Are CAMC finally getting the message

[Gizmouk]

You can find the CLUB PERFORMANCE REVIEW 2023 in the October magazine, page 109.

"Sites revenue remained level at £72.1m, the result of depressed site occupancy impacting revenue, despite limiting price increases and multiple promotions and discounts ..."

"Site occupancy was down consequently at c15% at 2.1m site nights and pitch yields were higher at £30.10 a night versus £26.86 in 2022"

"Membership fell slightly in 2023 .. "

Babelfish translation: We are losing members, the sites are less full than last year, but all's well because we jacked up the pitch fees and made similar money from fewer pitch nights.

That piece has been written by someone who's both deluded and arrogant. CMC has severe business issues which they're to blind to accept or address. They've had so many warnings, and lost so many members, and yet they still won't accept the truth.
Either they do it, or "consultants" get brought in to remap the business model.
Site exits and cost cutting begin in 3 - 2 - 1 .....

 

[Tony50]

That piece has been written by someone who's both deluded and arrogant. CMC has severe business issues which they're to blind to accept or address. They've had so many warnings, and lost so many members, and yet they still won't accept the truth.
Either they do it, or "consultants" get brought in to remap the business model.
Site exits and cost cutting begin in 3 - 2 - 1 .....

Cost cutting would be nice Seacroft CMC site in Cromer wanted £52 per night for 2, in September, as I drove passsst ! The site looked full,why people pay that price amazes me.

 

[MichaelT]

Cost cutting would be nice Seacroft CMC site in Cromer wanted £52 per night for 2, in September, as I drove passsst ! The site looked full,why people pay that price amazes me.

On that one location I guess.

 

[Kups]

Cost cutting would be nice Seacroft CMC site in Cromer wanted £52 per night for 2, in September, as I drove passsst ! The site looked full,why people pay that price amazes me.

Maybe because it's one of the very few CAMC sites with a bar, restaurant and outdoor heated pool. Plus it's a short walk into Cromer. Still expensive though, we've never stayed there. Adults only CL site nearby at £24 per night.

 

[Tony50]

Maybe because it's one of the very few CAMC sites with a bar, restaurant and outdoor heated pool. Plus it's a short walk into Cromer. Still expensive though, we've never stayed there. Adults only CL site nearby at £24 per night.

And I think £24 a night is expensive for a CL unless bit has hookup and shower block

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[jerryz]

I have never used a CAMC sit when travelling around UK they all seem overpriced and prissy,, i would use them if they were priced more reasonably £24 max including EHU

 

[Kups]

And I think £24 a night is expensive for a CL unless bit has hookup and shower block

The site does have 16 amp hookup, toilets, wash up but no showers.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I think maybe the management are not too fussed whether the sites are filled as they know they are sat on land that could easily be redeveloped for housing and would be worth a fortune, I wonder if the senior management are looking at their pensions and considering a structured cash out of sites .

 

[poppycamper]

I think maybe the management are not too fussed whether the sites are filled as they know they are sat on land that could easily be redeveloped for housing and would be worth a fortune, I wonder if the senior management are looking at their pensions and considering a structured cash out of sites .

Fair comment if sites are owned by CAMC... However how many are leased/rented from private estates and local authorities...
Crystal Palace and Baltic Warfe comes to mind..!

 

[poppycamper]

Otter Spotter, interestingly found this...
I wonder how many, if any

sites still around on this arrangement...??

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[Coolcats]

That piece has been written by someone who's both deluded and arrogant. CMC has severe business issues which they're to blind to accept or address. They've had so many warnings, and lost so many members, and yet they still won't accept the truth.
Either they do it, or "consultants" get brought in to remap the business model.
Site exits and cost cutting begin in 3 - 2 - 1 .....

Maybe, maybe not across many leisure products and industry activity and purchases are down. There is always more than one ‘truth’ if bookings are down 15% is that a disaster? Revenues are steady, which can’t be a bad thing you can’t or won’t always get growth, Add to the reality it’s been a pretty wet summer maybe more have tried to find sun abroad.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Maybe, maybe not across many leisure products and industry activity and purchases are down. There is always more than one ‘truth’ if bookings are down 15% is that a disaster? Revenues are steady, which can’t be a bad thing you can’t or won’t always get growth, Add to the reality it’s been a pretty wet summer maybe more have tried to find sun abroad.

I didn't see any details about levels of bookings or cancellations. Maybe that's still secret. Comparisons could be made against the previous online booking bespoke system, which I much preferred to the less user-friendly modified hotel booking software that the Club has procured. A giant leap backwards. The deposit system threw away the CAMC's unique selling point and put it in direct competition with commercial sites, that are often cheaper.

The CAMC recently dropped the deposit to a mere £5 per booking. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

On my favourite CAMC sites there seems to be availability especially of grass pitches with awning (and EHU) whenever I want to book at short notice. Hardstandings / all weather pitches are less available. Only a few weekends at peak holiday times are popular sites shown as fully booked nowadays.

 

[TheMachMan]

15% reduction in revenue is a disaster. I was in business in sales for many years, and anything but growth is never good news! Plus add inflation, so the relative drop is over 20%. Partially filled sites with increased pitch prices may have propped up the results. But if you take that to the next level, why not increase fees even more and have even less people staying! Full sites should be their goal. They need to streamline and cut the bloated nonsense like the magazine, the big marketing team and all the partnering for discounts. Most you can get anyway if you shop around.

 

[SpeedyDux]

15% reduction in revenue is a disaster. I was in business in sales for many years, and anything but growth is never good news! Plus add inflation, so the relative drop is over 20%. Partially filled sites with increased pitch prices may have propped up the results. But if you take that to the next level, why not increase fees even more and have even less people staying! Full sites should be their goal. They need to streamline and cut the bloated nonsense like the magazine, the big marketing team and all the partnering for discounts. Most you can get anyway if you shop around.

I detect a potential attempt by the CAMC to move upmarket to justify these price hikes and appeal to the wealthy end of the leisure market. It could explain why so many super expensive luxury towcars have featured in their Towcar of the Year tests and awards. Even a Bentley Bentayga SUV.

 

[TheMachMan]

I detect a potential attempt by the CAMC to move upmarket to justify these price hikes and appeal to the wealthy end of the leisure market. It could explain why so many super expensive luxury towcars have featured in their Towcar of the Year tests and awards. Even a Bentley Bentayga SUV.

Possibly but that market is fairly small as a percentage by number. They’ve got a lot of pitches to fill. Wouldn’t take many to get out of the market, back to overseas holidays after covid for it to backfire.

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[Nikwilko]

Last year with no warning they simply decided to close all their lake district sites 1st we in November. You try find a pich for xmas new year in the lakes when it's already October. How they can argue it's cost effective to shut over winter is beyond me, lakes are busy all year. Far too much money wasted on pointless grass cutting, fancy facilities and camping pods. At park coppice they took out plenty of pitches for pods but did they increase the available pitches after summer peak season no they simply arbitrary put cones on the road and remove pitches for no reason. Considering it's a lease from national trust and how wild camping is frowned up in lakes the camc shutting their sites just adds to the numbers wild camping. This weekend I was at borrowdale site in a forest yet every day the wardens was leaf blowing pine needles off gravel pitches WTAF complete madness.

 

[Coolcats]

I didn't see any details about levels of bookings or cancellations. Maybe that's still secret. Comparisons could be made against the previous online booking bespoke system, which I much preferred to the less user-friendly modified hotel booking software that the Club has procured. A giant leap backwards. The deposit system threw away the CAMC's unique selling point and put it in direct competition with commercial sites, that are often cheaper.

The CAMC recently dropped the deposit to a mere £5 per booking. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

On my favourite CAMC sites there seems to be availability especially of grass pitches with awning (and EHU) whenever I want to book at short notice. Hardstandings / all weather pitches are less available. Only a few weekends at peak holiday times are popular sites shown as fully booked nowadays.

Here is a question, in order for a site to be profitable or even cover costs what occupancy level is required, this is probably different from site to site. It may be far less than what people think. Its is possibly a return to what it may have been say 7-10 years ago. Clearly this is guesswork but it is also unreasonable to expect sites to be fully booked all season.

 

[Coolcats]

15% reduction in revenue is a disaster. I was in business in sales for many years, and anything but growth is never good news! Plus add inflation, so the relative drop is over 20%. Partially filled sites with increased pitch prices may have propped up the results. But if you take that to the next level, why not increase fees even more and have even less people staying! Full sites should be their goal. They need to streamline and cut the bloated nonsense like the magazine, the big marketing team and all the partnering for discounts. Most you can get anyway if you shop around.

that’s one issue management crying ‘Growth’ when actually what is needed is a sustainable business, what if the clubs have grown to its optimal size where does growth come from particularly when people look to cut their spending.

Time will tell

 

[Otter Spotter]

Otter Spotter, interestingly found this...
I wonder how many, if any View attachment 962991sites still around on this arrangement...??

I knew that was leased as is the CfCC site around the corner, all part if the Sandringham estate and they don’t less land if they can help it !

 

[SpeedyDux]

Here is a question, in order for a site to be profitable or even cover costs what occupancy level is required, this is probably different from site to site. It may be far less than what people think. Its is possibly a return to what it may have been say 7-10 years ago. Clearly this is guesswork but it is also unreasonable to expect sites to be fully booked all season.

My CAMC experience in past years is that unless you booked months in advance your only chance of getting on site at short notice during peak season was if there was a late cancellation. Hence the rush in previous years to book the most popular sites online up to 12 months ahead, as soon as advance booking was available online.

In 2024 there was/is a lot of pitch availability if you use the lata availability search tool, even during school holidays and bank holiday weekends. I actually got a pitch at Cirencester Park during the August Bank Holiday weekend via late availability. I was pleasantly surprised, except by the rather steep cost.

I don't know where the break-even occupancy level lies. What is now becoming obvious is that increases in the pitch fees for the 2023 season (and this year) were unnecessarily high. That is putting many Members off, especially compared to cheap pitch fees for equally good or better sites across the Channel at half the cost.

I estimated that I am paying about £5 a night for EHU on CAMC pitches, hidden in the inclusive pitch fee. My requirement is only to charge the hab batteries and keep the compressor fridge and lights running. I am being either overcharged, or I am effectively cross-subsidising high electricity consumption (especially for hot water and space heating) by other outfits, especially large caravans with awnings. What the Club should be doing with its £50+ million in the bank is rolling out metered EHU across its site portfolio ASAP. I understand the current trial of metered EHU has been successful. Bleedin' obvious anyway.

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[Coolcats]

My CAMC experience in past years is that unless you booked months in advance your only chance of getting on site at short notice during peak season was if there was a late cancellation. Hence the rush in previous years to book the most popular sites online up to 12 months ahead, as soon as advance booking was available online.

In 2024 there was/is a lot of pitch availability if you use the lata availability search tool, even during school holidays and bank holiday weekends. I actually got a pitch at Cirencester Park during the August Bank Holiday weekend via late availability. I was pleasantly surprised, except by the rather steep cost.

I don't know where the break-even occupancy level lies. What is now becoming obvious is that increases in the pitch fees for the 2023 season (and this year) were unnecessarily high. That is putting many Members off, especially compared to cheap pitch fees for equally good or better sites across the Channel at half the cost.

I estimated that I am paying about £5 a night for EHU on CAMC pitches, hidden in the inclusive pitch fee. My requirement is only to charge the hab batteries and keep the compressor fridge and lights running. I am being either overcharged, or I am effectively cross-subsidising high electricity consumption (especially for hot water and space heating) by other outfits, especially large caravans with awnings. What the Club should be doing with its £50+ million in the bank is rolling out metered EHU across its site portfolio ASAP. I understand the current trial of metered EHU has been successful. Bleedin' obvious anyway.

I guess this is all about perspectives, regarding electricity its clear since the energy pricing crisis it has become more in focus than the past, then you get people with opinions about what it 'Should' cost or just wanting free parking so somewhere lays the truth.

Clearly the more popular sites do get very busy and you have to book in advance, as we know when lock down happened things went bananas along with people abused the system by booking then late canceling.

I have just booked a private site, the pitches and showers are not as neat, tidy or in as a good a state as CAMC, and its £33 per night, if I want to go to Brighton next Saturday (this Saturday is Full) is from £23.30, add the wife its about £40 so about £7 more than I am paying this weekend. which has very well maintained facilities.

In the area we are staying a Pub room is £140

So here is a thought and its around Inflation, in 2019 that Brighton CAMC pitch may have been £19 with inflation in 2024 that would now be £23.66 and with the wife £33.00

So it may well be that its inflation rather than greedy CAMC that is making these pitch figures look high, yet people expect costs to remain the same or lower.

Average price of pint in 2019 was £3.70 today that same pint is £4.80

The FT weekend edition is £5.20 who on earth would pay over a fiver for a paper? yet its around the same price as a pint

 

[Coolcats]

My CAMC experience in past years is that unless you booked months in advance your only chance of getting on site at short notice during peak season was if there was a late cancellation. Hence the rush in previous years to book the most popular sites online up to 12 months ahead, as soon as advance booking was available online.

In 2024 there was/is a lot of pitch availability if you use the lata availability search tool, even during school holidays and bank holiday weekends. I actually got a pitch at Cirencester Park during the August Bank Holiday weekend via late availability. I was pleasantly surprised, except by the rather steep cost.

I don't know where the break-even occupancy level lies. What is now becoming obvious is that increases in the pitch fees for the 2023 season (and this year) were unnecessarily high. That is putting many Members off, especially compared to cheap pitch fees for equally good or better sites across the Channel at half the cost.

I estimated that I am paying about £5 a night for EHU on CAMC pitches, hidden in the inclusive pitch fee. My requirement is only to charge the hab batteries and keep the compressor fridge and lights running. I am being either overcharged, or I am effectively cross-subsidising high electricity consumption (especially for hot water and space heating) by other outfits, especially large caravans with awnings. What the Club should be doing with its £50+ million in the bank is rolling out metered EHU across its site portfolio ASAP. I understand the current trial of metered EHU has been successful. Bleedin' obvious anyway.

Is this why people are feeling the 'pinch' and viewing costs too high

Pension pot amount needed for ‘basic’ retirement rises 60% in three years​

According to the researchers, the average pension pot required for a basic standard of living in older age has jumped from £68,300 in 2020-21 to £107,800 in 2023-24.

 

[poppycamper]

Brighton next Saturday (this Saturday is Full) is from £23.30, add the wife its about £40

And IMV that as one of the problems with club sites, they charge pitch fees and then extra for additional adults...
Yes good idea if you are a loan traveller..
So why not charge every one a pitch fee..
Most independent sites I use have a pitch tarrif regardless of how many are in van,,,( obviously within reason)

 

[SpeedyDux]

Is this why people are feeling the 'pinch' and viewing costs too high

Pension pot amount needed for ‘basic’ retirement rises 60% in three years​

According to the researchers, the average pension pot required for a basic standard of living in older age has jumped from £68,300 in 2020-21 to £107,800 in 2023-24.

That's me screwed. Adieu basic standard of living. Beans on toast from now on.

 

[Coolcats]

And IMV that as one of the problems with club sites, they charge pitch fees and then extra for additional adults...
Yes good idea if you are a loan traveller..
So why not charge every one a pitch fee..
Most independent sites I use have a pitch tarrif regardless of how many are in van,,,( obviously within reason)

I guess the argument is that the 2nd or more person will use more resources such as showers etc and is another 'metered' charge like people are arguing for electric meters, so if a single traveller or couple pay the same as say 4 people is that fair? (I am not arguing its just a question and it not just the pitch your paying for)

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[poppycamper]

I guess the argument is that the 2nd or more person will use more resources such as showers etc and is another 'metered' charge like people are arguing for electric meters, so if a single traveller or couple pay the same as say 4 people is that fair? (I am not arguing its just a question and it not just the pitch your paying for)

Yes I do agree with you, the point I was trying to make is that most independents only charge by pitch!

 

[CAB96]

I guess this is all about perspectives, regarding electricity its clear since the energy pricing crisis it has become more in focus than the past, then you get people with opinions about what it 'Should' cost or just wanting free parking so somewhere lays the truth.

Clearly the more popular sites do get very busy and you have to book in advance, as we know when lock down happened things went bananas along with people abused the system by booking then late canceling.

I have just booked a private site, the pitches and showers are not as neat, tidy or in as a good a state as CAMC, and its £33 per night, if I want to go to Brighton next Saturday (this Saturday is Full) is from £23.30, add the wife its about £40 so about £7 more than I am paying this weekend. which has very well maintained facilities.

In the area we are staying a Pub room is £140

So here is a thought and its around Inflation, in 2019 that Brighton CAMC pitch may have been £19 with inflation in 2024 that would now be £23.66 and with the wife £33.00

So it may well be that its inflation rather than greedy CAMC that is making these pitch figures look high, yet people expect costs to remain the same or lower.

Average price of pint in 2019 was £3.70 today that same pint is £4.80

The FT weekend edition is £5.20 who on earth would pay over a fiver for a paper? yet its around the same price as a pint



View attachment 963511

I would agree.

The prices were also artificially low due partly to the temporary reduction in VAT during Covid.

 

[Landy Andy]

If it is a case that a second person uses more resources then why is not cheaper when camping in a motorhome rather than a tent. I’m using my shower, and my toilet. A ground dweller is using far more facilities than I am.

 

[MichaelT]

If it is a case that a second person uses more resources then why is not cheaper when camping in a motorhome rather than a tent. I’m using my shower, and my toilet. A ground dweller is using far more facilities than I am.

You are at liberty to use all facilities on site it's your choice.

 

[Janine]

And IMV that as one of the problems with club sites, they charge pitch fees and then extra for additional adults...
Yes good idea if you are a loan traveller..
So why not charge every one a pitch fee..
Most independent sites I use have a pitch tarrif regardless of how many are in van,,,( obviously within reason)

Exactly why many solo travellers don’t use CL’s or commercial sies

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