Best tyres: front or back?

[stuartholmes]

So knowing how many people love a tyre question, I thought I'd contribute a new one...

(Well I hope it's new, sorry if it's already covered somewhere!)

So the 'new to us' panel van conversion needs two new tyres. Ideally I'd get four but the fronts are in need whereas the rears have lots & lots of life left.

Currently they are all 'campervan tyres' but I've deduced from other questions that 'cross-season' tyres are going to be best for my needs - the vehicle is in use all year but predominantly in summer & in GB and I want to work away from the campervan types fitted because of the reputation for harder ride.

So while only changing two, would I expect to maximise the benefit of improved ride comfort by putting the new cross-seasons on the front or the back? Or would I not feel the benefit at all until I get all four?

Or do you think I should just get a Citroen DS23 & tow a caravan?

 

[Tio64]

I don't think that sedate cruise around a test pan proves anything. Why didn't they do the same with new on the front?
What was the condition and tread of the front tyres?

Another video here:

 

[dash300]

Another video here:

Thanks for taking the time to post the additional info. However I am still not convinced. All very sedate and controllable in that clip. The other advantages of best tread on the front for front driving wheels as others have mentioned still out weigh the rear tail slide out possibility for my camper.. If driving along a motorway in heavy rain I want the front wheels to have the best tread to clear the water before I get a front wheel aquaplane.

 

[stuartholmes]

The Uniroyal advice is here:

Good tyres on front or rear: Rotation and exchange according to plan

Changing and rotating tyres: Read on to find out why tyre rotation is important. And whether the good tyres should go on the front or rear.

www.uniroyal-tyres.com

EdenTyres advice (including a bit more explanation) is here:

Should I Fit New Tyres to the Front or Rear? - Eden Tyres & Servicing

If it’s time to replace one or more of the tyres on your vehicle, you may be wondering where they should be fitted. There are debates about whether tyres should be fitted to the front or rear of the vehicle – let’s take a look at which is the right choice, and why.

www.edentyres.com

They both say best tyres should be on the back, but with a rotation regime to even out the tread depths as much as possible.

But Michelin tests are reported with more nuanced tests of different permutations in different situations which in some ways is contradictory to all the earlier professional advice (as opposed to user opinion) ... According to this it depends what kind of collision you're planning to not have. see here:

Should Your Better Pair of Tyres Go to the Front or Back of the Car? | Oponeo.co.uk

Where should you mount your better tyres, on the front or rear axle? Check out our article and learn about the advantages and disadvantages depending on the type of drive.

www.oponeo.co.uk

So which would you rather avoid?

(And thank you to the few who read the bit of the original question where I indicated this was actually about ride comfort more than collision avoidance, which I suppose is after all a bit more important.)

Best plan is probably to get four new tyres four times a year.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I learned to drive on a rear wheel drive car which would break grip at the rear on wet roundabouts.
Loads of innocent fun.
So I have never had concerns about the back sliding.
Not that I cane the MH round roundabouts!
For a Motor Home I would put the best tyres on the front because the main time that you need all the grip you can get is on wet grass and mud.
Not much point in being very stable with your new grippy rear tyres if the front wheels are just spinning away.

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[Tio64]

Results from independent testing (Oponeo).

CONCLUSION:

There is no ideal solution for tyres that differ significantly in performance either, but just like for combinations 1 and 2, it is advisable to fit better tyres on the rear axle. Front-mounted tyres in better condition significantly reduce the stability and handling in emergency situations and in wet weather. To reduce the risk of skidding when maneuvering suddenly, it is recommended that the better tyres should be fitted to the rear axle despite the deterioration in braking distance.

NOTE:

Also remember to regularly rotate tyres between the axles every 10,000 km, to keep all tyres in a similar condition and avoid uneven tyre wear (only when the starting point was 4 identical tyres).

Results in terms of individual performance:

Aquaplaning – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Wet braking with ABS – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Cornering on a wet surface – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Wet steering without ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE

Wet handling with ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE with large tyre difference / BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE with small tyre difference

Changing lanes on wet roads without ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE

ABS dry braking – BETTER TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE (the differences in the results were not big)

Michelin test​

The test was carried out using a front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive and four-wheel drive car

Is that a tyre supplier contradicting a tyre manufacturer

Thanks for taking the time to post the additional info. However I am still not convinced. All very sedate and controllable in that clip. The other advantages of best tread on the front for front driving wheels as others have mentioned still out weigh the rear tail slide out possibility for my camper.. If driving along a motorway in heavy rain I want the front wheels to have the best tread to clear the water before I get a front wheel aquaplane.

Fair enough, but if Michelin can't persuade you, then in all fairness, I don't think anyone could . The 'others' on this thread you refer to are the same as you and me, ordinary punters, obviously none of us make or test tyres, we haven't done incalculable amounts of tyre testing going back to the beginning of the 20th century. The others haven't explained why they would oppose the advice given by the tyre manufacturers.
I'm something of a petrolhead and this topic often comes up on car forums, and through those threads I've learned that every single tyre manufacturer says put new tyres on the rear (unless it has changed since I Iast looked).
The quote above from Oponeo is interesting. I've never heard of them, they seem to be a tyre supplier not manufacturer, the quote says they used Michelin tyres in their test, and appear to contradict Michelin's own advice.
For myself, I just can't think of any possible way I could know any better or different to those who make the tyres. I take the point of difficulties on a muddy field, but I'd still prefer that over any difficulties on the open road, miles away from home.
Having said all this, the nature of the beast re our motorhomes suggest we're never ever going to be anywhere near any limits out on the open road. Has anyone ever seen or heard any story of a motorhome losing grip and/or control? (I suspect punctures on old tyres might be a bigger issue. And I shall still be following best advice myself anyway re where to put new tyres. Unless I can find out it's different for vans or light commercials).

 

[dash300]

Is that a tyre supplier contradicting a tyre manufacturer

Fair enough, but if Michelin can't persuade you, then in all fairness, I don't think anyone could . The 'others' on this thread you refer to are the same as you and me, ordinary punters, obviously none of us make or test tyres, we haven't done incalculable amounts of tyre testing going back to the beginning of the 20th century. The others haven't explained why they would oppose the advice given by the tyre manufacturers.
I'm something of a petrolhead and this topic often comes up on car forums, and through those threads I've learned that every single tyre manufacturer says put new tyres on the rear (unless it has changed since I Iast looked).
The quote above from Oponeo is interesting. I've never heard of them, they seem to be a tyre supplier not manufacturer, the quote says they used Michelin tyres in their test, and appear to contradict Michelin's own advice.
For myself, I just can't think of any possible way I could know any better or different to those who make the tyres. I take the point of difficulties on a muddy field, but I'd still prefer that over any difficulties on the open road, miles away from home.
Having said all this, the nature of the beast re our motorhomes suggest we're never ever going to be anywhere near any limits out on the open road. Has anyone ever seen or heard any story of a motorhome losing grip and/or control? (I suspect punctures on old tyres might be a bigger issue. And I shall still be following best advice myself anyway re where to put new tyres. Unless I can find out it's different for vans or light commercials).

Fair comment; it's about a jugement of risk vs advantage. As a low speed tyre user rear breakaway for my camper is going to be less likely than performance vehicles. Tyre manufacturers will naturally err on the side of the riskiest performance users.

 

[Apacheman]

Most motorhomes I see seem to be based on Fiat or Peugeot cabs which are front wheel drive. Let’s say you fit 4 new tyres. After a distance the front will have less tread than the rear due to wear from pulling the vehicle. Drive axle tyres wear more quickly. Does anyone on here constantly change tyres over from front to rear and back again depending on which ones have most tread? And if placing them is for comfort as in the original post then none of us would buy camping tyres which by stiff wall and high pressure design seem to have a harsher ride.

 

[The Ice Man]

Seems as if most of the posts and videos are all about car handling on skid pans etc. motorhomes by their very nature are different beast they are generally classed as being heavily loaded from the moment they are built.
So comparison with cars on skid pans etc seems a bit off the mark, the fact that most Motorhomes are tail end heavy would indicate that it’s best to have the best tyres on the front.

 

[stuartholmes]

Seems as if most of the posts and videos are all about car handling on skid pans etc. motorhomes by their very nature are different beast they are generally classed as being heavily loaded from the moment they are built.
So comparison with cars on skid pans etc seems a bit off the mark, the fact that most Motorhomes are tail end heavy would indicate that it’s best to have the best tyres on the front.

I do appreciate that motorhomes & campervans have different needs than cars but would have thought the heavier rear end suggests it's even more important to not encourage it to start slipping out of line, hence it's where the grippiest tyres should be.

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[prenteye]

I have an answer. Lots of us take our pride and joy to Mildenhall Stadium and have a race.

That’ll sort it.

Nothing to drive home with.

Seriously though I think the answers are with us. Have good tyres all round, rotate them front to rear periodically, inspect them regularly and drive carefully.

 

[Rozzer]

Probably a good place to end this interesting debate. I have always fitted new tyres to the front driven wheels for the best traction and steering in wet conditions. I’d be more concerned about rear wheel breakaway if I drove faster I guess or had rear wheel drive, it is a motorhome…

 

[Apacheman]

I have an answer. Lots of us take our pride and joy to Mildenhall Stadium and have a race.

That’ll sort it.

Nothing to drive home with.

Seriously though I think the answers are with us. Have good tyres all round, rotate them front to rear periodically, inspect them regularly and drive carefully.

Good last point. At what depth of tread are tyres not good? Just changed my fronts at 3mm. Potentially another 1000-1500 miles in them before down to 1.6mm or the marker wear bar.

 

[SpeedyDux]

I always thought the best tyres go on the back to prevent the back end coming around in wet or slippery conditions.

If you ever had a car try to swap ends under wet braking when the newest tyres are on the front you would become a believer in this mantra.

 

[Minxy]

Interesting reading this summary form Oponeo after their various tests ... our pair of part-used ones we got recently are going on the front.

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[dash300]

Interesting reading this summary form Oponeo after their various tests ... our pair of part-used ones we got recently are going on the front.

View attachment 793781

For me that's a thumbs up for new to the front.

 

[stuartholmes]

Probably a good place to end this interesting debate. I have always fitted new tyres to the front driven wheels for the best traction and steering in wet conditions. I’d be more concerned about rear wheel breakaway if I drove faster I guess or had rear wheel drive, it is a motorhome…

Did you actually think this debate was about to end??

 

[dash300]

The front rear tyre thread is an old one trotted out regularly on many forums. If you ask for an opinion thats what you get.

 

[Coolcats]

Jeepers just buy 4 tyres and stop mucking about

 

[Tio64]

For me that's a thumbs up for new to the front.

Fair enough, but I find it interesting that people want to follow the advice of one test by a tyre supplier, who contradict advice by (to the very best of my knowledge) every single tyre manufacturer, who, without a hint of exaggeration are likely to have done a bazillion tests, going right back to the dawn of motoring.
And then just to muddy the waters further, 4 years ago Oponeo were saying different. Hey ho.

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[stuartholmes]

With the above discussion & opinions in mind, I wrote to Michelin asking whether their 'best tyres on the back' advice also applies to campervans & mobile homes with front wheel drive.

They replied:
Dear Stuart Holmes,
Thank you for contacting Michelin customer service.

Michelin strongly recommend fitt 4 four new tyres for the same tyre models. In terms of safety and handling, it is crucial that the new tyres are always mounted on the rear axle.

For additional information please contact us by email: contact@tc.michelin.eu, on our website http://www.michelin.co.uk/ by filling in our contact form www.michelin.co.uk/assistance or by phone, Mon-Fri 09:00-18:00, 08000 318 802

Michelin is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence.

Kind regards,
Gábor Gömöri, your Michelin adviser.

Just for info.... ☺

 

[dunnah01]

Surely no matter which axle the new tyres are fitted on a FWD will soon have more grip at the rear as the fronts wear out much quicker.
Anyway, just to confuse things further. I want to change 2 worn camper tyres on the front of my 4.25T moho for van tyres. I'm not binning the 2 good rear tyres but do they go at the front with the new van tyres at the rear to improve comfort or do I just put the van tyres on the front and keep crashing along on the Agilis at the rear until the next change is due.

 

[Coolcats]

Surely no matter which axle the new tyres are fitted on a FWD will soon have more grip at the rear as the fronts wear out much quicker.

Must learn to do more drifting that sorts the wear rate out more evenly

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Surely no matter which axle the new tyres are fitted on a FWD will soon have more grip at the rear as the fronts wear out much quicker.
Anyway, just to confuse things further. I want to change 2 worn camper tyres on the front of my 4.25T moho for van tyres. I'm not binning the 2 good rear tyres but do they go at the front with the new van tyres at the rear to improve comfort or do I just put the van tyres on the front and keep crashing along on the Agilis at the rear until the next change is due.

Same tyres on the same axle is allowed, however, to stay legal you'll probably need to carry two spares, one for each axle. Or take a chance on none, but face a wait in the event of a major tyre blow out whilst a replacement is found for the blown tyre, again possibly requiring two tyres of the same pattern to keep that axle legal

 

[stuartholmes]

Same tyres on the same axle is allowed, however, to stay legal you'll probably need to carry two spares, one for each axle. Or take a chance on none, but face a wait in the event of a major tyre blow out whilst a replacement is found for the blown tyre, again possibly requiring two tyres of the same pattern to keep that axle legal

Anybody hanker after the days when wheels were made of wood & 'tyres' of metal??

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Anybody hanker after the days when wheels were made of wood & 'tyres' of metal??

Those wheels could be the reason people didn't bother getting teeth fillings, dam things would only last one coach trip !!
What sort of wood was best, and which grade of metal best suited continental roads
Mike

 

[dash300]

I think this one has run it's course!