Battery charging

Mart 63

Mart 63

Joined
Oct 17, 2024
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Costa Blanca
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Rapido 8086df
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Hi, first night last night off grid, my battery is down to 71%. I've switched the combi inverter off. Does it need to been on to charge batteries. Thanks, it's still a learning curve for us.
 
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headlight said:
Yes to use a 240v device I need to turn the inverter on via the remote.
With my inverter if you don't use the remote to control it, and you dont have to, and just have it turned on ready to use, it draws just over 1 amp whilst not powering anything.
Click to expand...
OK understood - that will be its no load consumption 1.2 amps would make sense - Thanks for clarifying
 
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Down to 50% this morning, we did watch a lot of tv though last night, and I left the inverter on.



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Raul said:
That's exactly what is referred to as, stand by idle, no load consumption; or, data sheet terminology ''zero load power''.
Click to expand...
So when the inverter is turned on on the inverter but off on the remote (instructions say that is standby) and the inverter is drawing 0.1 amp what condition is the inverter in/called ?
 
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headlight said:
So when the inverter is turned on on the inverter but off on the remote (instructions say that is standby) and the inverter is drawing 0.1 amp what condition is the inverter in/called ?
Click to expand...
The inverter itself is off - just has some circuit running to react to/with the remote - Standby is a reasonable term, but gets confused since other makes use different terminology.

So my Multiplus is switched off at the moment, and I can switch it on at the panel, or remotely through the app, so like yours it must be using something to monitor for that.

If I turn the inverter part on (as distinct from the charger), it will use 13w until I plug in a 230v device. the 13w is the no/zero load consumption, which I was confusing with the term "standby" IE waiting for a load, rather than waiting to be switched on.

If I change mine to use AES mode, the Multi effectively lowers the output voltage a bit (20% I think) and the no load consumption drops to 9w, but will still immediately power up when something is plugged in.

If I change mine to use Search Mode, the multi will send out a pulse of AC every two seconds for a brief period and if it detects a demand (configurable but on standard settings 100w) it will then supply the load. The no load consumption is then 3w. There is of course some compromise in this mode, since there may be a slight delay, or the load is too small, or unintended/automatic.
 
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AdrianChen said:
The inverter itself is off - just has some circuit running to react to/with the remote - Standby is a reasonable term, but gets confused since other makes use different terminology.

So my Multiplus is switched off at the moment, and I can switch it on at the panel, or remotely through the app, so like yours it must be using something to monitor for that.

If I turn the inverter part on (as distinct from the charger), it will use 13w until I plug in a 230v device. the 13w is the no/zero load consumption, which I was confusing with the term "standby" IE waiting for a load, rather than waiting to be switched on.

If I change mine to use AES mode, the Multi effectively lowers the output voltage a bit (20% I think) and the no load consumption drops to 9w, but will still immediately power up when something is plugged in.

If I change mine to use Search Mode, the multi will send out a pulse of AC every two seconds for a brief period and if it detects a demand (configurable but on standard settings 100w) it will then supply the load. The no load consumption is then 3w. There is of course some compromise in this mode, since there may be a slight delay, or the load is too small, or unintended/automatic.
Click to expand...
Just a bit confused as Raul has said when the inverter is on-on ie on on the inverter and on on the remote, is drawing just over 1 amp but is not powering anything that that is standby ?
The instructions say that when it is drawing 0.1 amp that that is standby and the 0.1 amp draw is to keep the inverter charged/energised ?
 
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headlight said:
Just a bit confused as Raul has said when the inverter is on-on ie on on the inverter and on on the remote, is drawing just over 1 amp but is not powering anything that that is standby ?
The instructions say that when it is drawing 0.1 amp that that is standby and the 0.1 amp draw is to keep the inverter charged/energised ?
Click to expand...
Your manual is badly worded and confusing the user. It may be stand by for the remote as explained above by AdrianChen, the inverter is not on stand by, until you turn it ON at the remote, or primary switch.
Its been like that in the industry for donkeys, and for the reason you just explained, to eliminate confusion, its been simplified as zero load power, but, some name plates still refers to it as idle power consumption; that is inverter ON and no load. It does not matter if you turn it at first or second switch, or online remote if applicable.
The fact that you add gadgetry and add standby consumptions, its the nature of any installation. There is no free lunch.
 
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Well apologies to everyone as my description of how the inverter is set up was incorrect.
Not sure if it's because I fitted it 11 months ago and have forgotten or the old grey matter is failing, anyhow.
I've been to the van today to check it's OK.
The inverter has a permanent live feed to it but the inverter itself is permanently turned off on its on/off switch.
The remote is turned off and like this the inverter draws 0.1 amp.
To use the inverter I turn the inverter 'on' using the remote, which is described as standby, and the inverter then draws just over 1 amp with no load on it but obviously the sockets that it's wired to are now ready to provide power.
So the actual on/off switch on the inverter itself is always in the off position.
The manual says, quote,
"The remote control and inverter are connected in parallel. When one of them is used to control the inverter the other must be kept turned off. Otherwise the inverter cannot be turned off"
So I don't know if this makes any difference to my previous ramblings where I stated that the on/off switch on the inverter is on where as, as I am using the remote, actually the inverter switch is permanently off.

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headlight said:
I think what Lenny means is that if you use a 12v USB charger to charge your phone it will use a little less than if you use a 240v USB charger powered by your inverter due to voltage conversion and inverter inefficiencies.
Click to expand...
But will it not take forever to charge the phone like that?
 
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Barriesimpson said:
But will it not take forever to charge the phone like that?
Click to expand...
No different to charging a phone in your car from a USB charger plugged in to a cigarette lighter socket.
I charge mine and the Mrs phones and tablets in the back of the motorhome using a 12v powered USB charger not a 240v mains USB charger if I'm not using the inverter.
It means I don't have to have the inverter on just to charge a phone so uses a little bit less battery power.
 
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Barriesimpson said:
But will it not take forever to charge the phone like that?
Click to expand...
The short answer is no!

All a mains phone charger does is convert mains to USB voltage levels, which will be 5V for a basic charger, or higher if it is a fast charger. A 12V powered charger does exactly the same, albeit more efficiently than a mains charger powered from an inverter.

The speed of charging only depends on whether the charger is a basic one or one which meets one of the fast charging standards. How the charger itself is powered is immaterial.
 
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headlight said:
No different to charging a phone in your car from a USB charger plugged in to a cigarette lighter socket.
I charge mine and the Mrs phones and tablets in the back of the motorhome using a 12v powered USB charger not a 240v mains USB charger if I'm not using the inverter.
It means I don't have to have the inverter on just to charge a phone so uses a little bit less battery power.
Click to expand...
Yes I appreciate that but the 240v is a super-fast charger. Gets my Samsung to 100% in less than an hour.
 
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fred_jb said:
The short answer is no!

All a mains phone charger does is convert mains to USB voltage levels, which will be 5V for a basic charger, or higher if it is a fast charger. A 12V powered charger does exactly the same, albeit more efficiently than a mains charger powered from an inverter.

The speed of charging only depends on whether the charger is a basic one or one which meets one of the fast charging standards. How the charger itself is powered is immaterial.
Click to expand...
Mine is a super-fast charger and gets the Samsung to 100% in less than an hour.

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Well you can get equivalent fast chargers that run off 12V. Maybe worth getting one of those anyway as a backup.
 
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Barriesimpson said:
Yes I appreciate that but the 240v is a super-fast charger. Gets my Samsung to 100% in less than an hour.
Click to expand...
You can get super fast 12v USB chargers.
TBH I don't really notice any difference in charge time between using my 12v USB charger or my 240v USB charger but I don't think either are super fast chargers although both will charge a phone fast enough for me.
I'm not in a rush.

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Peavy said:
It will be at a cost, as fast chargers are great consumers. Better be patient in a van 😀
Click to expand...
The same amount of energy is required to fully charge a phone's battery, whether you do it quickly or slowly. There may be marginal differences in efficiency between slow and fast charging, but probably too small to be of concern.
 
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Barriesimpson said:
I've not seen those, do you have a link?
Click to expand...

There are two types of 12V chargers - those that fit permanently by cutting a hole in a panel, and those that fit into an existing or new cigarette lighter socket. I prefer the former as the others do sometimes work their way out due to vibration. You can install the permanently fitted ones anywhere, and are not limited to the existing cigarette lighter socket, although you do need additional wiring to connect them up to a 12V and earth supply. You can of course fit an additional cigarette lighter socket but if you are going to cut holes to do that you might as well use the permanently fitted type.

Here are two permanently fitted ones - the first has an on/off switch on the front and the second doesn't. I have used both types as for some applications I want one that becomes live as soon as the 12V is switched on.

With switch
Thlevel USB C Car Charger Socket... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08YN3T3CY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Without switch
Car USB Socket QC 3.0 36W 12V Car... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NV6XT41?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Cigarette lighter version
SYNCWIRE 90W USB C Car Charger [PD 45W PPS & QC 45W] Cigarette Lighter USB Charger Car Adapter USBC Fast Charging Compatible with iPhone 15 Pro Max 14 13 12 11, Google Pixel 7, Samsung S23 22, iPad

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C3LVWHLK?ref=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&social_share=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=1

I have used all three of these types and have had no issues with them.
 
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fred_jb said:
There are two types of 12V chargers - those that fit permanently by cutting a hole in a panel, and those that fit into an existing or new cigarette lighter socket. I prefer the former as the others do sometimes work their way out due to vibration. You can install the permanently fitted ones anywhere, and are not limited to the existing cigarette lighter socket, although you do need additional wiring to connect them up to a 12V and earth supply.

Here are two permanently fitted ones - the first has an on/off switch on the front and the second doesn't. I have used both types as for some applications I want one that becomes live as soon as the 12V is switched on.

With switch
Thlevel USB C Car Charger Socket... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08YN3T3CY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Without switch
Car USB Socket QC 3.0 36W 12V Car... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NV6XT41?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Cigarette lighter version
SYNCWIRE 90W USB C Car Charger [PD 45W PPS & QC 45W] Cigarette Lighter USB Charger Car Adapter USBC Fast Charging Compatible with iPhone 15 Pro Max 14 13 12 11, Google Pixel 7, Samsung S23 22, iPad

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C3LVWHLK?ref=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&ref_=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&social_share=cm_sw_r_cso_em_apan_dp_69M1135MASBVA9FCSYAR&starsLeft=1&skipTwisterOG=1

I have used all three of these types and have had no issues with them.
Click to expand...
But those are only 3 amp I've changed the standard ones in my van for C3 they are a bit faster but really slow compared to my mains charger that can charge at over 6 amps.
 
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One other thing worth mentioning is that if you want to use fast or superfast chargers, such as the QC or PD types, you need to buy cables that are designed and rated for fast charging otherwise you may not get the full speed.
 
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Lenny HB said:
But those are only 3 amp I've changed the standard ones in my van for C3 they are a bit faster but really slow compared to my mains charger that can charge at over 6 amps.
Click to expand...
Well, there may be faster ones out there, but these charge my phones very quickly, usually only an hour or so, and I generally charge overnight so am not too concerned over how long it takes. I also use one of these to power my Beryl router via USB-C.

I am a bit wary of super fast chargers as they are not necessarily good for the life of the phone batteries, and can also cause the phones to get very hot.

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I use a Clipsil plug with a cigarette socket and plug a 2 x 3.0QC 12v USB charger in to it if charging with 12v.
I have 240v wall sockets which have 2 x 3.1A USB sockets wired from my inverter if charging from the inverter.
I generally only run my phone down to about 25-30% and either of the above will charge it back up in about an hour.
Tablets take a bit longer as they have a bigger battery.
 
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