Best tyres: front or back?

[stuartholmes]

So knowing how many people love a tyre question, I thought I'd contribute a new one...

(Well I hope it's new, sorry if it's already covered somewhere!)

So the 'new to us' panel van conversion needs two new tyres. Ideally I'd get four but the fronts are in need whereas the rears have lots & lots of life left.

Currently they are all 'campervan tyres' but I've deduced from other questions that 'cross-season' tyres are going to be best for my needs - the vehicle is in use all year but predominantly in summer & in GB and I want to work away from the campervan types fitted because of the reputation for harder ride.

So while only changing two, would I expect to maximise the benefit of improved ride comfort by putting the new cross-seasons on the front or the back? Or would I not feel the benefit at all until I get all four?

Or do you think I should just get a Citroen DS23 & tow a caravan?

 

[dash300]

What about whitewall tyres?

 

[stuartholmes]

Just buy 4

Been coming to that conclusion!!! Just off to get prices

 

[Coolcats]

Not true. A rear end breakaway can be controlled but requires considerable skill. A front end slide normally only requires lifting off the throttle to regain some grip and is instinctive. All road going cars understeer by design for this reason. For track use serious understeer loses speed in corners and cars intended to be driven fast are modified to reduce it. The ideal is neutral handling where grip is lost at both ends at the same time.

How to control a skid​

its an interesting and debatable subject, and it always 'depends' on how the skid started and what caused it, your then left with a drivers interpretation, the state of mind and the skill level of the driver, my little track car for example has around 200bhp and a very very light flywheel which means if you just come off the power in the wet your guaranteed to spin (aka F1). I recall one incident when the front slid I came off the throttle and then I span, seasoned on lookers suggested that a more experienced driver 'may' have caught it by gentle application of the throttle and 'turning in', on reflection I think they were right but at that time I didn't have the experience and who knows where my mind may be if it happens again......all I know is I was and don't want to be a passenger to Doom again (once control is lost a driver is just a passenger)

Skids and spins are all subjective the first thing that I saw in my head in that instance was and illuminated banner that said F**K (yes its true the mind can conjure up images in a stressful situation).

 

[stuartholmes]

Too much speed by the driver on the road conditions
Too much braking by the driver on the road conditions
Too much steering by the driver on the road conditions
Any 2 of the above will sort out skidding.

I would have thought the front as well, for grip in turning and driving, but difficult to disagree with evidence of stuartholmes

Thank for the namecheck but it's not my evidence, I just quoted!!!
Shoutout to Northernraider for another excellent quote.

It's interesting how much controversy this itty bitty question prompted, but I suppose it shouldn't be surprising because I would also have gone with 'best tyres on the driven wheels' (whether that's front or back) due to muddy fields... but then I watched some of the videos of tests which clearly show that's potentially very unsafe. I'd much rather plough straight on than lose the back end.
Also, nobody here mentioned but once your braking begins to take effect (assuming a bit of aquaplaning is underway), the front will acquire more downward force & help compensate for the poorer tread depth. I think!

Not that any of us are going to drive like crazy in our motorhomes but the same can't be said of all other road users!

Anyway, I was originally not asking from the point of view of which is best for wet braking but which is more comfortable for passengers if two tyres are stiffer than the other two.
I have my answer, thank you everyone.

Now play nicely!!

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[tonyidle]

How to control a skid​

its an interesting and debatable subject, and it always 'depends' on how the skid started and what caused it, your then left with a drivers interpretation, the state of mind and the skill level of the driver, my little track car for example has around 200bhp and a very very light flywheel which means if you just come off the power in the wet your guaranteed to spin (aka F1). I recall one incident when the front slid I came off the throttle and then I span, seasoned on lookers suggested that a more experienced driver 'may' have caught it by gentle application of the throttle and 'turning in', on reflection I think they were right but at that time I didn't have the experience and who knows where my mind may be if it happens again......all I know is I was and don't want to be a passenger to Doom again (once control is lost a driver is just a passenger)

Skids and spins are all subjective the first thing that I saw in my head in that instance was and illuminated banner that said F**K (yes its true the mind can conjure up images in a stressful situation).

The original Mini was prone to lift-off oversteer. A lot of weight suddenly transferred and a short wheelbase car. Incredibly hard to catch if it occurred.

 

[Northernraider]

Been coming to that conclusion!!! Just off to get prices

If I was changing from camper tyres to van tyres or cross climates etc then I would fit 4 new ones.

 

[Dorset Diver]

Always new on the rear . I had opportunity to try it out on the track in the videos but in a Volvo XC70 with the full stability systems engaged.

See: Broken Link Removed or Broken Link Removed

 

[VXman]

1. On my front drive car (which is pretty powerful at 250bhp) I like the good tyres up front to grip under hard acceleration and pulling around those roundabouts or tight corners on full throttle. (Secretly I am a boy racer!) It's difficult to lose the rear on a front drive car without stupid amounts off lift off while cornering which is not a sensible way to drive anyway.

2. On my powerful rear drive mid engined VX220 it's best tyres on the rear at all times!

2. On my motorhome I have just put the worn fronts onto the rear to even out the wear so I can replace all 4 at once when the rears equal the fronts. Also, the front needs good tyres trying to haul all that weight uphills. I'm not worried about the rear losing grip on the motorhome as I don't tend to drive it anywhere near the limit of grip or everything will fall out of the cupboards!

 

[stuartholmes]

The original Mini was prone to lift-off oversteer. A lot of weight suddenly transferred and a short wheelbase car. Incredibly hard to catch if it occurred.

I even got that in a Talbot Horizon, I think it was designed-in but the back end stayed solidly in place - but the Mini was more fun!

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[L' Hobo]

Sorry, can't agree. See post #9!

Best tyres on the steering wheels, especially if FWD, you can steer yourself out of a slide and if your rears break away, your going too fast for the conditions. (Or you could practice hand brake turns)

 

[dunnah01]

One on front right, the other on rear right and then only go round left hand bends. See, everything has a solution

 

[Jev88]

Results from independent testing (Oponeo).

CONCLUSION:

There is no ideal solution for tyres that differ significantly in performance either, but just like for combinations 1 and 2, it is advisable to fit better tyres on the rear axle. Front-mounted tyres in better condition significantly reduce the stability and handling in emergency situations and in wet weather. To reduce the risk of skidding when maneuvering suddenly, it is recommended that the better tyres should be fitted to the rear axle despite the deterioration in braking distance.

NOTE:

Also remember to regularly rotate tyres between the axles every 10,000 km, to keep all tyres in a similar condition and avoid uneven tyre wear (only when the starting point was 4 identical tyres).

Results in terms of individual performance:

Aquaplaning – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Wet braking with ABS – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Cornering on a wet surface – BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE

Wet steering without ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE

Wet handling with ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE with large tyre difference / BEST TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE with small tyre difference

Changing lanes on wet roads without ESP – BEST TYRES ON THE REAR AXLE

ABS dry braking – BETTER TYRES ON THE FRONT AXLE (the differences in the results were not big)

Michelin test​

The test was carried out using a front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive and four-wheel drive car

 

[tonyidle]

Motorhomes, in particular A class and coach built, are a special case. A relatively high CofG combined with a lot of weight over the rear axle make them easily unsettled by rear tyre failure. I believe that's where the advice to put new on the rear comes from.

 

[A S R]

Stick them on the front and go find a wet secluded roundabout. Get some practice at broad siding. Make sure to clear your shelves first.

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[pagey]

when i had my tvr the back end of it was always trying to overtake the front if it was damp or wet i would not have it any other way so much fun my rs 2000 was the same both cars had new tyres on them i used to love a roundabout

 

[GBM]

So knowing how many people love a tyre question, I thought I'd contribute a new one...

(Well I hope it's new, sorry if it's already covered somewhere!)

So the 'new to us' panel van conversion needs two new tyres. Ideally I'd get four but the fronts are in need whereas the rears have lots & lots of life left.

Currently they are all 'campervan tyres' but I've deduced from other questions that 'cross-season' tyres are going to be best for my needs - the vehicle is in use all year but predominantly in summer & in GB and I want to work away from the campervan types fitted because of the reputation for harder ride.

So while only changing two, would I expect to maximise the benefit of improved ride comfort by putting the new cross-seasons on the front or the back? Or would I not feel the benefit at all until I get all four?

Or do you think I should just get a Citroen DS23 & tow a caravan?

Stuart,
I'd always advocate putting the best tyres on the front, because they do the steering and a greater chunk of the braking, however empirically I would say you benefit most from putting the quieter/smoother ones on the back, as it's those tyres that are under the caravan floor where you get more resonance and rattles from furniture. So if two existing tyres are perfectly fine tread-wise and you're buying better quality ones to reduce noise, I'd be tempted in this case to put the new ones on the back.

 

[prenteye]

Well I don’t know now!

Our van had four Conti four season tyres on. Been on about seven years. Fronts were worn down and rears have double the tread.

Just put Michelin cross climates on the front and will probably change the back ones once the bank balance allows.

I’ve had experience driving on snow with both fwd and rwd. My main go to was to keep well clear of other motorists. I’d overtake them using fresh snow rather than join a queue.

Then again I’ve lost a Ford Taunus on a bend in the snow. Nice little wallop. Good job it wasn’t mine.

I drives slower these days but Mrs P can do a mean aqua plane at 80 in the rain. I did suggest that she eased off ever so gently.

Take care folks

Even if we remain confused.

 

[sylvester1954]

So knowing how many people love a tyre question, I thought I'd contribute a new one...

(Well I hope it's new, sorry if it's already covered somewhere!)

So the 'new to us' panel van conversion needs two new tyres. Ideally I'd get four but the fronts are in need whereas the rears have lots & lots of life left.

Currently they are all 'campervan tyres' but I've deduced from other questions that 'cross-season' tyres are going to be best for my needs - the vehicle is in use all year but predominantly in summer & in GB and I want to work away from the campervan types fitted because of the reputation for harder ride.

So while only changing two, would I expect to maximise the benefit of improved ride comfort by putting the new cross-seasons on the front or the back? Or would I not feel the benefit at all until I get all four?

Or do you think I should just get a Citroen DS23 & tow a caravan?

l had this discussion only last week with my local garage and they were quite adamant that on a front wheel drive you need best tyres on the front as those two tyres do all the work as opposed to the rear tyres.

 

[Scubagas]

Always, but always put the best tyres on the rear. If you loose control of the front end due to road conditions or a tyre blow out, you have some chance of recovering from it. If you loose the back end, then just pray!
Many tyre manufacturers have useful videos available to watch demonstrating just that. It is an old wives tail about have new tyres on the front for grip with a front wheel drive. See the attached youtube video by Michelin.

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[dash300]

Always, but always put the best tyres on the rear. If you loose control of the front end due to road conditions or a tyre blow out, you have some chance of recovering from it. If you loose the back end, then just pray!
Many tyre manufacturers have useful videos available to watch demonstrating just that. It is an old wives tail about have new tyres on the front for grip with a front wheel drive. See the attached youtube video by Michelin.

I don't think that sedate cruise around a test pan proves anything. Why didn't they do the same with new on the front?
What was the condition and tread of the front tyres?

 

[Captain Birdseye]

I have always had an issue with the new tyres on the rear ruling in as far as the front leading tyres are the primary water dispersers in whose track the rear tyres follow. So the front tyres need the benefit of more tread to disperse water for the rears. In addition if front wheel drive I would prefer the best tread on the driving wheels not the trailing wheels. Am I alone in this view?

and the front does most of the braking and all the steering

 

[tonyidle]

and the front does most of the braking and all the steering

There's no argument with any of that. But when it all goes wrong loss of front end control is easier to recover than the same at the rear. There is a reason that all, without exception, cars sold the the general public understeer by design.

 

[Outofthefire]

Every time i've messed about in the snow and the front end has let go i've rarely been able to recover it in a decent way, but when I used to drive a 7.5 ton wagon delivering milk, I was on the slip road out of York onto the A64 one boxing day morning. The slip roads are long sweeping curves, luckily being boxing day there was hardly any traffic, I got half way round the curve and the back end let go on ice I steered into it and drifted it for quite a way before it straightened itself up. In a front wheel drive motorhome or car i'd much rather the backend step out than the front.

 

[TR5]

We have a FWD Fiat and put the best tyres on the front as they are the drive wheels so need the best grip IMV, if you do get a bit of a rear end squiggle having the better grip tyres on the front will allow you to pull it out of it, if they re on the rear you don't stand a chance.

Also I wouldn't mix tyre types either, either stick to the same as you have already or replace the lot including your spare, I wouldn't used different tyres on the car never mind my MH.

Are you aware that some tyres are directional, such as the Michelin Cross Country ones? It means if you have one as a spare s*ds law will say you'll have a puncture and need it the other way round!

As for cross season (I assume you mean 4 season?), if you don't do any real driving in winter conditions with snow etc than summer tyres should be suitable - that's what we have and we go away over winter and just choose routes that don't require 4 season ones which isn't difficult.

Directional tyres can be used, going the opposite direction. The only advice is to limit your speed to 50mph, and get the tyre turned asap. At least it would get you to a tyre fitter that day, or the next, without being stuck.

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[Apacheman]

Lots of interesting points of view. I personally put new on the rear and the old on the front. (Front wheel drive and matching pairs). Means only changing 2 at a time so spreading the cost. That said if I were moving to a pair of Cross Climates I’d put them on the front (drive axel) to start with.

 

[bigtwin]

That said if I were moving to a pair of Cross Climates I’d put them on the front (drive axel) to start with.

That’s interesting. what’s your rationale for that?

Ian

 

[prenteye]

I have come to a conclusion for me at least that provided the rear tyres are good I am content to have the new ones on the front.

I guess the thing about rear sliding is that if front tyres grip better you won’t notice until too late.

As it is I like having some decent tread up front so I don’t get stuck in a field.

Hey ho

 

[Apacheman]

That’s interesting. what’s your rationale for that?

Ian

If I was buying them it would be for driving in ice or snow. Designed to give better grip for those conditions so would want them on the drive axel if I was only buying a pair.

 

[MGSMerc.]

Nobody has yet considered the science behind the best tyre on front or rear. Any loss of grip, front or rear, on the road is bad news, a blow out on a tyre even worse.
When a blow out occurs the diameter of the wheel in question reduces instantly and the rim speed in contact with the road suddenly increases causing the wheels on the axle whether front or rear to take on a new direction.
Steering can save the front but not the rear.
Try it on a model car, take a tyre of the rim and see what happens to the direction of the model when pushed quickly in a straight line!

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Is any one able to point to a dictate from any tyre company or fitting company instructing " always fit new tyres to the front axle if only changing a pair of tyres" ? challenging what I noted in the "Quick fit " best practice guide " fit new tyres to the rear axle, whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive". It would be nice to know assuredly the industry consensus so as we could all do the same, whatever that was.
Mike.