BBC Watchdog: Swift Panoramic Roof Flaws

[Suzukikettle]

Swift on BBC Watchdog regarding faults with the panoramic roofs flying off while driving

 

[Moto GBR]

Yip, I was one of the unfortunate ones to have this happen. Swift are doing everything they can to not own up to there being a fault with them. I wonder what the next course of action will be?

TA Steve

 

[andyelbac]

Excuse my ignorance....but what's a pan roof?

 

[carolyn]

Excuse my ignorance....but what's a pan roof?

Van roof I believe rather than a type of van roof. Just a typo I expect. I do it all the time. I might be wrong of course.

 

[Lenny333]

Excuse my ignorance....but what's a pan roof?

It’s short for panoramic roof… it’s a large sunroof basically.

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[carolyn]

It’s short for panoramic roof… it’s a large sunroof basically.

Ah Thankyou , that makes sense. I know the ones you mean now as well . I was assuming it was just a normal heki coming off a van roof. Gosh that’s horrendous. The poor OP.

 

[Suzukikettle]

Excuse my ignorance....but what's a pan roof?

Its an abbreviation for panoramic roof as used in the motor industry

 

[SpeedyDux]

Quite shocking. I am often overtaken on motorways by newer Swifts at Warp Factor 9 so they can't be doing themselves any favours by being in such a hurry. I haven't seen any lose their pan roofs (yet). Their diesel mpg numbers must be awesome! (in a bad way)

 

[Geistguy]

As ever the presentation on the BBC was rubbish but did seem to highlight a bad design fault in the Swift panoramic roofs. Swift's response was not to drive with the roof open but the owners who were interviewed denied having done this.

 

[Moto GBR]

I drove from the North East down to the tunnel then onto Benidorm. On my return we were in France when the Skylight decided it wanted to stay in France without any warning.

The roof had not been open at any time!!!

TA Steve

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[Puddleduck]

We had similar with a Chausson pan window when it was parked up on a windy day and the window was firmly shut and "secured" with the catches all firmly in place. We had to pay for a new window which was a very different design and had several more catches.

I wonder if Swift have bought any old design stock (tongue very much in cheek). When looking at new vans checking any play on closed windows is one of the checks we now do.

 

[TinaLes]

This problem with the large plastic panoramic roof which is Black with Swift written on it started way back in 2016/17. Many people reported that they heard a rumbling sound at speeds over 45/50MPH, some thought it was the engine before they discovered it was the whole front section lifting and buffeting.
Swift were slow to admit this was a problem, but then sent out mobile "engineers" to try and fix them.
The fix was to install double sided black foam strips along the mating edges of the opening sunroof, but this was not enough, as additional latches were also needed.
The problem went on for many months and affected mh's with this new plastic roof. The whole vans roof opens upwards hinged at the front, and although it looked very swish, was always going to be a problem with insufficient catches and seals to stop the wind lifting it at speed.

I have mentioned my experience on this before here on Fun, but we had a new Bolero on order, which with hindsight and fortunately in some respects was delayed in its build by many months.
I was so concerned that problem had not been addressed as the production line cannot be halted, that I asked Swift directly if they could assure me that when my van was built, it would have had this problem fully addressed, and that any modification needed would have been carried out.

They did not answer my question on The Swift Talk Forum, even with the pressure & support of over 100 Swift Talk members applying pressure to Swift to answer my concern. I gave them 10 days notice to reassure me, or I would cancel my order....They still ignored me, so I cancelled my order Swiftly, and went with another manufacturer for peace of mind.
I am disappointed to hear this problem is still occurring, as that Panoramic Roof Skylight is part of the front of the roof as a whole, and will not be cheap, even if they have replacements from the original plastic company that supplied them.
LES

 

[Ingwe]

Van roof I believe rather than a type of van roof. Just a typo I expect. I do it all the time. I might be wrong of course.

Reminds me of a graffito I saw once:
“I like grils!” Underneath that, someone had written:
“You mean girls!”
Underneath that in a third scrawl was:
“What’s wrong with us grils then?”

 

[Moto GBR]

Yes, They are definitely covering this issue up. I wonder what the outcome would be should one of these come off and kill someone?

This seems the only way they will act on this issue.

Hopefully someone will take legal proceedings against them???

TA Steve

 

[nicholsong]

I sounds as though Swift do not know enough about aerofoils and their capacity to produce lift.

Perhaps their designers should watch a 200-ton aircraft lift off and contemplate how.

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[DT]

Not 100% but I think some of Swifts caravan sunroof issues have been with the bonding agent and they initially did not use the recommended activator.

 

[ambulancekidd]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding daylight.

 

[TinaLes]

Below is the written response to The BBC watchdog programme in relation to the panoramic rooflight problems. In my opinion they are copping out of the fact that there has been a problem with wind buffeting since 2016 on several models with the rooflight closed and locked, and that they knew about but denied, yet the many customers that had to have remedial work carried out, including extra seam wind proofing and additional screws to make them more secure. They cannot blame all the owners of driving with the front valence open which some may have done incorrectly, but the problems were being reported by so many customers that had been sensible and fully secured the rooflight as well as they could have, especially in bad weather, yet the rooflight still lifted and buffeted.
LES

Swift - July 2024​

We contacted Swift to ask for answers to a number of questions and it provided the below responses:

“Follow

1. 
   What are Swift currently doing, if anything, to make the skylights (sunroofs) safe?

Following several failure reports in late December 2023, we immediately conducted a full investigation with the incumbent supplier of the window system. The window system has been featured on our motorhome products for almost a decade and has been thoroughly tested as part of our extensive vehicle development programmes with world-class automotive testing facilities. As part of the investigation, we undertook testing which was focused specifically on the failure modes seen in the recent reports. This testing has confirmed that as long as the vehicle is driven with the window in the closed position and securely attached, there is no risk of failure in the form of window-pane detachment. For the avoidance of doubt, the window is not designed to be driven under any circumstances in an unsecured position and this has been advised in the user handbook and on advice labels on the window itself and the cab windscreen. These labels are in clear sight for the end user.”

1. Have you reported this fault to The Driving Standards Agency (DVSA)?

“Yes, we reported to the DVSA in January 2024 that we were aware of several issues which had been reported via our warranty system and that we were conducting a full investigation with the incumbent supplier of the window system. We have subsequently advised them of the outcome of the investigation with the supplier and we await their response on the matter.”

1. Are you planning to recall the motorhomes that have the reported issues with their skylights (sunroofs)?

“We have no plans at present to launch a Product Safety Recall. However, if the customer fails to follow the instructions provided, and drives the vehicle with the window in an open and unsecured position, then there is a risk of failure due to the additional stress which is placed on the fixings in this condition. As a precautionary measure, we are writing to all customers to remind them of the requirement to secure the window in transit and if they believe that they may have driven with the window in an unsecured position at any point during their ownership period, then we strongly advise they have the window inspected, and rectified where necessary, by a Swift Approved workshop or any AWS approved workshop. Second or subsequent owners of vehicles may also wish to have this check undertaken to ensure that previous owners had adhered to the guidance on usage.”
Swift also added in it’s response that previous recalls of products did not relate to the window assembly in question, and that:
“The Swift Group are committed to responsible manufacturing, and we pride ourselves on ensuring that every leisure vehicle we manufacture is able to withstand the rigours of road travel, provide a comfortable and safe holiday space over many years and meet stringent safety criteria.”
Finally, in July, Swift updated us that the DVSA have now completed it’s review and is satisfied with the documents provided, it told us the case is now closed.
If you want to watch the show, it will be on iPlayer for 30 days here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0021clq/the-one-show-24072024

 

[SpeedyDux]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding daylight.

My take is that the proliferation of these large panoramic roof panels on MHs (and full length sunroofs in cars) is the consequence of a current fashion for "privacy glass", or similar dark plastic side windows. The size and number of the side windows in coachbuilts has also diminished in recent years.

Without more daylight via the roof, interiors would be too depressing during typically British cloudy or rainy days.

I would prefer no rooflights at all, (eventually they leak) and less darkly tinted, bigger area side windows to let in more daylight.

 

[Minxy]

I would prefer no rooflights at all, (eventually they leak) and less darkly tinted, bigger area side windows to let in more daylight.

But a roof light can be left open a bit when it's raining and also let's out hot air, without them it would be very uncomfortable in hot weather. I have to admit though that the size of windows, or total lack of them, in some MHs/PVCs makes them very dismal.

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[Basildog]

But a roof light can be left open a bit when it's raining and also let's out hot air, without them it would be very uncomfortable in hot weather. I have to admit though that the size of windows, or total lack of them, in some MHs/PVCs makes them very dismal.

I agree
Also another point to remember about many roof lights installed by the manufacturers is that they incorporate the upper fixed ventilation which is a requirement of the ventilation in Leisure vehicles standard BS EN 721 .
Unfortunately many dealers and accessory installation companies don’t have any knowledge about ventilation requirements, they are increasingly removing skylights with fixed ventilation and installing air conditioning units or fans that provide no fixed ventilation.
Just another example of how poor the knowledge is in the Leisure industry.

 

[nicholsong]

My take is that the proliferation of these large panoramic roof panels on MHs (and full length sunroofs in cars) is the consequence of a current fashion for "privacy glass", or similar dark plastic side windows. The size and number of the side windows in coachbuilts has also diminished in recent years.

Without more daylight via the roof, interiors would be too depressing during typically British cloudy or rainy days.

I would prefer no rooflights at all, (eventually they leak) and less darkly tinted, bigger area side windows to let in more daylight.

Some of the modern interiors reduce the wall area available for windows, e.g. tall fridge/freezers and separate toilet and shower compartments.

 

[Minxy]

Some of the modern interiors reduce the wall area available for windows, e.g. tall fridge/freezers and separate toilet and shower compartments.

I know but sometimes they don't, our Globecars' windows were quite good but I've seen many a PVC version with much smaller windows when there wasn't a need, as well as quite a few coachbuilts. There was a new MH recently, can't remember what it was but it was talked about on here, with a very 'trendy' interior no doubt to entice younger MHers but it didn't have a window on the UK offside at all from what I can recall.

 

[nicholsong]

I know but sometimes they don't, our Globecars' windows were quite good but I've seen many a PVC version with much smaller windows when there wasn't a need, as well as quite a few coachbuilts. There was a new MH recently, can't remember what it was but it was talked about on here, with a very 'trendy' interior no doubt to entice younger MHers but it didn't have a window on the UK offside at all from what I can recall.

The only wallspace where we do not have windows is about 2' behind passenger seat, toilet/shower, wardrobe, fridge, and hab door, so about 15' of the 50' of walls(sides, front and back).

Quite a good ratio in my opinion.

 

[Puddleduck]

I know but sometimes they don't, our Globecars' windows were quite good but I've seen many a PVC version with much smaller windows when there wasn't a need, as well as quite a few coachbuilts. There was a new MH recently, can't remember what it was but it was talked about on here, with a very 'trendy' interior no doubt to entice younger MHers but it didn't have a window on the UK offside at all from what I can recall.

I think it was a Chausson.

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[HKF]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding daylight.

We have two pan roofs on our MH and we love them. They make it feel so light, airy and spacious. So many MHs are dull and depressing when you step into them.

 

[VXman]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding daylight.

We have internal blinds on every window and skylight. It is virtually blackout in the van even on the sunniest morning. I sleep better in the van than at home.

We have two pan roofs on our MH and we love them. They make it feel so light, airy and spacious. So many MHs are dull and depressing when you step into them.

Totally agree. I don't understand those people who stick covers over their windscreens before dark either. I keep every window possible uncovered until dark. More light the better.

 

[our poppy llll]

I wonder if people have a way to report faults to an independent body like the DVSA so when several pop up they can investigate.
My skylight panoramic window was repaired under warranty, it opened but would not close, by hanging onto the mechanism I did get it to close. It was repaired it works fine now, Lowdhams denied there was anything wrong with it!. One of the gel screw protectors that hold the skylight in place, came off while driving. Had thus hit a person or a vehicle it could have been a major issue and I could have lost my license.

The thing I think needs reporting to this body and swift, is the location of the water pumps underneath the motor home, they hang very low to the floor and many people have lost their pump when going over speed humps or onto drains. If one is not completely knocked off and is still hanging on by a damaged screw and you are driving down a motorway when it detaches, it could easily kill someone as a 1.5 kg pump bounces into the vehicle behind..

I lost mine, on a speed hump Swift put it back on under warranty. £201.00 charged and refunded.
It is easy to reduce the bracket size and reroute the pipes so the pump is higher than the chassis. My next job… Swift should do this as a matter of urgency, recalling all Swift models affected.
It’s not rocket.

 

[Jerrywh]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding daylight.

We have two rooflights in our La Strada and we love them. They come with bug blinds and full blinds so are flexible. The van is 17 years old and they haven't leaked yet. I wouldn't want to cook or to have a shower without at least one of them open..

 

[TheMachMan]

There lack of accountability sounds similar to my fight with Carthago about ours. Ended up out of pocket with all the blame on me. Mine worked loose and suffered mechanical stress cracks. Funny then that the replacement was different, with thicker acrylic windows!