BBC Watchdog: Swift Panoramic Roof Flaws

[Suzukikettle]

Swift on BBC Watchdog regarding faults with the panoramic roofs flying off while driving

 

[our poppy llll]

I wonder if people have a way to report faults to an independent body like the DVSA so when several pop up they can investigate.
My skylight panoramic window was repaired under warranty, it opened but would not close, by hanging onto the mechanism I did get it to close. It was repaired it works fine now, Lowdhams denied there was anything wrong with it!. One of the gel screw protectors that hold the skylight in place, came off while driving. Had thus hit a person or a vehicle it could have been a major issue and I could have lost my license.

The thing I think needs reporting to this body and swift, is the location of the water pumps underneath the motor home, they hang very low to the floor and many people have lost their pump when going over speed humps or onto drains. If one is not completely knocked off and is still hanging on by a damaged screw and you are driving down a motorway when it detaches, it could easily kill someone as a 1.5 kg pump bounces into the vehicle behind..

I lost mine, on a speed hump Swift put it back on under warranty. £201.00 charged and refunded.
It is easy to reduce the bracket size and reroute the pipes so the pump is higher than the chassis. My next job… Swift should do this as a matter of urgency, recalling all Swift models affected.
It’s not rocket.

Today I checked the clearance from floor to the bottom of the pump, it’s only 127mm or 5 inch, whereas the exhaust pipe clearance is 203 mm or 8 inch. The road traffic regulations say a speed hump should not exceed 100mm or just under 4”, I tested that our on several near me, and 3 out of 10 measured 120mm 1 out of 10 measured 131mm the rest ranged from 50-80mm.

 

[Emmit]

I know for certain that an attendee at the 'Schools Out' rally had problems several years ago, identical to those highlighted in the TV programme.
Swift paid him several thousand pounds but made him sign a non disclosure form.

 

[ambulancekidd]

We have two rooflights in our La Strada and we love them. They come with bug blinds and full blinds so are flexible. The van is 17 years old and they haven't leaked yet. I wouldn't want to cook or to have a shower without at least one of them open..

I get that entirely. It shouldn't be too hard to cut down the amount of light getting in on a summers morning, but the manufacturers haven't worked that out yet. we have two rooflights, but the blinds are old school & cut the light entirely, bliss.

 

[ambulancekidd]

We have internal blinds on every window and skylight. It is virtually blackout in the van even on the sunniest morning. I sleep better in the van than at home.



Totally agree. I don't understand those people who stick covers over their windscreens before dark either. I keep every window possible uncovered until dark. More light the better.

Our blinds are normally the last closed wherever we are. It's the early hours of a summers morning that I don't like being floodlit.

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[our poppy llll]

It's the early hours of a summers morning

Summer lovin, had me a blast,… There’s a reason there’s sky lights, .. the stars, the moon and oh those summer nights… and early mornings too….
Who needs sand dunes when you have… a Moho love machine…

 

[The Coops]

I know but sometimes they don't, our Globecars' windows were quite good but I've seen many a PVC version with much smaller windows when there wasn't a need, as well as quite a few coachbuilts. There was a new MH recently, can't remember what it was but it was talked about on here, with a very 'trendy' interior no doubt to entice younger MHers but it didn't have a window on the UK offside at all from what I can recall.

Weinsberg do one with no windows on the nearside other than the cab window

 

[Strat10101]

My swift bessacarr 597 departed company with the panoramic roof on Monday I was driving at approx 50mph with the grandkids on board, and my wife in her car following.. It just let go without any warning whatsoever, proceeded to hit the aircon unit on the roof and smash into pieces then hit the wifes car.. Thankfully we were all OK but totally shocked.. I've spoken to swift and been swatted away like a fly... So battle is now to commence. The thing is not fit for purpose and will probably take a fatality for Swift to take any action.. Its appalling for a company that is trying to build a quality brand with a £300mil t/o... Happy for any legal advice etc... Finally the van has never been driven with the sunroof open, looking at it, it acts like a large wing, creates negative air pressure and just lifts off.

 

[Wh05apk]

My swift bessacarr 597 departed company with the panoramic roof on Monday I was driving at approx 50mph with the grandkids on board, and my wife in her car following.. It just let go without any warning whatsoever, proceeded to hit the aircon unit on the roof and smash into pieces then hit the wifes car.. Thankfully we were all OK but totally shocked.. I've spoken to swift and been swatted away like a fly... So battle is now to commence. The thing is not fit for purpose and will probably take a fatality for Swift to take any action.. Its appalling for a company that is trying to build a quality brand with a £300mil t/o... Happy for any legal advice etc... Finally the van has never been driven with the sunroof open, looking at it, it acts like a large wing, creates negative air pressure and just lifts off.

Sorry to hear off your incident, hope you are all ok, and get things sorted promptly.
You mention it will take a fatality, hopefully it won't come to that, but people need to speak with their wallet, this has been going on for years, yet people still keep buying these substandard vehicles, if people stop buying them, I am sure swift will modify the build.

 

[rosalan]

Why oh why do Swift, a major supplier of UK motorhomes continue to be on the back foot when a fault is discovered.
Their history of long term faults goes back to ‘leaky kontiki’ the rotting floors and now detached roof panels. Swift produce good layouts and decor but would I want to invest a lot of money in a company unwilling to respond to their customers concerns? It goes beyond rude and implies they have no answers.

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[Strat10101]

Yip, I was one of the unfortunate ones to have this happen. Swift are doing everything they can to not own up to there being a fault with them. I wonder what the next course of action will be?

TA Steve

What did Swift say to you Steve, my pan roof flew off last Monday to date they're hopeless and not admitting any liability

Rgds Graham

 

[The Coops]

Has anyone thought of bringing a class action against Swift it seems to be a major problem with the roof. I am sure one of these no win no fee types would take it up for you, if you win Swift would be liable for all the expenses.

 

[rosalan]

As I am sure Swift would say is that you would have to prove negligence on their behalf. They already hint the company making the ‘faulty’ panels is not them .
If they shut up long enough, the problem will go away.

 

[nicholsong]

As I am sure Swift would say is that you would have to prove negligence on their behalf. They already hint the company making the ‘faulty’ panels is not them .
If they shut up long enough, the problem will go away.

The claim could be for supplying goods not of merchantable quality and/or not fit for purpose. No negligence need be proved.

Swift supplied them regardless of who made them.

 

[Moto GBR]

What did Swift say to you Steve, my pan roof flew off last Monday to date they're hopeless and not admitting any liability

Rgds Graham

I had to go to an authorised Swift dealers to get a report done (had to pay for the report)

The guy then sent it off to Swift. They said I do not get a copy! I was fuming as I had paid for it.

There reply was that it is out of warranty and the windows are not covered.

I told them it was not a warranty claim but a manufacturing defect.

I argued the case but was told that it was their final decision.

Absolutely fuming, hopefully some legal action will be taken against them.

Ta Steve

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[Strat10101]

If I live to be a hundred, I will never understand this love of being flooded by light in a motorhome? Especially in the early hours of a summers morning when its like broad daylight even with the blinds fully closed.
I even detest Heki roof lights for the same reason. I don't want a dark or dingy motorhome, but I put cosy way about blinding dayl

Has anyone thought of bringing a class action against Swift it seems to be a major problem with the roof. I am sure one of these no win no fee types would take it up for you, if you win Swift would be liable for all the expenses.

I'll be seeking legal advice on Monday for this, also a FOI from VOSA

 

[Moto GBR]

Keep me updated

 

[our poppy llll]

I had to go to an authorised Swift dealers to get a report done (had to pay for the report)

The guy then sent it off to Swift. They said I do not get a copy! I was fuming as I had paid for it.

There reply was that it is out of warranty and the windows are not covered.

I told them it was not a warranty claim but a manufacturing defect.

I argued the case but was told that it was their final decision.

Absolutely fuming, hopefully some legal action will be taken against them.

Ta Steve

If you get a crowd funding post going, I would be happy to throw a few quid at it, so you can get a top solicitor and barrister to take a case against them, get your details on a swift owners forum and ask for help, once you have a confident solicitor who would take the case and a rough costing. In order to get enough coverage, take swift to court for multiple errors on motorhomes, like water pumps being snapped off, or parts falling off while driving, or sat nav’s failing or any failure even if covered by a warranty. If you win it might open doors for lots of repairs and redesigns and maybe compensation

 

[maz]

There was a similar issue back in 2016 with panoramic skylights on Hobby motorhomes. At least Hobby owned up to the issue (which was due to the glue used) and arranged for remedial work to be carried out. There was an EC Rapid Alert put out at the time.

 

[kingspeed]

My swift bessacarr 597 departed company with the panoramic roof on Monday I was driving at approx 50mph with the grandkids on board, and my wife in her car following.. It just let go without any warning whatsoever, proceeded to hit the aircon unit on the roof and smash into pieces then hit the wifes car.. Thankfully we were all OK but totally shocked.. I've spoken to swift and been swatted away like a fly... So battle is now to commence. The thing is not fit for purpose and will probably take a fatality for Swift to take any action.. Its appalling for a company that is trying to build a quality brand with a £300mil t/o... Happy for any legal advice etc... Finally the van has never been driven with the sunroof open, looking at it, it acts like a large wing, creates negative air pressure and just lifts off.

Hello,
I did subscribe to your post last week, but I have no idea if I did it right or if you received it.
I wondered if you have received "your" letter from Swift as I did last Monday.
There is one question I would like to ask all the owners of these vehicles Swift say are being driven with the Sky View Window open.
That is, when the loud vibration type noise happened did you have both your drivers and passengers windows open.

The reason I ask this is because this is an effect that has a name. It is called the Helmholtz Resonance effect.

In a vehicle with only one window open you suffer the sometimes painful waffling/drumming effect in your ears.
We have all experienced this.

If however you drive with both windows open you create the Helmholtz Resonance effect. This happens because the air rushes into the vehicle with such force that the air that is already in the vehicle cannot be displaced by the rushing in.
The result can be quite dramatic as the in rush of air will try to displace the air that is still inside your vehicle.
This increase in internal air pressure will have the effect of blowing all your windows out. Just like on an aircraft.

However we are not talking about travelling at 32,000 ft. We are talking about the air now forcing its way around our motorhomes, trying to find a weak spot.

All motor vehicle designers have to overcome, and protect all and sundry from this happening.

I am guessing we are all now on the same page. Yes the weak spot will prove to be the Sky View Window.

I have carried out the inspection on my motor home and found no problem at all I just greased the long threaded rod that elevates the relevant roof section.

If we can prove this theory then Swift will have no hiding place, because in the letter we have received Swift state clearly they "have recently investigated several instances of failures relating to this window assembly"
They then go on to say (this bit is not a direct quote) the experts have determined the cause of failure as driving with the roof window open.

This is incorrect and cannot be proven. However the Helmholtz Resonance effect can.

I will lay a shilling they did not test the test vehicles with the sky roof fastened and both the front windows open.

I would appreciate your thoughts on my little bit of research.

Regards, Trevor.

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[ToGoldlyBo]

Helmholz Resonance apart (and I'm thinking about that), I have long worried about the roof panels and planned to do something about it. Boosted into action by the number of people saying "me too" after the programme. There is a clear design fault in that there are two drainage channels under the valance which, when driving, channel air up under the valance and the panoramic window clearly creating a lifting force. Added to that, my panoramic roof panel has never fitted perfectly, even after the dealer did work on it after I complained. Air can clearly get under the front edge corners and lift the sides of the window. So I have created wind deflectors to direct the flow of air up over the valance and the window. I have also fixed the valance down at the edges with mastic. It definitely takes the edge off the look of the smooth lines, but I feel safer and the panoramic roof panel no longer vibrates. It didn't cost much either. Two offcuts of a gutter down pipe and two offcuts of aluminium sheet.

 

[ToGoldlyBo]

A thought on your comment Trevor about the HR effect. My panoramic window used to vibrate badly at speeds over 50mph. The dealer made it far better by adjusting the shape and fit and reduced the vibration. But I almost never drive with the windows open, so that would not be the cause of problems on my vehicle. My problems arose from external airflow

 

[DT]

Slightly different topic but watch Atlantic Caravans on YT video on Swift cant rails. Apparently one case involved no adhesive being used. I think as buyers we all should educate ourselves better and think hard before accepting shoddy design and manufacturing.

 

[Ducatian]

Hello,
I did subscribe to your post last week, but I have no idea if I did it right or if you received it.
I wondered if you have received "your" letter from Swift as I did last Monday.
There is one question I would like to ask all the owners of these vehicles Swift say are being driven with the Sky View Window open.
That is, when the loud vibration type noise happened did you have both your drivers and passengers windows open.

The reason I ask this is because this is an effect that has a name. It is called the Helmholtz Resonance effect.

In a vehicle with only one window open you suffer the sometimes painful waffling/drumming effect in your ears.
We have all experienced this.

If however you drive with both windows open you create the Helmholtz Resonance effect. This happens because the air rushes into the vehicle with such force that the air that is already in the vehicle cannot be displaced by the rushing in.
The result can be quite dramatic as the in rush of air will try to displace the air that is still inside your vehicle.
This increase in internal air pressure will have the effect of blowing all your windows out. Just like on an aircraft.

However we are not talking about travelling at 32,000 ft. We are talking about the air now forcing its way around our motorhomes, trying to find a weak spot.

All motor vehicle designers have to overcome, and protect all and sundry from this happening.

I am guessing we are all now on the same page. Yes the weak spot will prove to be the Sky View Window.

I have carried out the inspection on my motor home and found no problem at all I just greased the long threaded rod that elevates the relevant roof section.

If we can prove this theory then Swift will have no hiding place, because in the letter we have received Swift state clearly they "have recently investigated several instances of failures relating to this window assembly"
They then go on to say (this bit is not a direct quote) the experts have determined the cause of failure as driving with the roof window open.

This is incorrect and cannot be proven. However the Helmholtz Resonance effect can.

I will lay a shilling they did not test the test vehicles with the sky roof fastened and both the front windows open.

I would appreciate your thoughts on my little bit of research.

Regards, Trevor.

Very interesting Trevor. Would the result/severity of the resonance effect be affected by having the Sky View window Blind being closed?
Not talking about the fly screen, but the more denser and rigid blackout screen?

 

[kingspeed]

Very interesting Trevor. Would the result/severity of the resonance effect be affected by having the Sky View window Blind being closed?
Not talking about the fly screen, but the more denser and rigid blackout screen?

Hi, I was away in Yorkshire in my motorhome last week, and on the way there and back I wondered the same thing.
However I have carried out all the recommendations from Swift and have no issues to worry about.
That did not stop me thinking about it so I did not drive with both passenger, and drivers side windows open.
I have never driven with the sky roof open.

I am still proceeding with the DVSA to find out if they will take action regarding Swifts refusal to recall the vehicles that have this Sky View Sun Roof.
Up to now I have one other member of this club who has joined me in this issue.
He has kindly given his consent to send his details to the DVSA. He has had the ultimate experience of his sky roof being blown off, and having to get it repaired/replaced so they can use their vehicle.
I have seen the repair bill and job sheet.

All of this was with no support at all from Swift.

If there are any more of our members that would like to contribute to this case please just send any details that are relevant and I will forward any information I receive to the contact I now have at the DVSA.

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[Moto GBR]

Hi, I was away in Yorkshire in my motorhome last week, and on the way there and back I wondered the same thing.
However I have carried out all the recommendations from Swift and have no issues to worry about.
That did not stop me thinking about it so I did not drive with both passenger, and drivers side windows open.
I have never driven with the sky roof open.

I am still proceeding with the DVSA to find out if they will take action regarding Swifts refusal to recall the vehicles that have this Sky View Sun Roof.
Up to now I have one other member of this club who has joined me in this issue.
He has kindly given his consent to send his details to the DVSA. He has had the ultimate experience of his sky roof being blown off, and having to get it repaired/replaced so they can use their vehicle.
I have seen the repair bill and job sheet.

All of this was with no support at all from Swift.

If there are any more of our members that would like to contribute to this case please just send any details that are relevant and I will forward any information I receive to the contact I now have at the DVSA.

Do you want a reply with a PM?

Ta Steve

 

[HKF]

The pan windows that are being blown off, are the hinged towards the back of the MHs or towards the front, please? We have two of them on our cappucine, one in front of the other and both hinged at the front. I'm wondering if mine are safer that the Swift ones because of how they sit and where the hinges are. It has me worried. Here are some pics to explain how mine are. What do you think?

 

[kingspeed]

Excuse my ignorance....but what's a pan roof?

Do you want a reply with a PM?

Ta Steve

Hi Steve, I am unsure what a PM is, forgive my ignorance. Y ou can do it either way, but on here would hopefully keep some momentum going.
I have not had any reply from my last email two weeks ago to the DVSA in which I have said;
"I have carried out all the checks in accordance with the guidelines we have received from Swift and have found no fault with what can be seen from their advise in the limited space there is for access".

I took the liberty to explain in the first instance that I was the fitter and vehicle examiner for our own fleet of HGV's adding that I felt it qualified me to carry out any inspections, or works on my own vehicles within my capability.

I further added that Swift cannot mitigate their responsibility by issuing a letter stating we all drive around with the offending sky roof open, and check to see if the screws they fitted are coming undone ?
I told them the average motor home owner would not have the knowhow or expertise to carry out such an examination.
This is a copy of my last email to the DVSA. Sent 28/8/2024 13:10

Hello Mr. Coates,

Further to our correspondence regarding the Swift Sky View Roof issue.

Please find details of an actual incident that has happened on the highway resulting in the complete roof section being ripped off a moving Swift motor home and hitting a following car.
The following car was being driven by his wife causing them to pull off the road.

I have asked the gentleman who owns the motor home if he will allow me to forward this information to you as you are looking into it.
Please feel free to contact him. His details are enclosed.

I, along with Mr. and Mrs. Carney, and I am sure all other owners of these vehicles would now like to ask the D.V.S.A., who will/would be responsible for any incident that involved serious injury, or in the worst case a fatality while we are driving.

We as owners have absolutely no control over such a situation.

I feel we as owners have been put into an impossible position in view of the fact that the D.V.L.A. and The Swift Group are all fully aware of the situation regarding this roof section.

Inspect them as we may on the advice of Swift we do not, as I have said before have the facility to take them all off the road for remedial action or repairs.

Swift however do, and should.

With great respect please advise what we should do.

Kind regards,

Trevor J Stammers.

 

[kingspeed]

The pan windows that are being blown off, are the hinged towards the back of the MHs or towards the front, please? We have two of them on our cappucine, one in front of the other and both hinged at the front. I'm wondering if mine are safer that the Swift ones because of how they sit and where the hinges are. It has me worried. Here are some pics to explain how mine are. What do you think?



View attachment 945797

View attachment 945799

View attachment 945800

 

[kingspeed]

Hello,

I have not heard of any other manufacturer having this issue that Swift have.

I would not be in a position to say you will not have an issue, but I would ask if you could let us know how many "lock down" points you have on each sky window.
The ones on the Swift sky view window have two. One to the left side, and one to the right side.

Regards,

Trevor.

The pan windows that are being blown off, are the hinged towards the back of the MHs or towards the front, please? We have two of them on our cappucine, one in front of the other and both hinged at the front. I'm wondering if mine are safer that the Swift ones because of how they sit and where the hinges are. It has me worried. Here are some pics to explain how mine are. What do you think?



View attachment 945797

View attachment 945799

View attachment 945800

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[kingspeed]

Very interesting Trevor. Would the result/severity of the resonance effect be affected by having the Sky View window Blind being closed?
Not talking about the fly screen, but the more denser and rigid blackout screen?

Hello,
When I had the noise in my motor home both the fly screen and the blackout blinds were closed.