Building a "Coachbuilt" Self Build?

[Minxy]

From talking to a kitchen designer I’m sure he (we had been drinking) told me that to make a perfect working kitchen the sink, hob and fridge should be a triangle.

Speaking as a trained designer, he isn't wrong
It's called the "working triangle" and is a basic in working kitchen design.

Yup, always used that principle when designing our kitchens at home, it amazes me how many times you see people who are having homes built for themselves, or massive rejigs to get a lovely big kitchen, and go and stick the fridge freezer a massive distance from the sink and cooker because it 'looks' better being out of the way ... totally nuts in real life. The worse one I saw recently was where they wanted an 'island', on the wall behind it was the cooker, on the island facing the cooker was the sink ... the fridge freezer was at the opposite end of the kitchen!

 

[Wissel]

Think the final design is almost done.

A few small changes to the layout.

The bathroom has been "flipped". This is just because it works better.

The front, full length bench has been reduced to just a dinette. This is for a few reasons:
1. I was concerned my dog or a nice/nephew would fall off the bench and down the stairs
2. I think lifting the middle section to access the cab area would be a pain
3. It means we can have a full height cupboard by the door for coats etc
4. Having the full height cupboard means a handrail can be fitted against it, instead of the kitchen (makes flip-top easier).

The main door has been widened to 70cm.

A window has been added to the bathroom.

Under the floor - A few more changes:

Just a few tweaks. The main change is the slide out kitchen (just a BBQ, sink and surface for outside use).

Then a few small tweaks to the roof:

I've altered the solar layout. This is mainly so the 3 panels in a row can be inclined easily in winter, without shadows. I did consider making the panels track, but can't work out a practical solution, so just angled will do. These will work via linear actuators and possibly slide off the van edge to reduce their height (wind). I've worked out a locking mechanism with safety features to ensure they are properly locked before driving - plus a motion sensor to detect high winds and auto-retract.

The 4th panel will be fixed flat (on a separate MPPT).

Another roof vent has been added to living area.


Now the big change. I'm pretty certain I won't be using pre-made composite panels for the shell. This is for a variety of reasons and instead I intend to build the shell myself.

The new body will be a 60mm thick aluminium skeleton (design is done using a mix of mechanical fixings and structural adhesives). This will house the insulation plus channels for elecs etc. The final skins (inside and out) will still be GRP (I can order sheets big enough to do the sides in one piece, then trim myself).

Where I am struggling is in the floors and roof where I want more structural strength. I don't want wood in any part of the shell for obvious reasons, but not sure what material would be best?

I've seen Tricoya (waterproof MDF with 50 year guarantee), but it's really pricey and possibly a bit heavy. There's also the idea of using a moulded GRP (similar to GRP decking, can be walked on unsupported 1350mm wide) but again it's pricey and possibly a bit bulky.

Before I start trawling the marine market, does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
David

 

[Jamesh]

I know it's wood but buffalo board /mdo is pretty durable stuff especially stuff made by wisa or bruynzeel.

Used for lorry floors and horseboxes etc. Outdoor signage (mdo) and kids playground equipment.

Cheers James

 

[Wissel]

I know it's wood but buffalo board /mdo is pretty durable stuff especially stuff made by wisa or bruynzeel.

Used for lorry floors and horseboxes etc. Outdoor signage (mdo) and kids playground equipment.

Cheers James

Thanks - I'll look into these

 

[A and B in the Huzzie]

Ambition Strikes made their own panels but they used rivets which is what I think caused their leaks. Everlanders did it a slightly different way but without side windows.

My current plan is a TIG welded aluminium exoskeleton which allows for ~8'*4' sheets of aluminium to be bonded to the underside of the skeleton using Sikaflex and 3M tape then sealed on the outside with sealant and roof flashing tape. The insulation panels will then be bonded to the aluminium skin followed by the final internal wall of GRP or plywood. This allows for the whole construction to be watertight and built without any specialist tools other than the TIG which I'll farm out.

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[Minxy]

Observations:

Kitchen - you have he hob near the door, from experience this can be a nuisance if it's a bit breezy and also when taking stuff in/out of the MH there's no where to easily rest stuff so if you have to use a lift-up flap for this it could then stop you getting in/out of the MH (been there, done this, got the tea stained t-shirt ! ).

Bathroom - if you change the sink unit from a flat front to a half moon (with a tambour door?) it shouldn't adversely impinge on the usability of the space and not only give a lot more storage but also a bigger sink and possibly some surface area to put your toiletries on - I think the sink you have drawn could be a bit small for your morning ablutions and you might end up head butting the wall!

Habitation door - I'd make it taller as even when open it would cut out the light and mean you can't easily see out to talk anyone outside without ducking or going down the steps, I'd also put a window in it so you can see out which will also allow more light in.

 

[Wissel]

Observations:

Kitchen - you have he hob near the door, from experience this can be a nuisance if it's a bit breezy and also when taking stuff in/out of the MH there's no where to easily rest stuff so if you have to use a lift-up flap for this it could then stop you getting in/out of the MH (been there, done this, got the tea stained t-shirt ! ).

Our hob now is in the same position and it's okay tbh
We will have about 80cm of worksurface beside the hob, but as you always need more, will have a flip up the other side as well.

Bathroom - if you change the sink unit from a flat front to a half moon (with a tambour door?) it shouldn't adversely impinge on the usability of the space and not only give a lot more storage but also a bigger sink and possibly some surface area to put your toiletries on - I think the sink you have drawn could be a bit small for your morning ablutions and you might end up head butting the wall!

Great point re the sink. I smash my head almost every morning at the moment
Will be such a luxury having a larger bathroom in the next van. No tambour door though. I hate them with a passion

Habitation door - I'd make it taller as even when open it would cut out the light and mean you can't easily see out to talk anyone outside without ducking or going down the steps, I'd also put a window in it so you can see out which will also allow more light in.

Good point on the hab door. I've altered the design (as with the bathroom sink). Probably no window though. Maybe.


I've re-drawn now and "think" this is about the final design. It's all to scale now, including the outside:

Hopefully, once built, it will look almost as good as the image below. The dimensions are the same, apart from mine will be about 1m shorter:

 

[Gromett]

Is the vehicle you are basing it on a tilt cab? If so please don't do a tilt delete. The tilt is so useful for maintenance and without it you may struggle with some garages willing to even look at it.

I had a friend who was an auto electrician and after doing one that had the tilt delete he refused any others after that.

 

[Wissel]

Is the vehicle you are basing it on a tilt cab? If so please don't do a tilt delete. The tilt is so useful for maintenance and without it you may struggle with some garages willing to even look at it.

I had a friend who was an auto electrician and after doing one that had the tilt delete he refused any others after that.

Totally agree

This was something I wondered about for a while, then I noticed this on the Concorde:

Looks like the overcab has a panel that moves to me, to allow the cab to tilt?

Whether it does or not, I'll definitely build this function in some how

 

[NopocketAces]

I am doing the same sort of conversion on my Merc 814 ex horsebox and have built the whole luton so it hinges at the top and is power by gas struts on the side - the cab swings quite high and I dont want to be removing everything from the luton just to get to service it ...

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[Wissel]

I am doing the same sort of conversion on my Merc 814 ex horsebox and have built the whole luton so it hinges at the top and is power by gas struts on the side - the cab swings quite high and I dont want to be removing everything from the luton just to get to service it ...

I've just blown up one of your images to see the structure. Looks a good solution

In mine I'm hoping to make the overcab bed lift, to give easier access down into the cab (otherwise the walk through will only be just over 1m high and a bit of a pain, but I could live with it). I don't have the structural drawings of the Iveco yet though, so not 100% the cab roof can be cut.

If it can be cut, then thinking I could make the overcab base removable from inside for servicing. I'll also need to measure the exact room needed to lift the cab before making a final decision. Must get to an Iveco dealer

Have you gotten any further with your build? Looking forward to seeing yours progress

 

[NopocketAces]

Got one more day of welding left then the build starts. The original horsebox luton had a bed on a tray that pulled back into the body as well as a lift up flap at the front. TBH it was a pain...heavy and unwieldy. The luton now hinges on a full length bar across the top- it will still be a pain but at least I dont have to start disassembling the contents. The top of the cab is quite high on full tilt!
The one thing I have not worked out how to do... and if I even need to, is to create a cut-through from the cab. I gave up on the idea at the start as it would be difficult to seal and not very high. I'd therefore given up on registering it as an MH but cannot see too much of an advantage to do that anyway over getting the VOSA certs for MOT - - if anyone else has any ideas on this I might have to change my plans! I have mounted a seatbelt post in the hab area for two belts on the bench seats although there is always a debate about seating in the hab area when on the move.

Anyway, if mine looks anything like what you intend to make yours look like, I will be a happy man!

 

[Minxy]

I have mounted a seatbelt post in the hab area for two belts on the bench seats although there is always a debate about seating in the hab area when on the move.

Only really safe to do if they are forward or backwards facing AND the seat base itself is strengthened so it wouldn't collapse.

 

[NopocketAces]

Yep all sorted - seatbelt post is mounted to the subframe through the floor in 100mm x 100mm RHS and fixed to the roofbars. Seats will be forward facing.. will bear in mind the strengthening of the seats.. thanks for that.... sorry to hijack the thread Wissel!!!!

 

[Minxy]

Yep all sorted - seatbelt post is mounted to the subframe through the floor in 100mm x 100mm RHS and fixed to the roofbars. Seats will be forward facing.. will bear in mind the strengthening of the seats.. thanks for that.... sorry to hijack the thread Wissel!!!!

You'll need to put it some sort of metal framework under the seats, not sure how it needs to be made but if you get the change to have a shuftie at existing MHs with rear seas you'll get an idea for how it's made.

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[Northernraider]

I am not suggesting that MORELO get everything right but it's what I am relatively familiar with so what I base my observations on, https://www.morelo-reisemobile.de/en/models/palace/technology

You will notice on the chassis layout that the tanks are biased towards the rear and the rearmost is the fresh water which you are most likely to be travelling with full.

You say that it will be a 7.5t vehicle which is great but again many of the German factories struggle to keep their vans useable at 7.5t on the truck chassis so don't go thinking that as it's on a truck chassis you can just chuck in as much weight as you want, our van is on the IVECO daily chassis so much lighter than a truck especially if it has a 6 cylinder in, when we got ours home brand new with a bit of water in the fresh tank (over the rear axle remember) the front axle weight was 2.6t so if you are looking for 1/3-2/3 weight distribution you will need to be careful.

This is a good point as i was surprised that even stripped to a bare shell as my vario is at present it still weighs over 4 tonne ... think its around 4.2 tonne at the minute which given thats 300kg heavier than my hymer in full ready to go mode is quite something.

 

[Jamesh]

4 season composite camper on 2019 Cut away chassis

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Might be of interest?

Cheers James

 

[Wissel]

4 season composite camper on 2019 Cut away chassis

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Might be of interest?

Cheers James

Like that James - cheers

Still can't make up my mind between this build or a bus conversion first. Won't be until the winter anyway, so plenty of time. For now I'll stay at the beach

 

[Dutch 68]

I am not suggesting that MORELO get everything right but it's what I am relatively familiar with so what I base my observations on, https://www.morelo-reisemobile.de/en/models/palace/technology

You will notice on the chassis layout that the tanks are biased towards the rear and the rearmost is the fresh water which you are most likely to be travelling with full.

You say that it will be a 7.5t vehicle which is great but again many of the German factories struggle to keep their vans useable at 7.5t on the truck chassis so don't go thinking that as it's on a truck chassis you can just chuck in as much weight as you want, our van is on the IVECO daily chassis so much lighter than a truck especially if it has a 6 cylinder in, when we got ours home brand new with a bit of water in the fresh tank (over the rear axle remember) the front axle weight was 2.6t so if you are looking for 1/3-2/3 weight distribution you will need to be careful.

Just get a 16 tonne chassis , you end up with about 7 ton to play with, that should do it

 

[Dutch 68]

Like that James - cheers

Still can't make up my mind between this build or a bus conversion first. Won't be until the winter anyway, so plenty of time. For now I'll stay at the beach

Have you started yet? Base vehicle decided on? Looking forward to this build!

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[mickb3275]

Like that James - cheers

Still can't make up my mind between this build or a bus conversion first. Won't be until the winter anyway, so plenty of time. For now I'll stay at the beach

I say bus, but I’m biased

 

[Dutch 68]

Any progress? Curious , looking forward to this , Mercedes’ Atego would be nice