Build quality question

[SueRL]

Morning all

For those of you familiar with these makes, what order would you put them in overall in terms of build quality and/or reliability? 1 - 6 with 1 being best.

Pilote
Chausson
Fleurette/Florium
Rollerteam
Bailey
Burstner

Thanks!

 

[The Ice Man]

Just read in the latest rag the MMM that the Trigano group drop in sales 17.4% and Thor who are ( Hymer, Corado, Elddis, Compass, Dethleffs, LMC, Liaka, Niesmann B, Sunlight, Explore. To name but a few) have seen massive falls in profits and specifically Hymer saw sales fall by 15% so it looks like the “Covid hoax” bubble has properly burst. That leaves a lot of unsold vans on forecourt’s.

 

[The Wino]

Thanks very much for your helpful response, nicholsong

My original post was short on detail admittedly

I’m in a position where we reluctantly have to trade in our current van (Rollerteam Pegaso 590) because I can’t manage the pull down over cab bed any more. We’ve had the van for under a year, and are very happy with it in every other regard.

We’re looking to replace it with a sub 7m van with lounge area, electric bed over (that drops to an easily accessible height without ladder) and a decent sized bathroom (I am of, shall we say, generous proportions myself ).

The other makes on my list all have vans that would fit the bill, but because I don’t have a wide knowledge of motorhomes in general, I was hoping to get a feel for the manufacturers’ reputations.

We’ve seen examples of most of the vans that would potentially work for us, but to be honest we’re scared of making a mistake and regretting our choice.

The ‘new’ van would definitely be second hand. We traded in an old Bessacarr, our first van, to get the Pegaso, and used money left to me by my parents to make up the difference. We don’t have a lot of spare cash to add to get the next one, so at a guess I’d say we’re looking at max forecourt price of £65k.

My other half is worried about buying an ‘older’ van, say 6+ years old, in case we’re just buying a load of problems, but from what I’ve read on this thread so far, it seems older vans may have been better quality…. so I’m really not sure of anything at all now

I've been on here for quite a few years. I suspect 6 years ago people who had 6 year old vans were saying how good the quality was compared to new ones. The same 6 year old ones are now apparently paragons of virtue in terms of quality! I think people are very much biased to what they have which is pretty understandable as that's why they own it but it's not an impartial review.
Sadly I suspect that looking at which makes tend to be better is a bit of a pointless exercise as ones of the same make vary so much from one to another even when new. Add into the mix a few years of use / abuse and it's going to get pretty much of a lucky dip. I think when I buy again it's going to be a private sale and buy one that's not changed owner very often has a good service record and an owner that for some reason I trust.

 

[mikash]

Just read in the latest rag the MMM that the Trigano group drop in sales 17.4% and Thor who are ( Hymer, Corado, Elddis, Compass, Dethleffs, LMC, Liaka, Niesmann B, Sunlight, Explore. To name but a few) have seen massive falls in profits and specifically Hymer saw sales fall by 15% so it looks like the “Covid hoax” bubble has properly burst. That leaves a lot of unsold vans on forecourt’s.

Wouldn't mind that at all tbh, being in the position of planning to buy in in near future with no van to trade. The market's been a bit weird, dealers almost fighting over used vans and the vans themselves racking up years and kilometers but seemingly not depreciating at all.

 

[ontheroadagain]

That leaves a lot of unsold vans on forecourt’s.

I like to keep an eye on what is for sale locally as we may change if the right motorhome turns up.
Some motorhomes I have been watching have been for sale for over a year and remain unsold.
But, when you talk to the dealers they are still looking silly money to change and to be honest most of them just don't appear to be that interested in doing a deal. I feel that they have got their money too easy over the past 5 years but I think that this year is going to be a wake up call for them.

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[Barriesimpson]

I had to repair a few Miele ovens, they only came with 2years warranty and at 8 years old Miele repairers didn't want to come out to them as spares were no longer available. Still repaired them using old school techniques rather than replacing parts.

This is what we have lost, 'technicians' these days have no idea how to repair anything - they simply throw parts at the problem.

 

[ontheroadagain]

but seemingly not depreciating at all.

Until you try to trade it in that is!
Our motorhome is 3 years old and new today would cost approx £78K.
We have been offered on average £53K for it against a new one.
One dealer offered £47K!

 

[bobnick]

The way things are going i'm going to be offering money to anyone wishing to take mine away.

 

[nicholsong]

Just read in the latest rag the MMM that the Trigano group drop in sales 17.4% and Thor who are ( Hymer, Corado, Elddis, Compass, Dethleffs, LMC, Liaka, Niesmann B, Sunlight, Explore. To name but a few) have seen massive falls in profits and specifically Hymer saw sales fall by 15% so it looks like the “Covid hoax” bubble has properly burst. That leaves a lot of unsold vans on forecourt’s.

Are those figures for UK, Europe or worldwide?

 

[Roby2008]

Are those figures for UK, Europe or worldwide?

Preisverfall in der Campingbranche: Irre Rabatte bei Wohnmobilen

Sind die Boomjahre der Caravaning-Branche vorbei? Sollte deshalb man genau jetzt zuschlagen und ein Campingfahrzeug kaufen?

www.promobil.de

I don't know about percentages but the market in Germany has been volatile of late, with Knaus and Hymer in the shit and 2 big rental companies and 1 dealer have entered insolvancy in the last months.

The link is from Promobil who are one of the big MH/Camping networks, there are some interesting deals out there.

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[nicholsong]

Interestingly the sale of new motorhomes in 2025 is up 30% over 2024. This suggests that buyers of new motorhomes are not feeling the increased prices! The consequence of the new demand is a huge increase in used motorhomes. That’s probably where the pressure will be felt in the coming months as the number of used motorhomes has also increased by 30% over the last couple of years. It will be interesting to see how the market moves over the next couple of years.

AND

Sorry got my years mixed up I should have said 2024 over 2023. Actually it’s 35%!!!

https://www.e-c-f.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/EU_CY2024.pdf

OR

Just read in the latest rag the MMM that the Trigano group drop in sales 17.4% and Thor who are ( Hymer, Corado, Elddis, Compass, Dethleffs, LMC, Liaka, Niesmann B, Sunlight, Explore. To name but a few) have seen massive falls in profits and specifically Hymer saw sales fall by 15% so it looks like the “Covid hoax” bubble has properly burst. That leaves a lot of unsold vans on forecourt’s.

TAKE YOUR CHOICE

 

[Coolcats]

Preisverfall in der Campingbranche: Irre Rabatte bei Wohnmobilen

Sind die Boomjahre der Caravaning-Branche vorbei? Sollte deshalb man genau jetzt zuschlagen und ein Campingfahrzeug kaufen?

www.promobil.de

I don't know about percentages but the market in Germany has been volatile of late, with Knaus and Hymer in the shit and 2 big rental companies and 1 dealer have entered insolvancy in the last months.

The link is from Promobil who are one of the big MH/Camping networks, there are some interesting deals out there.

The deals were inevitable, high demand over the last few years always lead to a slump in demand it the way of the world and those in sales are probably aware of the bath tub effect, at first the market seems limitless, the taps of production turned full on...then as the bath fills up the taps have to be turned down...less flow...less production. as long as a manufacturer can flex production according to demand they can deal with the issues as the bath is full, with little demand to replace the water seeping through the overflow. It's a simple analogy but one that a manufacturer of any goods should be aware of.

 

[Al n Val]

Over the past few months I know of at least 5/6 dealers who have gone bust so not sure where the upsurge in motorhome sales are coming from

 

[Coolcats]

Who remembers or uses a Filofax...back in the 90's you were no one unless you had one new digital products replaced them the market shrunk but you can still get them...along with an App https://filofax.com/pages/app who would have thought at the time thier makes would have been decimated.

 

[nicholsong]

Who remembers or uses a Filofax...back in the 90's you were no one unless you had one new digital products replaced them the market shrunk but you can still get them...along with an App https://filofax.com/pages/app who would have thought at the time thier makes would have been decimated.

I put mine down just before reading your post after writing in a new phone number. It is a useful hard-copy back-up in the event of electronic failures.

Mine dates back to 1983. If I thumb through it I can see how lucky I am to be still alive, compared with many of the entries.

It is also a history of my working life, part of which was contained in a phone chat today with my ex-boss at British Aiports consultancy department with whom I have maintained contact since we worked together in 1975-1977 - 50 bloody years!

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[Barchetta47]

AND


OR




TAKE YOUR CHOICE

Like you i think it makes odd reading when you just look at the headline numbers. However, I’m thinking they are both correct and perhaps that sounds odd but let me explain.

Last year new sales up 35% YonY.
New stock at dealers Jan to Jan up 350% (Autotrader) - New over £65k
Total stock at dealers Jan to Jan up 35% (Autotrader) - New and Used.

There’s only so much churn and as has been mentioned elsewhere the cost of upgrading has widened somewhat and putting people off. That plus the perceived/real fall off in quality.

As the Promobil article mentions there are massive discounts available, on Autotrader I’m assuming the advertised discounts, which are substantial will only be a starting point for negotiation in the coming months. Niche models and the top end Carthagos etc are bleeding big discounts which can only impact second hand values as mentions above re trade ins. We are in for exciting times

My assumption is that the manufacturers have built up an overcapacity in production which is beginning to filter through.

 

[Jonno1103]

The Thor/Hymer slump in Europe is due to Sunlight, Carado & Itrusco mainly but both Laika & LMC are flat too. They are also struggling with their C Class in the US. Echelon sales in Canada have fallen plus they're struggling to attract buyers for their all wheel drive Sprinters.

For Trigano, Tribute no longer exists so no income stream, Sun Living have seen a significant drop as has Auto Sleeper, Mobilvetta & Challenger. Word is that the Randger brand of campers & van conversions is to be absorbed in to Chausson.

Buyers are looking at Roller Team rather than the rebadged and significantly more expensive Mobilvetta and it's the same issue with Challenger - Chausson sales are increasing.

Model saturation is a key factor. Base vehicle costs are huge. Owner age is also in play. The final issue is finance, interest rates are prohibitive.

Here in the UK Elddis sales are strong due to the dealer specials they produce so too are Auto Trail as they are very active in rationalising their offer. In the last 5 years both Tracker & Apache have gone, 'Imala' only has a choice of 4, there are now only 3 Frontier models and from this year Grande Frontier has been culled to only the GF80 & GF88. Excel, F Line & PVC's are very popular and represent the bulk of their sales.

 

[Coolcats]

I put mine down just before reading your post after writing in a new phone number. It is a useful hard-copy back-up in the event of electronic failures.

Mine dates back to 1983. If I thumb through it I can see how lucky I am to be still alive, compared with many of the entries.

It is also a history of my working life, part of which was contained in a phone chat today with my ex-boss at British Aiports consultancy department with whom I have maintained contact since we worked together in 1975-1977 - 50 bloody years!

Top Man

There are not many in this digital age who will be able to recall what you have, clearly some still use filofax, digital has a place but nothing like pen and paper...a mate has dumped all his digital diaries now he has stopped work and reverted to a good old fashioned Sasco wall Planner....no excuses for the family not to see what's going on.

 

[Coolcats]

The Thor/Hymer slump in Europe is due to Sunlight, Carado & Itrusco mainly but both Laika & LMC are flat too. They are also struggling with their C Class in the US. Echelon sales in Canada have fallen plus they're struggling to attract buyers for their all wheel drive Sprinters.

For Trigano, Tribute no longer exists so no income stream, Sun Living have seen a significant drop as has Auto Sleeper, Mobilvetta & Challenger. Word is that the Randger brand of campers & van conversions is to be absorbed in to Chausson.

Buyers are looking at Roller Team rather than the rebadged and significantly more expensive Mobilvetta and it's the same issue with Challenger - Chausson sales are increasing.

Model saturation is a key factor. Base vehicle costs are huge. Owner age is also in play. The final issue is finance, interest rates are prohibitive.

Here in the UK Elddis sales are strong due to the dealer specials they produce so too are Auto Trail as they are very active in rationalising their offer. In the last 5 years both Tracker & Apache have gone, 'Imala' only has a choice of 4, there are now only 3 Frontier models and from this year Grande Frontier has been culled to only the GF80 & GF88. Excel, F Line & PVC's are very popular and represent the bulk of their sales.

But But But Sunlight and Carado are Part of the Hymer Group

 

[VXman]

Had 2 Burstners so 1 from me.Wouldnt consider a Bailey or Rollerteam.

How many other makes have you had?. I have only had one Burstner (from new) and not impressed with build quality. However having not had anything else maybe the others are worse (i cannot imagine how??? Maybe they fall into pieces when driven?)

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[GMLS]

How many other makes have you had?. I have only had one Burstner (from new) and not impressed with build quality. However having not had anything else maybe the others are worse (i cannot imagine how??? Maybe they fall into pieces when driven?)

2 Burstners, 1 Autotrail (Trigano group as Rollerteam) a VW and now a Rapidnly the German and French brands have been faultless but there in lies the issue as there is no consistency and we all have different experiences making a considered fact based decision a challenge.

 

[Jonno1103]

But But But Sunlight and Carado are Part of the Hymer Group

?????

 

[Saucer]

I’ve looked at vans that I’ve saved on Autotrader and they do seem to be hanging around a long while. I suspect trade is a lot slower than some would have us believe,