Availability of General Mechanics or Engineers

Interestingly and unfortunately 'Engineer' is not a protected title anyone can call themselves an Engineer, but by doing so they are doing both themselves and their customers a disservice. Like many I did an apprenticeship in the Motor trade undertook industry tests (can't remember the name it was long ago). I was never a Motor Engineer even though I can strip, bore re-shim etc, same as I can overhall a rack and pinion or a crown and pinion, measure and set up caster, camber, or perform a de-coke, grind new vales insert valve stems etc, I pride myself that I was a Motor Vehicle Mechanic / Technician, I then changed roles and technology, the apprenticeship skills came with me, Like many I had an interest in Computing and had a small company in the mid 80's that made computer games, my role was testing production and marketing which all went well I then sold that company. I applied to a university and part time study in computer sciences and went on to post graduate diploma in more soft sciences, then a Master of Science in a totally different subject, I have an inkling for a PhD a university is interested in taking me on but still mulling over whether I wish to do this, it means I would have to learn a whole new Math area etc. my point is I am not an Engineer but an apprenticeship is always by your side, it is a valuable thing as is anyone who is a truly qualified Engineer, we do not need to call ourselves something we are not. (y)
 
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andyman said:
Engineers are the same. I’m fed up of interviewing “skilled engineers“ who when you push them on their ability know very little.
Ask them to sharpen a drill, erm no. Give them a Zeus book and ask them to give me a tapping size, puzzled look.. And if the micrometer or vernier isn’t digital they are clue less.
No idea of feeds and speeds on a machine tool.
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I've still got a couple of Zeus books in my shed/workshop I use from time to time and still have my 0-1" Starrett mic I bought as an apprentice back in 66 !! Bet most engineers now wouldn't know what a Zeus book was never mind use one.
 
Zeus book? Ee gods, what's that? ?
 
animal said:
I've still got a couple of Zeus books in my shed/workshop I use from time to time and still have my 0-1" Starrett mic I bought as an apprentice back in 66 !! Bet most engineers now wouldn't know what a Zeus book was never mind use one.
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I have a slide rule and whilst modern engineers may never have used one but then again why would they want to. Both Zeus books and slide rules are of their time I guess. We value and understand these things but the question is how useful are they in todays world. I can manually calculate erlang figures and use erlang tables probably as quick as some one using a computer program but why would any one do that today?

But it is nice we can do this....
 
I'll see your Zeus book and raise you... :LOL:
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Duckato said:
Theres a down side to being pretty capable of doing multiple things, you get exploited!

I have been in various car clubs over the years and more recently have been increasing involved helping people with issues in their camper vans. I learnt very quickly not to do things for free, people take the piss!
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100%
 
Thought I would throw in my tuppence, I served a 4 year apprenticeship as a toolmaker, learnt how to do everything manually, turning, milling, jig boring, etc. That was during the pre digital age 76-80. I eventually ended up working for Ford as an 'application engineer', which meant I sat at a computer all day working out how to fit sensors into engines, the job bored the t#ts of me but paid twice what I could earn 'on the tools'. I used to sit beside graduate engineers who regularly designed things that physically could not be made.
Sad to say, but skilled mechanical craftsmen are a dying breed, but then again are we really needed anymore?
 
The garage that services my Renault car and the mechanics of my Fiat based MoHo is an engineer first.

Willing to tackle anything he feels can be fixed and on one job he did for me he produced 'special' tools that he had made himself to make it easier!

He is Mercedes Benz trained and a specialist certified by them. When he left Mercedes to go it alone, they visited, inspected his new premises and provided he uses original parts keeps his ratings.

He positively relishes when I roll up with a strange problem that needs fixing he's out of the office and under the van immediately.

Since I first took the van to him he has rented a motorhome for a family weekend and considering buying one!

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40 years professional Civil Engineering and this is the best I can come up with to clean the solar panels

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dunnah01 said:
40 years professional Civil Engineering and this is the best I can come up with to clean the solar panels

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Think that's a tad over-engineered. What's wrong with a step ladder and complying with the "safe working at height regulations". Must say, my van has roof bars along both sides which makes it easier when working on the roof....something to grab hold of :oops:
 
Wagoneer said:
Think that's a tad over-engineered. What's wrong with a step ladder and complying with the "safe working at height regulations". Must say, my van has roof bars along both sides which makes it easier when working on the roof....something to grab hold of :oops:
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The only stepladder in the van is 3 steps high so barely any use for cleaning windows ?. ERIC says eliminate so did that to eliminate working at height ?. Having said that I did climb through the skylight last time and walked about on the roof with no edge protection whatsoever ?
 
To put Engineers and "hands on" in perspective. A guy called Kelly Johnson founded "Skunk Works" in America, he was the guy who designed the U2 and the SR-71.

Anyway, as you can imagine he had lots of really clever people working for him. Loads with the highest qualifications from the best Universities. These brightest of the bright were told by Kelly on their first day, "if you have a really clever idea go and talk to the people who have been building the aircraft for 20 years, if they don't laugh at your idea you may have something worth doing".

We found the same when we had Graduates come and work with us at British Gas Engineering Research. In the electronics lab on their first day all you could hear were cries of pain as these clever people invariably picked up the soldering iron by the hot end ! Met one chap of 25 years old who looked in wonder at a pair of mole grips and asked what they did !
 
Engineers?

Perhaps I'm looking for a 'fixer' over a 'replacer.'

I knew such a guy many years back.

I doubt if he had a single piece of paper with his name on it!

Once when the indicators failed on my back up vehicle and the dealer was talking weeks to get a replacement part, he stripped down a small relay box, cleaned up some small brushes contained within, reassembled the box, closing it up with super glue.

The fix outlived the car.

Another time in an Arab country one of the Range Rovers assigned to up broke its gearbox.

The team I was with took the gearbox out in the desert.

Loads of cogs were broken plus a few other bits and pieces.

They loaded it into the back of another vehicle, drove to the nearby city.

Hawked around the metalwork area of the souk, market, until they found the shop they wanted.

Lots of shouting and arm waving before the interpreter informed me that we had to come back in three days.

Out of boredom and interest I asked to look in the next day!

Sat on the floor of this very sad metalwork shop was a man filing a gear cog!

On the appointed day we collected the repaired gearbox, took it back to the stranded vehicle, they bolted it back into places, topped off what needed topping off, started the engine and gingerly pulled away.

It wasn't perfect, couldn't get every gear, every day when you wanted it but where we were I reckon the wreckage would still be sat in the desert waiting for spares from Land Rover.

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PhilMary said:
I can bear that, 50 years a professional engineer but I let the rain clean the solar panels.
Phil
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Not seen any rain here in France since lockdown. All we get is a fine dust from all the pine trees we're amongst which coats the panels everyday. Voltage plummets unless I dust them off ?
 
When I was serving my five year apprenticeship, every apprentice carried a set of Zeus tables and a six inch steel rule in the top pocket of their overalls. We were expected to be able to read the rule to with 5 thousandths of an inch.

When number two son started his apprenticeship at RR, seven years ago, his first two weeks in the training school was learning to work a file. Each lad had a piece of quater steel plate with a half inch hole and a length of steel bar. They had to file the bar to one inch square to fit the filed hole in the plate. All to tolerance of course and yes it was one inch, the training drawings have not changed for generations. :rofl:
 
Doing my aircraft mech training in the Army we had to make up a section of aircraft skin with a stringer on the rear, all countersunk rivets, then had to paint it. After we proudly showed it to our instructer he drew an X in the middle of our panel, "Go and repair that bullet hole, I want to see a flush finish". Having drawn out our repair for approval we did the repair. Then he drew an X along the edge of the repair, "Draw up the repair". Those who drew a repair which did not remove the original repair and enlarge the cut out were deemed to be idiots. "Never repair a repair".
 
As a retired college lecturer, I can only agree with what has been said about ‘ technicians’! All too easy to blame the computer when in actual fact these code readers only point towards a possible problem area. The skill factor comes in when they investigate the code, confirm the fault, then go on to ensure there are no other faults. Often time given to repair the component isn’t given so replacements are fitted making it a costly procedure. Personally I would recommend independent garages, so called back street garages, every time. Regarding the original thread, a simple component check would have verified the actual problem saving time and money let alone frustration and stress.

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After twelve years in the Army and twenty two years as an AA patrolman it was a bit of a surprise to work with two apprentices on our local buses. They had no ability to think for them selfs. They couldn’t be sent out on breakdowns because it wasn’t routine work. Anything they thought wasn’t there job they just left, often not telling someone it needed sorting.
It was often quicker to do body work, welding or electrics myself because other trades were busy.
Modern vehicle electrical systems are beyond me these days. They won’t stand up to my testing methods.
 
I have always thought as follows;
An engineer was someone who can design something from the ground up from 1st principles and has a deep grounded knowledge of the field.
A Person who makes what an engineer designs is a machinist or similar title depending on field.
A person who repairs something by diagnosing issues and replacing parts is a technician.

Although the bounds are not always clearly defined and there are some crossover. That has been my view of the rough definitions in my head.
Please note this is just how I view the definitions, my opinion and nothing more.

I don't judge people by their quals and I have met many, many people in the trades with degrees who were complete morons and I have met many who left school at 15 and were the most competent people I have ever met. This is obviously not always the case.

However, I do value people who have done a traditional trade apprenticeship higher than most. There is something about the mindset.
 
Ingwe said:
I don't know if I'm just unlucky but I seem unable to find professional what I call 'general' mechanics or engineers.

I can remember 20-30 years ago, if you went to my then VW mechanic (who'd worked on my 1968 12 Beetle for 15 years) he could not only carry out routine services and repairs but could tackle just about anything that needed doing. His training (which he explained including fitting and turning) allowed him to understand almost anything mechanical and could see how to fix things.
Over time, I became friendly with him and when you went to his home you could see all the work in progress. He only had to look at the problem and he'd figure out what the problem was and how to fix it.

Now we have a motorhome which is essentially a motor vehicle with a living space mounted on it. It is out of warranty now but even when it was under warranty, when there were problems (and there were a few) when the van was being looked at, the 'mechanic' would shake his head and say things like "nah-you need a new grundelwurp and they don't make them anymore....can't help you."

A case in point is the motorhome specialist charged with fixing my non-functioning habitation door lock. After he'd had the van for two days, I rang for a progress report. "Your actuator motor is knocked mate-I've got on order £380 plus fitting." After nearly three months waiting for the part (from Bailey) with no joy, I took the van back. I then found that the actuator motor was not only fine (there had been snapped wires where they entered the door) but that a replacement (a two wire actuator motor) was £4.98 from e*bay delivery the next day.

I still need to have the wires joined for a long term solution but have found,after enquiry, no one who takes on thIs kind of mechanical repair. My old mate is now retired and very ill so he's not available. I went through the yellow pages and rang listed: coach builders, fabricators, light engineers, mechanics, auto-electricians etc etc. Couldn't find one who was prepared to have a look at the problem and suggest solutions. I don't have enough confidence in my own skills to undertake the repair but I do know that there must be loads,of people like my old mate. They just don't seem to work anymore.

Hey ho. Rant over. As the ventilator shortage in the UK suggests, we're not the manufacturers we used to be. I fear that skill base is just disappearing.
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We owed a Garage and it got harder and harder to work on an array of makes and models plus the equipment you need got very expensive , plus it' a dirty job sometimes , I would not recommend anybody doing it, you only want to hear some of the comments you get on here, but I have always said "One day you might need a Garage "
 
i left school at 16 to start an apprenticeship in electronics. My employer for the 1st year was the government ?
The idea was to find a traditional employer to keep my apprenticeship going.
My eventual employer - makers of professional broadcast Media equipment - didn’t keep the apprenticeship part going but did give me paid study periods
I did day release to get - after 5yr - an HNC in electronics.
Early roles were internal fault finding on analogue & digital circuit boards (& some PSU setup tasks ?).
Then I started doing site first time and installs full and workflow troubleshooting for customers. Onsite or by phone & email.
For much of the last couple of decades the entry level for my role has needed a degree. I’m just surviving with the experience gained.

Still with me?

Anyway, unlike me, my friends and peers who left home to take degree courses can start with a blank paper and design new broadcast media equipment but if they don’t work as expected they’ll need my help.

TL;DR
There are different engineers out there. Room for all. Just try get the right one for your task ?

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