Allowing campervans to stay on my property

[simonpMhfn6W8]

I live in North Wales and have space to my home offering great views for a single campervan to stay overnight. I was looking to charge a tenner a night including electricity.

I’ve requested an exemption with Motorhomefun which I understand is important but was wondering about insurance.

Anyone have any tips about what insurance I might need and where I can get it from?

cheers.

 

[Ivory55]

I don't think you need to do this as all motorhomes will have a panel with it's own protection. Perhaps it's a risk but what risk really. It's just an electricity supply. It either on or off.

Ahh ignorance is best, I didn’t know so I cannot get into trouble.

 

[chaser]

Just do it with no services, honesty box on the gate, that way you have no expense, and a good chance of your tenner without even being there.

 

[cmcardle75]

Just do it with no services, honesty box on the gate, that way you have no expense, and a good chance of your tenner without even being there.

Also, look into QR code payments. You can just scan it with your phone and send money. You don't need to be there. Few people carry cash these days.

 

[Ivory55]

Also, look into QR code payments. You can just scan it with your phone and send money. You don't need to be there. Few people carry cash these days.

What’s a qr code ? Nobody turns down a bit of folding

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cmcardle75]

What’s a qr code ? Nobody turns down a bit of folding

But almost no-one puts a bit of folding in an honesty box. Seriously, you might as well expect someone to be carrying a goat as much as old-school cash. Almost everyone has a phone, and many of them will have Google Pay/Paypal etc. installed. Even those few holdouts who do have cash are unlikely to have the correct change.

 

[The Wino]

But almost no-one puts a bit of folding in an honesty box. Seriously, you might as well expect someone to be carrying a goat as much as old-school cash. Almost everyone has a phone, and many of them will have Google Pay/Paypal etc. installed. Even those few holdouts who do have cash are unlikely to have the correct change.

They will if they're told when booking that it's cash only no change!. I usually pay almost everything by card these days but I think most realise that for some things like our local free range egg place there's still an occasional need for cash. I suspect it might well put off a few but if there's only one space just see how it books.

 

[Ivory55]

But almost no-one puts a bit of folding in an honesty box. Seriously, you might as well expect someone to be carrying a goat as much as old-school cash. Almost everyone has a phone, and many of them will have Google Pay/Paypal etc. installed. Even those few holdouts who do have cash are unlikely to have the correct change.

Well I for one has not got a qr code, if it’s to much hassle I don’t buy it.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Could it not just be a Fun Cl under Jim’s licence? Just that only one unit instead of up to 5.
Quackers?

 

[GJH]

So CAMpRA are saying I don't any licensing to allow 1 unit to stay for 2 nights. Does anyone have any more information on this?

As per this post, the exemption is the one in Para 2 of Schedule 1 of the 1960 Act.

Yes, such an exemption exists, but can only be used for 28 days a year. The certificated sites exemption is full time, but only applies to members of the exempting organisation.

However, the restriction on allowing only members of the exempting organisation is a rule set by some of the exempting organisations, rather than a requirement in the legislation. I had lengthy correspondence with Natural England in 2014 (the MCC were also in touch with NE at the same time, but separately, regarding the subject). It merged that the requirement was added to the guidance by Defra in 2003. Having reconsidered the matter, Defra lawyers (whilst pointing out that only the courts can give a definitive view) agreed with the conclusion that the legislation does not ban non-members in the case of para 5 exemptions, and it is a decision for the site owner and authorising organisation.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Could it not just be a Fun Cl under Jim’s licence? Just that only one unit instead of up to 5.
Quackers?

I assumed that's what the OP meant by saying "I’ve requested an exemption with Motorhomefun"

 

[Quackers]

Hello simonpMhfn6W8
If you provide electric you will need to have it certified every year, an expense you will not want for a one van space. You will also have to declare it when you sort out insurance, which raises the premium. Using MHF to supply you with a planning exemption certificate is a wise move and I am sure Jim will explain all the benefits as your exemption proceeds. You may have issues with insurance unless you can say it is a dedicated area and separate from the main house. Regarding insurance I suggest you call The Caravan and Camping Club who have a department who look after insuring CLs providing Public Liability, you do not have to be a member of the Organisation.
Club Care Insurance Services 0800-1615340
Good luck with your venture.

 

[simonpMhfn6W8]

Hello simonpMhfn6W8
If you provide electric you will need to have it certified every year, an expense you will not want for a one van space. You will also have to declare it when you sort out insurance, which raises the premium. Using MHF to supply you with a planning exemption certificate is a wise move and I am sure Jim will explain all the benefits as your exemption proceeds. You may have issues with insurance unless you can say it is a dedicated area and separate from the main house. Regarding insurance I suggest you call The Caravan and Camping Club who have a department who look after insuring CLs providing Public Liability, you do not have to be a member of the Organisation.
Club Care Insurance Services 0800-1615340
Good luck with your venture.

Thanks! Will do all that.

 

[cmcardle75]

As per this post, the exemption is the one in Para 2 of Schedule 1 of the 1960 Act.


However, the restriction on allowing only members of the exempting organisation is a rule set by some of the exempting organisations, rather than a requirement in the legislation. I had lengthy correspondence with Natural England in 2014 (the MCC were also in touch with NE at the same time, but separately, regarding the subject). It merged that the requirement was added to the guidance by Defra in 2003. Having reconsidered the matter, Defra lawyers (whilst pointing out that only the courts can give a definitive view) agreed with the conclusion that the legislation does not ban non-members in the case of para 5 exemptions, and it is a decision for the site owner and authorising organisation.

Odd. The restriction is under First Annex Section 5(2) as quoted below. However, in the case of MHF, I see no reason why Jim couldn't specify (if he so chose) that "free" members were members for the purpose of the Act. I have no idea if he has already done so.

Sites approved by exempted organisations

5(1)Subject to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of land as respects which there is in force a certificate issued under this paragraph by an exempted organisation if not more than five caravans are at the time stationed for the purposes of human habitation on the land to which the certificate relates.

(2)For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue as respects any land a certificate stating that the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation.

 

[JJ]

I welcome known (and/or approved) (dog-less) Funsters to park up on my small orchard, at the end of a rough-ish track, in the very rural part of Central Portugal if they want to experience a bit of peace and quiet.

Absolutely no charge whatsoever. None.

I offer no services (except water).
I have no insurance or permission.
All visitors stay totally at their own risk, and therefore not really suitable for the very, very cautious, worrying folk who are always glass half empty types!

The thought of trying to jump through all those hoops to get official approval for paying guests makes my head hurt... and anyway... what would I do with any money collected?

The authorities don't even know I am here!

JJ

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Gaston aires]

Why bother going to all the trouble of fitting EHU for one vehicle..
Most now have solar and leisure battery to last a couple of days

I agree but it’s surprising how many people don’t, they must be mad because solar is so cheap these days.
Phil

 

[cmcardle75]

I welcome known (and/or approved) (dog-less) Funsters to park up on my small orchard, at the end of a rough-ish track, in the very rural part of Central Portugal if they want to experience a bit of peace and quiet.

Absolutely no charge whatsoever. None.

I offer no services (except water).
I have no insurance or permission.
All visitors stay totally at their own risk, and therefore not really suitable for the more cautious, worrying folk who are always glass half empty types!

The thought of trying to jump through all those hoops to get official approval for paying guests makes my head hurt... and anyway... what would I do with any money collected?

The authorities don't even know I am here!

JJ

Here, you need to jump through the hoops to even have non-paying guests! (Unless they are personally known to you where you can claim they are visiting the household).

 

[JJ]

Here, you need to jump through the hoops to even have non-paying guests! (Unless they are personally known to you where you can claim they are visiting the household).

If they are not known to me they are unlikely to be visiting QMJ...


JJ

 

[GJH]

Odd. The restriction is under First Annex Section 5(2) as quoted below. However, in the case of MHF, I see no reason why Jim couldn't specify (if he so chose) that "free" members were members for the purpose of the Act. I have no idea if he has already done so.

It is the wording that is important. As you know, the legislation states "the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members" but it does not state that the land is for the exclusive use of the organisation's members. That is the argument which I put forward to Natural England (as did the MCC which never restricted use of its CLs (including those in the Nightstop scheme that it runs with Practical Motorhome magazine) to its members). Defra/Natural England accepted that argument after studying the legislation again.

There were a couple of threads back in 2014 Here and Here.

 

[cmcardle75]

It is the wording that is important. As you know, the legislation states "the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members" but it does not state that the land is for the exclusive use of the organisation's members. That is the argument which I put forward to Natural England (as did the MCC which never restricted use of its CLs (including those in the Nightstop scheme that it runs with Practical Motorhome magazine) to its members). Defra/Natural England accepted that argument after studying the legislation again.

There were a couple of threads back in 2014 Here and Here.

Cool. I don't think is was the intention of the legislators, but it is quite badly worded. They weren't as switched on in 1960 in how to write things in a watertight manner. And I think this was one of those kneejerk "Dangerous Dogs Act" type bills that didn't get enough scrutiny.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Alfie159]

Well that’s the good bit. Very rural, very private with amazing views down to Anglesey This was last night’s sunset!

View attachment 536635

I’d pay £20 for such a gorgeous location and peace

 

[Kerrone]

running a CL ourselves as previously mentioned you would need an electrical certificate. Another issue is waste disposal unless you have an understanding council collection service, ours allow 3 bags a fortnight. You will be surprised how quickly your bins will fill. We have a waste contract collection £65 every 2 weeks (5 van site)
Good luck with your venture

 

[robert groves]

Will I?

The answer is YES !....have a 'landlords' pre-pay meter fitted, and ANY installation must beinstalled (and checked yearly) by a 'Qualified Person'...Given the (scuse the pun) current 'epedemic of Litigation',...It Will cost you thousands if anybody gets electrocuted,...and if your insurace company discovers that the installation does not have a 'fit-for-purpose' cert, then you will be on your own.
I thought of doing the same with my driveway and having a car-charging point installed with an extra 13 amp socket for overnight stayers. Cheapest quote was £2400,..so you will need a lot of overnight stays just to get your outlay back.

Then there is the 'Nosy-Neighbour' syndrome...check your local council by-laws for allowing people to rent your driveway,..in my area, we can only rent for a certain number of days per year.
So,..for £10 per night,...is it worth it ?

 

[gpat]

Ahh ignorance is best, I didn’t know so I cannot get into trouble.

I'm not ignorant. You explain the risk to me.

 

[Jim]

I'm not ignorant. You explain the risk to me.

If a fire is caused in ANY WAY while hooked up, you'd better have a current inspection chit

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gpat]

A motorhome is a portable device. It is not a fixed appliance and therefore the electricity regulations do not apply do they?

I cant see any scenario where plugging into someones EHU is dangerous other than if that EHU is not earthed. Even then it's a longshot, or very low risk. However that risk could easily be mitigated by having an external EHU fitted by a qualified electrician who would check the earth continuity as part of the installation.

If your customer plugs into that but has a fault with his motorhome that causes it to catch fire then you would have no liability whatsoever.

That level of risk becomes of a similar to level as if your house falls over and crushes your customer are you liable. Well yes you are, but the likelihood becomes infitesimally small.

ImO of course

 

[eddie]

We own a campsite and the rules are clear, and nowhere do the rules say ‘only if it’s a big site’ or equally nowhere does it say ‘only if it’s a small site and your doing it for a bit of cash on the side’ so:-

We have to have public liability insurance
We have to have the electrics tested and signed off every three years
We have to have the boilers inspected annually
We have to pay for commercial waste disposal
We have to pay rates as a campsite
We have to pay commercial water rates as a campsite
We have to have a fire policy
We have to have an annual fire inspection by an approved fire company
We have to have a three year inspection by the fire brigade

Now, I know that not every campsite and CL will do all of these things, but it’s when everything goes tits up that the demands to see the necessary documents come.

 

[chaser]

In my opinion, you are going to be a loser all round with just one spot, ok, £10 a night sounds like a good little earner, but how many nights are you going to get anyone on?
And you are going to need some sort of insurance even if you don't go the whole hog, you would have to be there to oversee them , what if they damage your gate or something, soon going to make a dent in your tenners, and as to electric in the tenner you are soon going to be running at a loss.
I know you are well intentioned but you could soon get some sort of lumber and for just one a night it's not going to be worth the hassle.

 

[GJH]

Cool. I don't think is was the intention of the legislators, but it is quite badly worded. They weren't as switched on in 1960 in how to write things in a watertight manner. And I think this was one of those kneejerk "Dangerous Dogs Act" type bills that didn't get enough scrutiny.

I don't think either of those factors apply
The wording is a little loose in this case, perhaps, but in general the Act is watertight. It has been reviewed numerous times since first passed and that paragraph has never been altered.
For from being a "keen jerk", the Bill which led to the Act was based on a report by Sir Arton Wilson which took around a year to produce and was well scrutinised. See the report of the second reading, for instance, at https://api.parliament.uk/historic-...r/24/caravan-sites-and-control-of-development

 

[MisterB]

I welcome known (and/or approved) (dog-less) Funsters to park up on my small orchard, at the end of a rough-ish track, in the very rural part of Central Portugal if they want to experience a bit of peace and quiet.

Absolutely no charge whatsoever. None.

I offer no services (except water).
I have no insurance or permission.
All visitors stay totally at their own risk, and therefore not really suitable for the very, very cautious, worrying folk who are always glass half empty types!

The thought of trying to jump through all those hoops to get official approval for paying guests makes my head hurt... and anyway... what would I do with any money collected?

The authorities don't even know I am here!

JJ

We have also allowed funsters to stay on oiur drive for free, there is water and waste point to empty chemical toilet. There's also a plug socket outside that we don't mind anyone using at their own risk. Perhaps if we do it again we shouldn't even mention the electricity supply ..... So long as whoever stayed cut the lawns for us we were happy !

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[steve69]

I would say £15 per night. Water supply but no hook up due to elf 'n safety. Black waste? If you have a sewer cover that can easily be lifted, fine. Otherwise would you want anyone to empty their cassette in your toilet?