Battery charging

Mart 63

Mart 63

Joined
Oct 17, 2024
Posts
107
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Location
Costa Blanca
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107,212
MH
Rapido 8086df
Exp
2022
Hi, first night last night off grid, my battery is down to 71%. I've switched the combi inverter off. Does it need to been on to charge batteries. Thanks, it's still a learning curve for us.
 
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headlight said:
The 0.1 amp inverter standby draw readings were at night so no solar charge to skew the readings.
If I have the inverter on and the remote on but am not using any 240v items from the inverter, so effectively standby, the draw is 1.2 amps.
Having the inverter turned on but the remote in standby reduces the standby drain to 0.1 amps.
Click to expand...
I have the same inverter with remote on off via screen or LAN.
Inverter on at switch to enable remote on switch, but off at remote switch is 0.1A.
Inverter on is 9-12W or 0.9A ish. No way round it; you got yourself mixed up.
 
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MichaelT said:
On mine the remote turns the inverter on/off so no draw at all when off?
Click to expand...
To have no draw at all I need to turn the inverter off on its own on/off switch on the feed to it.
Hence leaving the inverter itself turned on but the remote turned off (standby).
 
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Lenny HB said:
There will be some draw unless you are disconnecting the 12v supply to it.
Click to expand...
I assumed that's what the remote does turns the inverter off so no 12v?

Mines a sunshine solar and the physical switch is in off position the remote turns it on.

Edit: Mine has a wired remote not via an app.

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MichaelT said:
I assumed that's what the remote does turns the inverter off so no 12v?

Mines a sunshine solar and the physical switch is in off position the remote turns it on.
Click to expand...
No it will just be a software switch unless you can hear a big clunk from a heavy duty relay.
 
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MichaelT said:
Sunshine solar with wired remote.
Click to expand...
I fitted a 2,000 watt Sunshine Solar inverter in my mates van, Cardiffboy 4 weeks ago and can confirm that when switched off there is no drain at all.
Nice unit and if it had been the £200 off 12 months ago that it was when he bought his it is the inverter I would have bought for my van.
If my inverter packs up the Sunshine Solar 2,000 watt inverter is probably what I would replace it with.
I rate Sunshine Solar and still have a little 300 watt inverter of theirs that I used before switching to LifePo4 and a 2,000 watt inverter.

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headlight said:
I fitted a 2,000 watt Sunshine Solar inverter in my mates van, Cardiffboy 4 weeks ago and can confirm that when switched off there is no drain at all.
Nice unit and if it had been the £200 off 12 months ago that it was when he bought his it is the inverter I would have bought for my van.
If my inverter packs up the Sunshine Solar 2,000 watt inverter is probably what I would replace it with.
I rate Sunshine Solar and still have a little 300 watt inverter of theirs that I used before switching to LifePo4 and a 2,000 watt inverter.
Click to expand...
Had it 5 years in old van and moved to new one this year.
 
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MichaelT said:
Had it 5 years in old van and moved to new one this year.
Click to expand...
This is the trial fitting of his inverter I did to check everything was OK before fitting it properly
20241022_161856.webp

I did fit an on/off switch in the inverter live feed but found it was not needed.
20241022_161929.webp
 
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headlight said:
???
Click to expand...
Confusing isn't it?
Inverter switch ON, is to enable the remote switch functionality, like the common in a two way switch, as now you extending that switch to a second remote switch. You turn the inverter remote switch OFF you lost functionality of the remote switch. We leave it ON to enable functionality on the remote switch.
So, now we are at the remote switch, we can chose 4 states:
ON ( inverter and charger)
Inverter only
Charger only
OFF (inverter and charger)
If you turn OFF at the remote, its off no draw, same as OFF at the inverter switch, no difference.
What you see 100mA is all your connected devices stand by, like solar charger, GX, pcb of remote switch, shunt etc. If you have 3 solar chargers maybe more, each has few milliamps that add together.
Inverter on, draws a bit more, 12W is about right.
 
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Raul said:
Confusing isn't it?
Inverter switch ON, is to enable the remote switch functionality, like the common in a two way switch, as now you extending that switch to a second remote switch. You turn the inverter remote switch OFF you lost functionality of the remote switch. We leave it ON to enable functionality on the remote switch.
So, now we are at the remote switch, we can chose 4 states:
ON ( inverter and charger)
Inverter only
Charger only
OFF (inverter and charger)
If you turn OFF at the remote, its off no draw, same as OFF at the inverter switch, no difference.
What you see 100mA is all your connected devices stand by, like solar charger, GX, pcb of remote switch, shunt etc. If you have 3 solar chargers maybe more, each has few milliamps that add together.
Inverter on, draws a bit more, 12W is about right.
Click to expand...
That sounds nothing like my inverter or controls.
My inverter does not have a built in charger.
Inverter turned off at the remote it still draws 0.1 amps.
If I turn my inverter off with the switch I've put in the live feed to it my shunt says there is no drain at all.
I assume there is some parasitic draw from my solar controller and shunt but it is so small that the Victron Smart Shunt can't detect it.
 
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Lenny HB said:
Not much my phone charging from a USB socket at 2.9 amps takes 1.2 amps from the 12v supply, if you are using a mains charger it will be a tiny bit more plus the inverter overhead that could be another couple of amps. So best not to use a mains charger.


I didn't know Rapido used Mastervolt, I take it you have a fairly big Lithium system.
Click to expand...
Haven't a clue what Rapido use, but the guy who owned it before me was an electrical engineer, he fitted it.
 
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Mart 63 said:
Haven't a clue what Rapido use, but the guy who owned it before me was an electrical engineer, he fitted it.
Click to expand...
I think what Lenny means is that if you use a 12v USB charger to charge your phone it will use a little less than if you use a 240v USB charger powered by your inverter due to voltage conversion and inverter inefficiencies.
 
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Lenny HB said:
There will be some draw unless you are disconnecting the 12v supply to it.
Click to expand...
Yes I thought these things when they are in Eco, or "search" type mode put out a lower voltage, or a timed pulse to see if there is any take up from devices you may have switched on, so they must use some power, in "search" mode, the standard setting requires 100watt load for the inverter to stay on IIRC.

Most of the 2500w size seem to use about 1amp with no load (unless in some sort of eco mode), but will supply power immediately when a device is plugged in/turned on as you would expect from the mains if on EHU.

If in standby, you must switch the inverter back on before it will supply 240v loads, I guess that's not the same thing as no load consumption described above, and being pretty much the same as turning it off, as we do with ours (remotely, but on either the Victron panel or the app).

Having to switch the inverter on before I turn on the coffee maker isn't a big issue for us, and it means Julie has to ask before she uses her collection of hair dryers brushes etc, which means I can moan about the batteries, so she'll possibly approve an upgrade?

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When not in use I turn off the Multiplus (inverter/charger) as my experience is that it will draw around 6A in 24 hours. When off it will still draw a very tiny amount as it has to keep the Bluetooth alive.

When the Multiplus is off it will still trickle charge the vehicle battery.
 
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headlight said:
That sounds nothing like my inverter or controls.
My inverter does not have a built in charger.
Inverter turned off at the remote it still draws 0.1 amps.
If I turn my inverter off with the switch I've put in the live feed to it my shunt says there is no drain at all.
I assume there is some parasitic draw from my solar controller and shunt but it is so small that the Victron Smart Shunt can't detect it.
Click to expand...
You still don't get it do you. The OP asked about a combi inverter with a charger. Charger only off grid will not help as its no EHU, and your inverter is different as a simple stand alone. Still in post 12 you say your draws 0.1A in stand by, it does NOT as Lenny said as well is to low. That draws is switched off at the remote switch, not stand by, stand by is ON ready to take loads. The remote switch is what you should use for normal operation, and isolator for long periods lay off, not frequent.
What you are doing, is Isolate positive line into inverter. That's NOT switching as you will need a pre charge resistor to re energise each time. A Isolator is not a functional switch and is NOT designed for that use.
My post covered all scenarios for a combi inverter, and still applicable if you only have On-Off.
 
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Raul said:
You still don't get it do you. The OP asked about a combi inverter with a charger. Charger only off grid will not help as its no EHU, and your inverter is different as a simple stand alone. Still in post 12 you say your draws 0.1A in stand by, it does NOT as Lenny said as well is to low. That draws is switched off at the remote switch, not stand by, stand by is ON ready to take loads. The remote switch is what you should use for normal operation, and isolator for long periods lay off, not frequent.
What you are doing, is Isolate positive line into inverter. That's NOT switching as you will need a pre charge resistor to re energise each time. A Isolator is not a functional switch and is NOT designed for that use.
My post covered all scenarios for a combi inverter, and still applicable if you only have On-Off.
Click to expand...
Yes good point about disconnecting inverters entirely from the 12v supply and the effect on their capacitors if a resistor is not used - especially if done regularly/routinely on larger invertors. Ours is rarely disconnected, except for maintenance (once in two years). I might even put in Lenny's neat solution for switching resistors in/out.

I had forgotten that aspect, which I tend to do if it means some work needs doing!
 
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Raul said:
You still don't get it do you. The OP asked about a combi inverter with a charger. Charger only off grid will not help as its no EHU, and your inverter is different as a simple stand alone. Still in post 12 you say your draws 0.1A in stand by, it does NOT as Lenny said as well is to low. That draws is switched off at the remote switch, not stand by, stand by is ON ready to take loads. The remote switch is what you should use for normal operation, and isolator for long periods lay off, not frequent.
What you are doing, is Isolate positive line into inverter. That's NOT switching as you will need a pre charge resistor to re energise each time. A Isolator is not a functional switch and is NOT designed for that use.
My post covered all scenarios for a combi inverter, and still applicable if you only have On-Off.
Click to expand...
Im not arguing, but.
I'm not isolating the positive feed to the inverter, I leave the isolater switched on all the time.
I only mentioned the isolator as that is the only way to stop the inverter drawing any power even if the inverter switch itself is off.
My inverter has an on/off switch on the inverter itself.
When this switch is turned off the inverter still draws power.
If I turn the inverter switch to on it draws over 1 amp even though it is not powering anything.
If I have the inverter switch on but the remote off the inverter draws 0.1 amp.
If I want to use the inverter I turn on the remote.
 
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AdrianChen said:
Yes good point about disconnecting inverters entirely from the 12v supply and the effect on their capacitors if a resistor is not used - especially if done regularly/routinely on larger invertors. Ours is rarely disconnected, except for maintenance (once in two years). I might even put in Lenny's neat solution for switching resistors in/out.

I had forgotten that aspect, which I tend to do if it means some work needs doing!
Click to expand...
Lenny has a nice neat solution, you can get isolators with built in pre charge resistors. Some bms es have that to, a pre charge resistor when you bring a battery on line, or connect a inverter to it. Seplos bms has a pre charge built in.

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clonkel said:
When not in use I turn off the Multiplus (inverter/charger) as my experience is that it will draw around 6A in 24 hours. When off it will still draw a very tiny amount as it has to keep the Bluetooth alive.
Click to expand...
Multiplus does not have Bluetooth.

Your current estimates are far too low see my post #15.
 
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Raul said:
Lenny has a nice neat solution, you can get isolators with built in pre charge resistors. Some bms es have that to, a pre charge resistor when you bring a battery on line, or connect a inverter to it. Seplos bms has a pre charge built in.
Click to expand...
What are you thoughts on this? - I can already do this with the kit as it is:happy:
 
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Raul before I fitted this inverter with my vans control panel turned off there was no parasitic drain on my leisure battery (18 year old Swift with a very basic electric system) or at least not that the Smart Shunt can detect.
After fitting this inverter, and with the control panel off, I noticed the Smart Shunt showing a 0.1amp drain.
That was with the switch on the inverter in the on position and the remote switch in the off position.
I fitted an isolator in the positive feed to the inverter and isolated the power to the inverter.
The 0.1 amp drain disappeared.
That is why I am pretty sure that my inverter on remote standby draws 0.1 amp.
 
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headlight said:
Raul before I fitted this inverter with my vans control panel turned off there was no parasitic drain on my leisure battery (18 year old Swift with a very basic electric system) or at least not that the Smart Shunt can detect.
After fitting this inverter, and with the control panel off, I noticed the Smart Shunt showing a 0.1amp drain.
That was with the switch on the inverter in the on position and the remote switch in the off position.
I fitted an isolator in the positive feed to the inverter and isolated the power to the inverter.
The 0.1 amp drain disappeared.
That is why I am pretty sure that my inverter on remote standby draws 0.1 amp.
Click to expand...
So do you have to switch it on (at the remote) to use a 240v device?

The consumption of around 1amp that folk are referring to is with the inverter fully on so if a device is plugged in it will just work as if on ehu, or at home, (i.e. no switching needed on the inverter or it's remote). That's what most makes refer to as the no load consumption, its all on and ready to go, but uses around an amp depending on the inverter size.

Victron MV and others have schemes to reduce that consumption to as low as 7w. They also can be turned off on their remote switches/apps etc, and then draw almost nothing, as does yours, but then you have to switch them back on which is what I prefer to do - Sounds like we do the same thing?
 
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AdrianChen said:
What are you thoughts on this? - I can already do this with the kit as it is:happy:
Click to expand...
My thoughts are, IF you will need to isolate the supply ofter, a resistor is a must. If occasional isolation for maintenance or odd job on the electrics not worth it.
I do not have a pre-charge on the van, as I never isolate. But I do have breakers on each battery, and a cable cutter always by the door cupboard. On initial connection for inverter, solar chargers, I just use a pencil as resistor to charge the caps.

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AdrianChen said:
So do you have to switch it on (at the remote) to use a 240v device?

The consumption of around 1amp that folk are referring to is with the inverter fully on so if a device is plugged in it will just work as if on ehu, or at home, (i.e. no switching needed on the inverter or it's remote). That's what most makes refer to as the no load consumption, its all on and ready to go, but uses around an amp depending on the inverter size.

Victron MV and others have schemes to reduce that consumption to as low as 7w. They also can be turned off on their remote switches/apps etc, and then draw almost nothing, as does yours, but then you have to switch them back on which is what I prefer to do - Sounds like we do the same thing?
Click to expand...
Yes to use a 240v device I need to turn the inverter on via the remote.
With my inverter if you don't use the remote to control it, and you dont have to, and just have it turned on ready to use, it draws just over 1 amp whilst not powering anything.
 
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