Anyone gone all electric?

[enark]

Well if your going to carry a genny anyway, why have a different fuel source and big relativity heavy unit, that’s just faffing about. The onboard small electric genny lives under a seat in the hab area so very conveniently placed and saves having to go outside to start up a Honda for example. Also being inboard it won’t be heard, especially being electric as well.

For us it will all be about staying off grid for as long as possible. The genny will allow us to do that.

What’s an electric genny? Is it one that uses electricity to generate electricity?

 

[funflair]

Start engine, press a button to fire up the electric genny, that in turn tops up the batteries as well as real time supply. Simples

Looks a cracking bit of kit Steve, looking forward to seeing it

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

What’s an electric genny? Is it one that uses electricity to generate electricity?

My thoughts exactly!

 

[lorger]

No it wasn’t, but you know….life is short ‘n’ all that.

Hope you have loads to f fun in it, hopefully bump into you as would love a nosey at it.

 

[Jays2]

When I looked at the set up of an all electric RP motorhome, the running of the engine to produce the power, seemed strange.

Point to note, last weekend we stayed at the cricket club car park in Kendal (£10) per night.

On the second night a camper at the side of us turned on his engine and ran it for an hour!
whilst this was between 6.30 to 7.30 pm I did find it very anti social being next to it.

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[VXman]

We are going for all electric hab with our next van which is on order. Heating and water will come via Truma combi diesel heater. 2 x 200ah lithiums on a 24v system. 3 x 160w solar panels but have asked whether bigger ones will fit up top..no answer yet. Onboard electric genny which is driven by the engine will help with matters though.

It's not all electric then is it?

 

[TheAleMan]

Looks a cracking bit of kit Steve, looking forward to seeing it

Thanks Martin. Someone who clearly understands

 

[TheAleMan]

When I looked at the set up of an all electric RP motorhome, the running of the engine to produce the power, seemed strange.

Point to note, last weekend we stayed at the cricket club car park in Kendal (£10) per night.

On the second night a camper at the side of us turned on his engine and ran it for an hour!
whilst this was between 6.30 to 7.30 pm I did find it very anti social being next to it.

It would only be used as a last resort and with discretion obviously.

 

[TheAleMan]

It's not all electric then is it?

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

 

[Stoosal]

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

When I think of ‘all electric’ I assume that people are using solar panels and batteries without any resort to gas or diesel. By the sound of your set up you have substituted gas for diesel and are essentially using the vehicle engine and an alternator in place of an external generator to generate power or top up batteries if need be. It will work, and work well, but I don’t think it’s all electric!

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[TheAleMan]

When I think of ‘all electric’ I assume that people are using solar panels and batteries without any resort to gas or diesel. By the sound of your set up you have substituted gas for diesel and are essentially using the vehicle engine and an alternator in place of an external generator to generate power or top up batteries if need be. It will work, and work well, but I don’t think it’s all electric!

All electric as can be. The genny still needs fuel and an ignition to fire it up, in this case the diesel engine..it's no different to carrying a stand alone petrol or diesel genny in that regard, just less of a faff and it lives inboard tucked out of the way under a seat. It's actually quite a small piece of equipment. It's all about creating electricity to enable us to live off grid almost indefinitely. It's just a means to an end. I will hopefully know more about this system very soon as going to an open day and hopefully all will be explained in greater detail then.

 

[tonyidle]

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

One of which lives under the seat??

 

[68c]

All electric as can be. The genny still needs fuel and an ignition to fire it up, in this case the diesel engine..it's no different to carrying a stand alone petrol or diesel genny in that regard, just less of a faff and it lives inboard tucked out of the way under a seat. It's actually quite a small piece of equipment. It's all about creating electricity to enable us to live off grid almost indefinitely. It's just a means to an end. I will hopefully know more about this system very soon as going to an open day and hopefully all will be explained in greater detail then.

Do not understand "...ignition to fire it up, in this case the diesel engine." Are you saying the generator has an electric start? If so why do you need to run the van engine.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

We have moved much closer to gas free, we have a Truma d6e boiler for heating/water which removes the largest gas usage, an induction hob and microwave for cooking. However our fridge is still a 3 way and we still have 2 gas burners and our gas oven for when we need it. We have a 40 litre gas tank which I think will last about a year between refills! Off grid all electric from 200amp of lithium powered by 2000w inverter and recharged by 60amp b2b and 120w solar. We think we may have the best of all worlds.

Pretty similar system to us. It works well but the solar alone is not enough to recharge unless the height of summer, unless we move from place to place every couple or three days

 

[DuxDeluxe]

You should take a look at Wildax vans, there MAN model is gas free but they are very flexible about swapping around components on others.

I have seen that van and its very innovative. I was impressed

We seriously considered one but disadvantages outweighed the advantages. Cramped at the front, one bed in back very short, no electric step and don’t even think about running it on 3.5 tonnes. We took the Wildax Europa and specified 200ah lithium, 3kw inverter, 240w solar but kept the gas oven/hob as insurance. 3 way fridge as forgot to specify compressor fridge. Works well and still have the underslung gas tank

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[EML]

Sounds like you have the sync setting wrong on the shunt. Victron shunts are normally far more accurate than a BMS.

My understanding is that the sync setting ('Battert start synchronised') is pretty much irrelevant - it only matters at power-up ('start'), or after a disconnection. I'm not even sure what the point is - it only sets the SOC to 100%, unknown, or some pre-determined value. You always have to properly synchronise after a power-up, which I do manually when I think the battery's fully charged.

I'd need convincing that any shunt was more accurate than the built-in BMS. The BMS is mission-critical - it has to balance the cells on charge, and it has to disconnect the cells if something goes wrong (ie. voltage drops too low/etc). The manufacturer's BMS also already knows all the stuff you need for Coulomb counting - Peukert, capacity, tail current, whatever, and will have been tested for those cells. An external shunt is just an add-on, if you don't have access to the BMS, or you've managed to find a battery with a second-rate BMS.

 

[Lenny HB]

Raul see post #76 above can you advise please.

 

[EML]

When I think of ‘all electric’ I assume that people are using solar panels and batteries without any resort to gas or diesel.

I'm not sure anyone else would agree - some of the gin palaces on this thread would need a kW of installed solar, and sunshine, to keep powered up. What you're thinking about is an off-grid static caravan.

 

[TheAleMan]

Do not understand "...ignition to fire it up, in this case the diesel engine." Are you saying the generator has an electric start? If so why do you need to run the van engine.

Like I say, I will be meeting up with the company soon and all the detail will be explained to me then hopefully.

 

[Raul]

My understanding is that the sync setting ('Battert start synchronised') is pretty much irrelevant - it only matters at power-up ('start'), or after a disconnection. I'm not even sure what the point is - it only sets the SOC to 100%, unknown, or some pre-determined value. You always have to properly synchronise after a power-up, which I do manually when I think the battery's fully charged.

I'd need convincing that any shunt was more accurate than the built-in BMS. The BMS is mission-critical - it has to balance the cells on charge, and it has to disconnect the cells if something goes wrong (ie. voltage drops too low/etc). The manufacturer's BMS also already knows all the stuff you need for Coulomb counting - Peukert, capacity, tail current, whatever, and will have been tested for those cells. An external shunt is just an add-on, if you don't have access to the BMS, or you've managed to find a battery with a second-rate BMS.

You need your shunt set up for your battery. No way a bms will be more accurate than the shunt. Victron shunt has a very low resolution and will pick up even 0.6w on 12v systems. No bms can ghat low draw. Even the expensive orion or rec profesional bmses work with a rxternal shunt feeding data to bms.
Your average KS energy will not even have a proper calibration at 2A let alone any lower.

Your shunt settings needs looking at first. Post your settings here.

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[VXman]

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

Clearly not getting it. What did you mean by this then ? "Heating and water will come via Truma combi diesel heater."

 

[TheCaller]

twin induction hob,

Which make/model did you go for?

I'm trying to find one that genuinely operates at lower power when turned down, rather than just cycles on & off.

 

[Jays2]

We have just built an all electric motor home. Just cooking, refrigerating, lighting, toilet, water and charging .
1000watt of tillable solar panels, 120 amp battery to battery charger.
600 amp lithium.
Heating and hot water on diesel.
will it work on a long trip in the winter?
If it doesn’t onto a site and plug to recharge!

Now here’s a thought! Can I plug into an electric car recharge point and top up the batteries if we have a problem with the systems installed?

 

[nabsim]

We have just built an all electric motor home. Just cooking, refrigerating, lighting, toilet, water and charging .
1000watt of tillable solar panels, 120 amp battery to battery charger.
600 amp lithium.
Heating and hot water on diesel.
will it work on a long trip in the winter?
If it doesn’t onto a site and plug to recharge!

Now here’s a thought! Can I plug into an electric car recharge point and top up the batteries if we have a problem with the systems installed?

Yes you can without problem but you need a suitable lead

 

[Lenny HB]

Now here’s a thought! Can I plug into an electric car recharge point and top up the batteries if we have a problem with the systems installed?

autorouter can help with that.

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[autorouter]

Now here’s a thought! Can I plug into an electric car recharge point and top up the batteries if we have a problem with the systems installed?

Yes, but it's not a simple plug-in connection. It's not difficult either. In UK/EU the 'Type 2' plug is quite common, which is an AC supply, not DC. It's a 7-pin plug, with 5 mains connections and two thin 'pilot' wires. The 5 mains wires are Live1, Live2, Live3, Neutral and Earth. By switching suitable resistors and diodes on the pilot wires you can select the power you want, and start/stop the charging. The choice is 3.5kW or 7kW single-phase, or 22kW 3-phase. The 3.5kW single phase is just like a 16A hookup post. My charger takes up to 1750W, so is well below the 3.5kW limit.

The pilot wires implement extra safety functions too, so that it's never possible to get a shock from the connection cable, even when it's wet and you drop one end into a puddle. I fitted a Type 2 socket next to the standard mains inlet, with a generator-type switch to switch between standard and EV input. Also needed is a manual switch to start and stop the charging process, although this could be automated with a timer like on a normal electric vehicle.

The main problem I've had is finding EV point where there is enough space to park a 7m Hymer. I've never had the problem of too many people trying to use the same EV point at the same time.

 

[EML]

You need your shunt set up for your battery. No way a bms will be more accurate than the shunt. Victron shunt has a very low resolution and will pick up even 0.6w on 12v systems. No bms can ghat low draw. Even the expensive orion or rec profesional bmses work with a rxternal shunt feeding data to bms.
Your average KS energy will not even have a proper calibration at 2A let alone any lower.

Your shunt settings needs looking at first. Post your settings here.

What I said was "My Victron shunt has reset itself overnight twice over the last year, showing 100% capacity when it should be 75 or 80%. That makes it pretty much useless."

There's zero probability that this could be caused by incorrect settings or a synchronisation issue. The only plausible explanations are a faulty power connection to the shunt, or a failure in the shunt. Since both events happened overnight, when the van wasn't moving, I'm wondering if the second explanation is the correct one. Having said that, the power connections on the Victron kit are low-quality push-ins, so who knows. A higher quality bit of kit would have the current state stored in non-volatile memory so that it could recover from a temporary failure. The Victron doesn't do this; the 'sync' that Lenny was referring to synchronises to 100% or a known fixed value, which are both useless, or 'unknown', which is the correct answer.

I think that's irrelevant though. I'm guessing that you actually thought that you were replying to a statement that my shunt was less accurate than my BMS. Not so; I don't have an accessible BMS. Whether a third-party add-on shunt is going to be more accurate than the original battery manufacturer's own BMS, or a third-party BMS integrated by the battery manufacturer - well, that's just guesswork, unless and until sometimes posts comparison specs.

 

[Raul]

The pcb may have faults, it’s cheap to change, also possible that the battery shut down and the shunt reset itself.
Faulty power connections to the shunt pcb it’s possible, hence my suggestion of changing the pcb. These are very rare but victron made available spare pcb for a reason I think.
I did had a scenario where the victron shunt will never reach 100%, but it did before with same settings. Well, over time (3 years) the battery changed it’s characteristics, and the initial settings are no longer fit. All I changed was the Peukert exponent from 1.01 to 1.04 in increments of 0.01 at a time, until shunt was reading dead on.
In my case the battery degradation In first 3 years was gradual, then settled.

 

[HKF]

Thought deisel combi heater heat and water

We have that in our MH and it works well

 

[HKF]

I also saw that you could use a conventional domestic fridge, the benefit being they are more efficient?

We have a 3-way fridge but only use it on mains or 12v.

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