Another Fitting Solar Panels on a Hymer Question

[Stealaway]

In fact installing the Schaudt solar controller if you have an Electrobloc is much easier and less complex. You just plug it straight into the solar input on the Electrobloc with the dedicated lead that comes with the controller. That is the same whether you use the older controller of the MPPT one. The Electrobloc then shares that charge between the batteries in the same way it would if the charge was coming from an EHU.

How much does it cost and will it handle 20A?

 

[Speve]

Solar Charge Controller Schaudt MPP LRM 1218 12V
£162.11


Quantity:

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Quick Overview
20 A main battery, 2,5 A starter battery, 12 VDC, 32 VOC, charger for two batteries, LED, SDTBUS,







Sku : 321309
Manufacturer : ohne Logo
Product Weight : 0.36 kg
Packed Weight : 0.65 kg
Dimensions : 130 x 47 x 90 mm (length x width x height)
Shipping : Parcel Post


PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
20 A main battery, 2,5 A starter battery, 12 VDC, 32 VOC, charger for two batteries, LED, SDTBUS,


The proven solar charge controllers for EBL from Schaudt are ideal for for the charging of two batteries in mobile homes.



No Translation

• Solar Charge Controller Schaudt MPP LRM 1218 12V Datasheet
• Solar Charge Controller Schaudt MPP LRM 1218 12V Manual

Order code:321309

 

[peterc10]

Or about 180 Euros from the rest of Europe! It is rated at 20A and Schaudt say it can support up to 275W of solar panels. I suspect it would take a bit more than that as long as you do not take the motorhome to the Equator!

 

[Techno]

I could be wrong but I don't think the EBL can handle 20 amps

EBL101 solar is fused at 15

 

[Lenny HB]

On most of the newer EBL's the connection to the batteries is straight through and the 15 amp fuse can be upped to 20 without causing any problems, always wise to check with Schaudt.

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[Techno]

On most of the newer EBL's the connection to the batteries is straight through and the 15 amp fuse can be upped to 20 without causing any problems, always wise to check with Schaudt.

Certainly wasn't the case with a 226. Udo advised not to go through it with the mppt we use.
EDIT but we do top 22.5

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi All,

Having asked the question in the first place I now have an abundance of information leading to information overload.

I already have the three 100 watt solar panels which I just have space for on my roof so I need to choose a controller and as it is a Hymer the choice appears to be difficult

So....

1. I could take the simple solution and buy a Schaudt LRM1218 which will plug straight into the Elektroblock EBL101 job done and according to @Speve post about £162, I then just have to hope that I never get 100% output from my panels and exceed the 15 or 20amp limit although hopefully it would only be a blown fuse and with flat on the roof panels maybe just possible in Morocco.

2. Use the Votronic MPP350 or 430 FleaBay price £129 for either. This has the advantage of having an output for the +S connector on the AES fridge to automatically switch to Solar if there is enough output from the panels. Not sure if this comes with connectors to plug into the EBL101 so the price may be a bit higher.

3. Use the Maximum Solar 25A 300W controller favoured by Andy @Techno which I have used before £86 and I also have the bits for switching the fridge but perhaps not fully automatic as choice 2 but will have to work through the work around published earlier and buy appropriate connectors, not so easy from France.

Option 2 looks to be possibly in the lead for cost against convenience but am a bit concerned about obtaining the connectors.

If any body has actually used any of the above configurations and can shed some wisdom I will appreciate it.

Thanks again for all the input.

Steve

 

[JeanLuc]

Obviously I have not carried out an installation exactly like yours but I have added circuits to my EBL so have some knowledge of how to go about it. Hopefully the following will help and be understandable.

If in doubt about which connectors to get, I suggest asking Udo. Schaudt can supply them and the price is low although you will have to add postage. You can pay them via PayPal.
If you go for a Votronic and buy the optional EBL cable set (article number 2007 on their website) this will give you the signal cable to show charging current on the DT201 and the charging cable for the habitation batteries. The latter has only two of the three pins on the the MNL connector populated - hab batteries but not starter battery. You will need to add a +ve cable from the solar regulator to the centre position on the optional Votronic charging cable (art 2007) - this will require an extra pin.
You will need to find a way of 'piggy-backing' a pair of cables between Block 6 (Solar input) and Block 7 (Aux charger input) on the EBL assuming you want to split the load and rate each input at 15 amps. This could be done by cutting into the supplied EBL cable (art. 2007) above the MNL connector and using straight crimp connectors to form a Y-shape junction, or you could dismantle the MNL plug and crimp both cable sets into the pins. That might be a bit bulky though and make fitting the pins awkward. I think I would go for the extra straight connector option.
I think you will require a pack of pins and a two-port MNL male plug for Block 7. (If you use straight connectors to make the Block 6 - Block 7 link you should get away without having to buy a special pin removal tool.)
The MNL plug and pins are available from Schaudt - just check with Udo which ones. When I bought some from them for my EBL99 he sent me the price list (attached). I think you need Art No 145.452 - the plug - (top of the list) and Art No 146.307 (middle of the list). The latter are pins for thicker cable - the two options above this are for thinner cables.

Good luck.

 

[Techno]

It will top 20 amps frequently in Morocco

 

[Lenny HB]

Only in mid summer, most people go to Morocco Jan - Mar, we were in southern Spain in March about 20 miles from Morocco never got much more than 50% of rated panel output.
I can get full output from my panels at home in midsummer.

Althought the max output from 300 watts of pannels is around 19 amps, I know Andy has clocked 22.5 from his, it depends on the quality of the pannels. I would want a safety margin built in, over current is not just a case of blowing a fuse but could easily blow the regulator, fueses need x current by x seconds/minutes before they blow.
In normal canditions unlikley to get over 20 amps as max putput is around middle of the day when the batteries have been on charge for a few hours and their internal resisance will have risen.

The Votronic option looks like the best option and those price are way below when I was looking at then some months ago.

You could use the regulator that Andy uses with a CBE solar split charge relay for the cab battery and bypass the EBL you don't need the info on your control panel as the regulator displays it but it will only save you £30-£40 over the Votronic option..
I use that regulator with the relay fed into my EBL as I onlly have 200 watts, it works well.

This may sound silly if you did want to go the LRM1218 route you could switch out or dissconnect one pannel from May to end July and only use the 3rd panel when the sun is lower in the sky. The LRM1218 can be brought from Germany for around £130.

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[JeanLuc]

This may sound silly if you did want to go the LRM1218 route you could switch out or dissconnect one pannel from May to end July and only use the 3rd panel when the sun is lower in the sky. The LRM1218 can be brought from Germany for around £130.

That's a decent thought. Both the LR1218 and the LRM1218 can handle up to 275 watts of panels so you could fit an isolator in one of the panel feeds to the regulator. I would fit an isolator in any event (I have a large fuse) but perhaps a separate battery isolation switch in one panel's +ve feed would make it simple to switch in or out?

 

[Lenny HB]

That's a decent thought. Both the LR1218 and the LRM1218 can handle up to 275 watts of panels so you could fit an isolator in one of the panel feeds to the regulator. I would fit an isolator in any event (I have a large fuse) but perhaps a separate battery isolation switch in one panel's +ve feed would make it simple to switch in or out?

And there was me expecting to get jumped on by you or Andy for my silly suggestion.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks very much @JeanLuc & @Lenny HB fantastic help. I read yesterday that the EBL can't cope with an inverter either and will shut down the system when it detects the voltage drop which is a real complication and extremely annoying. The system in the LeVoyageur could cope with everything I threw at it. Perhaps a separate battery just for the inverter like @Techno does would be the answer and use a split charge relay to keep it topped up but unnecessarily using up more payload and will it condition the battery properly.
I like the Hymer but am beginning to regret getting involved with it's silly foibles.
Steve

 

[peterc10]

Thanks very much @JeanLuc & @Lenny HB fantastic help. I read yesterday that the EBL can't cope with an inverter either and will shut down the system when it detects the voltage drop which is a real complication and extremely annoying.

Don't know where you got that information from, but in my experience it is wrong. I have a 2000W (4000W peak) inverter on my new B678 and it works just fine with my wife's hairdryer. The same inverter was used with my previous Adria motorhome which also had an Electrobloc without any problems.

Obviously an inverter of that size has to be wired directly to the batteries rather than through the Electrobloc. That means that your control panel will not show the amps used, if you have that facility on it (mine doesn't). I cured that by fitting a separate Victron BMV700 which shows voltage and amps being used.

The Electrobloc will turn off if the battery voltage does get low, but that should not happen if you use your inverter correctly.

 

[Zigisla]

I've got a Vanbitz fitted 1800 w psw inverter and no snags with the 119 electro bloc either. Used hairdryer and straighteners which hammered the batts for all of 5 mins. Solar and a drive soon had them back to peak.

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Thanks @peterc I actually read it in the Hymer manual which said that the fitting of an inverter would be likely to cause a shut-down of the system and fitting one would not be supported or recommended by Hymer. Obviously the proof will be in the use and it may be the Control Panel DT201B causing the problem. But whatever the actual result it really doies look as if Hymer and Shaudt are totally out of touch with the modern usage of motorhomes. Very many of which do have inverters and large solar panel arrays so as to be totally independant.
Steve

 

[emjaiuk]

Schaudt have recommended to me to connect the inverter to the starter battery since I only intend using it while driving. I,m having trouble finding a D+ source though since I want to protect the battery with a relay.

Malcolm

 

[peterc10]

Thanks @peterc I actually read it in the Hymer manual which said that the fitting of an inverter would be likely to cause a shut-down of the system and fitting one would not be supported or recommended by Hymer. Obviously the proof will be in the use and it may be the Control Panel DT201B causing the problem. But whatever the actual result it really doies look as if Hymer and Shaudt are totally out of touch with the modern usage of motorhomes. Very many of which do have inverters and large solar panel arrays so as to be totally independant.
Steve

Similar comment in my handbook. But it only says it "could" switch off the 12V system not that it is "likely". I think Hymer are just covering their a**e here. And if they really believed that why do they offer an 1800W inverter as a factory fit extra on their higher specced ranges, and standard on their top of the range Starline S?

AFAIK all modern chargers in motorhomes try to protect the batteries by switching most of the circuits off if the voltage gets to low. But that will not effect the inverter because that can't be switched off by the Electrobloc, although I suspect that it will have its own protection system if the batteries get too low. So if the inverter is drawing so much out of the batteries you will have the same problem whatever Motorhome you have. But in truth if that happens it is probably because your battery bank is either too small or too knackered to cope with what you are asking of it.

Bear in mind that according to Schaudt's manual the automatic disconnection activates when the voltage drops below 10.5V, and if that happens there is probably little hope of your batteries ever recovering, and I suspect your inverter would have stopped anyway long before that. In addition the manual makes it clear that this will not happen for short term (less than 2 seconds) low voltages caused by high turn on currents

There are lots of motorhomes out there with Schaudt's Electroblocs and I am sure that many of them, like mine, are using an inverter without any problems at all. Why not try it? The most that will happen is that the 12V supply will automatically turn back on when the voltage gets high enough, i.e. above 11V according the Schaudt.

Or if you are still worried why not ask Eddie of @eddievanbitz what his experience is - he has fitted plenty of inverters for funsters.

Edit - my Hymer manual also has instructions on how to use the inverter that Hymer fits! Just to confuse you they call it a "converter" and it is a Waeco MSP1512.

 

[JeanLuc]

I use a small inverter (150 watt) without any problems (EBL99 and IT992 control panel so older than yours). I think the Hymer advice is probably based on people having inverters connected direct to the leisure battery (as you would) and then using them heavily without paying attention to current depletion. In that event, it is possible that the EBL could shut down. Also, Schaudt do not recommend connecting an inverter to the hab. batteries but sell an intelligent linking device to charge an extra battery(ies) dedicated to inverter use only. Probably necessary in luxury German Gin Palaces on wheels (e.g. N+B Clou Liner or latest RMB LeVoyageur) with massive current consumption but not really necessary for the average motorhome set-up.
Having said all that, it did happen to me once a couple of years ago, when I was running a desk fan from the inverter and had not been on hook-up for about 5 weeks (relying on the solar panel). The batteries were approaching the end of their life and were not holding charge very well, but I had not realised it. Also, the TV was running off a direct 12V supply from the hab. batteries. In that condition, the EBL detected low voltage and shut down causing us a mild panic.
The solution was simple: two new batteries, re-wire the TV socket and Sat dish from the EBL (that's when I learnt about MNL connectors and pins) and buy a 12V Endless Breeze fan (which arrived last week and has yet to be used in earnest).

 

[Lenny HB]

I have a 1000 watt inverter no problems, if you order the coffee maker option on a Hymer it comes with a 1800 watt inverter.
@peterc10, the 10.5v cut off votage on the Elecktroblock is the on load voltage quite different to off load voltage which I think you are confusing it with, and it is to protect your batteries from over discharge.

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[peterc10]

@peterc10, the 10.5v cut off votage on the Elecktroblock is the on load voltage quite different to off load voltage which I think you are confusing it with, and it is to protect your batteries from over discharge.

The Hymer manual was referring to the battery level dropping because of the load from the inverter. The Schaudt manual was also referring to the level of the batteries getting too low, amongst other things under load, hence the reference to the fact that it would not cut out because of short term loading.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi Guys,
Sorry have been tied up for a couple of days. I will certainly be fitting my 1200watt inverter as I need it to charge my electric bikes and to run the slow cooker. I usually only run it when driving but certainly would not connect it to the engine battery as I sometimes will have the slow cooker on when stopped for a cup of tea or whatever so silly to run the risk of not starting.
The passage in my Hymer Book suggests that a sudden lowering of the Hab Battery voltage as when switching an inverter on could trigger a shut down, so it is suggesting that it would react to short term loading.. It is not talking about when the batteries reach a low voltage and therefore an essential shut down. As I said above it is probably the Control Panel DT201B which is doing the monitoring.
Anyway when I have all the bits together and the Solar Panels mounted I will report back on the actuality.
I intend to use the Votronic controler as it seems to me to be the best option.
Steve

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

The Votronic option looks like the best option and those price are way below when I was looking at then some months ago.

Hi Lenny,
This was the Votronic advert I saw from Germany
Their price for the MPP 350 Duo Dig. 350watt one is £127 or £137 with EBL cables and an extre £12 for temperature sensor. Not sure how important that is with just short of £7 for postage.
Is it what you were looking at for more money previously or am I looking at the wrong thing. £29 extra for the 430 watt one but as I only have 300 watt. Probably not worth it.
Steve

 

[Lenny HB]

I didn't find any of the 350's on eBay when I was looking and only boating dealers had them at silly prices so I went for the same regulator Andy uses with a CBE relay works a treat even had 25 watts out of my 200 watts of panels in thick cloud with ony 20 yd visibility.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi All,
After quite a bit of investigation I have ordered the Votronic MPP 350 Duo Dig which will work directly with the EBL101 using Udo's paralel wiring to BL6 & BL7, Udo does not sell the plugs now but suggested a company that want €22 for two plugs but I think I have found a company on Ebay that do them for about £1.50 each.
Now... Because of where I can site the panels I will take the 6mm solar cables down behind the fridge and fit the Votronic below the fridge which I can access from the garage and fit 30 amp fuses to the in & out terminals there (three 100watt panels). It is then a 3.5 mtr run to the EBL which again I will use 6mm cable for. The feed from the Votronic to pin 2-BL6 for charging the engine battery is only 5amp so should I use 2.5mm cable for that because of the 3.5mtr run or would 1mm do.
Any comments on this set-up gratefully received thanks.
Steve

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi All,
After quite a bit of investigation I have ordered the Votronic MPP 350 Duo Dig which will work directly with the EBL101 using Udo's paralel wiring to BL6 & BL7, Udo does not sell the plugs now but suggested a company that want €22 for two plugs but I think I have found a company on Ebay that do them for about £1.50 each.
Now... Because of where I can site the panels I will take the 6mm solar cables down behind the fridge and fit the Votronic below the fridge which I can access from the garage and fit 30 amp fuses to the in & out terminals there (three 100watt panels). It is then a 3.5 mtr run to the EBL which again I will use 6mm cable for. The feed from the Votronic to pin 2-BL6 for charging the engine battery is only 5amp so should I use 2.5mm cable for that because of the 3.5mtr run or would 1mm do.
Any comments on this set-up gratefully received thanks.
Steve

I would be grateful if somebody could comment on cable sizes in above post, from experience. Perhaps @Techno you may have a minute as you may have done an instalation on a similar van. Thanks.
Steve

 

[Techno]

Order the plugs and pins first and when you get them use the biggest size cable that will reasonable fit them

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Order the plugs and pins first and when you get them use the biggest size cable that will reasonable fit them

Thanks Andy, I think the pins are up to 5.3 mm which is a strange size but may be able to squeeze 6mm in or else it will be 4mm but as I have to make up the "Y" to parallel the two sockets was wondering whether it would be worth running two 6mm cables to reduce the voltage drop over the long run from the solar controller to the EBL. So in the worse case it will only be about 50mm of cable taking half the current even if I have to use 4mm from the splice to the plug pins.
Steve

 

[Techno]

If they're anything like CBE pins they won't take over 2.5 and will need soldering too
5.3 is probably the diameter including insulation rather than CSA

 

[JJ]

Cripey Cripes...

Life seems to have got really, really complicated for some folk.

All the solar panels I have fitted to my own vans have been wired to a solar regulator/controller and then from there to the batteries.

It is how I get 90% of the electrical power for my life when parked up...

Still... horses for courses I suppose.


JJ

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