Advice please, New Motorhome sink draining issues. Right to return!

[Servo]

Can you give a couple of Elddis dealers a call and ask if they’d experienced issues with the sink? I can’t imagine many people putting up with the problem so if the dealers haven’t heard about issues it may narrow it down to being a blockage rather than a design fault.

Did you see the plumbing when they removed the fridge?

As I said earlier, if I were you I’d collect your vehicle. Leave a letter with the dealer saying something along the lines of you need to store it at home to comply with your insurance t’s&c’s (which is probably true) and that you are taking the matter further, despite removing the vehicle from their premises.

Once home you could do a little bit of investigation yourself - perhaps taking the fridge out, etc. Hopefully your holiday plans won’t be ruined.

Good luck!

He will need it if he starts ripping Motorhome apart quote “ sorry sir fridge stated fire the one that you removed again sorry you are not covered on the insurance or warranty , again sorry” guess what £49000 down .

 

[138go]

It’s all down to trying to cram too much into a small space. They could have left the top drawer out and had room for the drain. It’s an appalling design gaff. Perhaps now they have been taken over by Hymer someone will put it right.

We have covers for both sinks to give us some workspace.

Laika certainly know how to do it. Sink waste is domestic pipe as are the water traps.

 

[Lazyboy]

Definitely a design fault and I have to agree that we as consumers should not continually put up with such things. Only when we all start to let all dealers know that we should be getting goods "fit for purpose" will they start to take any notice. Why should the customer have to redesign his kitchen? It would appear that there is a known problem and yet the manufacturer continues to churn out shite vehicles!! No doubt working on the principle that we bought it to use so will either put up with it or modify/repair ourselves. I wonder how the manufacturers and dealers will feel when the current "bubble bursts" and they have to fight for our business through good quality aftersales support. Can you imagine how the likes of John Lewis would have survived offering this type of aftersales support. How many of us would put up with it if it was a motor car? Don't tell me it is a complicated piece of equipment with many different component suppliers therefore it adds to the complexity of support and repair because a car is the same and far more complex. The biggest issue as I see it is that the manufacturers have never used the products they make and they do not get tested. Rejection is a big decision to take but I have to respect Waynesmith for deciding that this is the solution to resolve his problem. I sincerely hope that if it goes legal that he gets a good brief with excellent legal skills and common sense to understand the functionality of a motorhome. I wish him every success in taking his dealer to task. My advice though would be not to leave his van with the dealer until the dispute is resolved. It is his van on his insurance and they do not have to accept any liability unless there is an agreement in writing confirming that whilst in their care they will take full liability for it.
Rant over. I feel a lot better for that and I have only had one small beer!!

 

[Servo]

He will need it if he starts ripping Motorhome apart quote “ sorry sir fridge stated fire the one that you removed again sorry you are not covered on the insurance or warranty , again sorry” guess what £49000 down .

To add to this quote” sorry sir damp caused by you altering pipe work no claim” how do I know , been involved with lots of warranty work and I have seen it all , sorry to sound cruel but these are the facts ask any dealer.

 

[Sandancers]

OP, do you have "legal assistance" on your MH insurance ? If so, maybe they would back you on this with free legal advice at least ?

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[138go]

Don’t forget the Legal Team at the Caravan & Motorhome Club

 

[Speve]

I agree, the location above the fridge is a red herring. There is plenty of room - see the image I posted above of the underside of our sink. We even have room for egg cups below it.

I think that’s very easy to say when you have shown your sink does not have a fridge underneath it that pipe would have to go behind the fridge down to the floor if there is enough room? And in my experience there will be very little space so the pipe could be crushed (poor design IMHO)?

 

[DBK]

I think that’s very easy to say when you have shown your sink does not have a fridge underneath it that pipe would have to go behind the fridge down to the floor if there is enough room? And in my experience there will be very little space so the pipe could be crushed (poor design IMHO)?

The pipe doesn't have to go behind the fridge. I'll be surprised if it does but the routing of the pipe is down to the manufacturer. It is up to them to design the installation so it works

 

[Speve]

The pipe doesn't have to go behind the fridge. I'll be surprised if it does but the routing of the pipe is down to the manufacturer. It is up to them to design the installation so it works

Having not seen the space available on OPs van don’t really know if there is space anywhere else, however he does have the fridge directly below the sink unlike yours where you have the space of the drawer below admittedly it needs to slide open but not so restricting as a solid fridge top.?

 

[Waynesmith]

Don’t forget the Legal Team at the Caravan & Motorhome Club

Just also called them as I'm a member and they said ive done the right thing by rejecting and returning the motorhome to them.

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[Camping Gaza]

In engineering we quickly learned there are two four letter words which should never be used;

The first is JUST, as in "can you just xxxx while you are there" which means it won't be straightforward and it won't be a quick job.

The second is MUST, as in"the fault must be in there" which means that you will spend lots of time looking for a fault in the wrong place.

Well all I can say is that you must have been pretty rotten at your job, have you forgotten, or never learned the first and most important word known to all who hold the title "Engineer"...

Oooohgonnacostya.

 

[TerryL]

Can't help thinking that the problem is a crushed pipe behind the fridge. After having mine out a couple of times there doesn't seem to be any room behind it for pipes etc. It would be interesting to ask the dealer if they had actually taken the fridge out to check the run of the waste pipe?

In our Swift the sink doesn't drain very quickly unless we give the waste water a quick swirl at the plughole. I've checked it all out and the problem is insufficient fall on the first section of pipe, which unfortunately I can do nothing about. But once it gets going it drains at a very respectable rate.

My thoughts are to take the fridge out and have a look or preferably, to ensure the question of warranty etc is covered, get a professional motorhome engineer to do it and do a report.

Out of interest just one final question for the OP - if the problem was resolved would you then be happy to "accept" the motorhome?

 

[Speve]

The pipe doesn't have to go behind the fridge. I'll be surprised if it does but the routing of the pipe is down to the manufacturer. It is up to them to design the installation so it works

Of course my other thought is if the fridge is vented to outside then that space should be sealed to prevent fumes entering the inside of the van, so as you say doubtful if it does go down the back.?

 

[Speve]

Just looked at a video for 196 and looks like the only place the waste can go is down the back of the drawer unit between the fridge and the cooker? Might be worth taking out the drawers to see if pipe is restricted there somehow??

 

[Waynesmith]

Out of interest just one final question for the OP - if the problem was resolved would you then be happy to "accept" the motorhome?

That's a hard question to answer now.
Ive lost all faith in the dealership, and Elddis for not helping me.
Pains me to say this but its almost turned into a matter of principle now after being told twice it draining so it is technically working is a big kick in the ......... it made me feel like the stupid one, as my video shows clearly its not draining the way a sink should.
I loved the motor home but if somehow they fixed it it would leave a feeling of dread inside me if any other issues needed fixing in the future and I needed to return to them for a repair.
a different brand from a different dealer I feel is needed.

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[Waynesmith]

Just looked at a video for 196 and looks like the only place the waste can go is down the back of the drawer unit between the fridge and the cooker? Might be worth taking out the drawers to see if pipe is restricted there somehow??

any chance you could share this video please

 

[Linda and Steph]

It’s a small pipe and there isn’t an overflow, this means the air can’t escape thus slows the water flow. Give the water a quick swirl around the plug hole, the vortex will allow air to escape through the centre and the water will run much quicker.

 

[Larrynwin]

Screenshot of current Brownhills ad for Elddis Evolution, the sink again directly above the undercounter fridge, same problem?

 

[pelican]

You don't get this problem on a boat as the pipe goes out the side just below the sink!

 

[Mike800966]

If you have rejected it properly and legally then perhaps you can take it back to its insured storage space but dont start taking things apart until the matter is resolved legally.
Have a similar problem with slow sink drain. The section under the sink is close to the top of the oven and it was overheating the plastic trap, a square of fibreglass solved that. Also they used a sort of plastic s shaped guide to form a water trap to stop smell coming back up and I realigned the pipe thru that. Still slow but its a big flat bottomed sink. We prefer to park drivers seat lowest but its something you learn.
Good luck, let us know how it evolves
Mike

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[mark49]

People need to stop recommending getting this issue fixed then invoicing the dealers, if the people repairing the fault were to cause some other fault during the repair, what then?
Stick with the rejection, if it’s a well known fault, you should win or they’ll be given an opportunity to fix which apparently can’t be successfully carried out. So the rejection would stand.

 

[Minxy]

Where's the video?

 

[Happy Jim]

Where's the video?

Post #78

 

[Allanm]

Frustrating as it is, I would be inclined to try and get it fixed myself ( or get a proper tradesman to look at it) or take a bowl with me to wash up in. I can’t believe every model of this type has the same design “issue or there would be dozens of similar posts in the internet.
We had draining issues with the sink in our Autosleeper. If the van wasn’t facing uphill, it would take forever to drain, then all of a sudden, one February evening in deepest France, it drained quickly....making the floor wet! The waste pipe had come apart at a joint under the sink.
I had to remove cupboards and drawers to get to the pipe and noticed the horizontal part of the pipe was angled uphill. A couple of centimetres cut off the down pipe and lots of glue on the un glued joints and everything worked fine, and no loss of warranty.
Poor design by Autosleeper but just a few minutes for me to fix it.

We see lots of vans on perfectly level ground at strange angles with the front wheels on levelling blocks. Perhaps they have sink draining issues too.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I wouldn't change my plans because a sink would not drain, as others have said take a bowl.

The problem seems to be a blockage or air lock, have it fixed when it suits you - after the holidays.

Involving a solicitor may get the dealer's attention, or not - it could just prolong sorting the issue.

If you return the vehicle to the dealer he will have sorted it before you get to court, then what?

Use the van, enjoy your trips knowing that you wont have to empty a smelly waste tank - I'm actually considering leaving the waste tap open every time I stop, letting the waste drain into a bucket and chucking the contents into the nearest hedgerow before I set off.

Chucking a bowl full of washing up water until you get it fixed or miss out on the planned trips?

I know what I'd do

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[PeteH]

Not an Elldis but in my Rapido the kitchen sink is a long way from the waste tank. In its normal front down attitude on level ground drainage is very slow. Raising the front a bit it drains fine. I always like to find a parking place with a slight slope.

I notice the Vast majority of `vans on Alko Chassis, have a "nose down" tendency, not just confined to any specific make. The Size of the Fittings being smaller than "domestic" is a big factor in slow draining, that and an accumulation of detritus in the system. I tend to use a chemical "Drain Unblocker" periodically which helps.

My gut feeling, in this case, is with the O-P. ANY design fault is the Makers Issue and should be resolved. The first contact is the Supplying Dealer. If as I suspect it is "not fit for purpose". Then rejection IS entirely in order under the "sale of good acts". The DEALER should replace or re-imberse. I would take it up with Trading Standards. Especially if there is record of similar prior issues with this Brand of Motorhome.

We had a Caravan where the sink was above the the refrigerator, the waste connection exited at 90 degrees immediately above the frig leaving no room for manoever, it was a slow drain but IMV due mainly to the size of the Bore of the Pipework used.

 

[138go]

I would follow the advice from C&MC. If you are not happy with the quality and service you have received that’s your call. Trying to fix something that evidently has a design fault is not your problem.

Motorhomes as we all know are built by craftsman in state of the art facilities using the best quality materials and fittings. The truth is somewhat different and very much controlled by the Bean Counter sitting in his office who only flies away to exotic locations and would never ever think of spending his holiday in a small tin box. Especially one from his own factory.

Today it’s all about the bottom line. Everybody in the chain is making a profit so what arrives at the end of a production line has been decided on a spread sheet with every screw and squeeze of silicone taken into consideration. Wages form a massive part of the equation so the craftsmen have to go to be replaced by Apprentices earning £4 an hour looked after by a guy who has had a couple of weeks training on how to use a glue gun.

Oh nearly forgot HMRC has their cut which is something like 16% of the purchase price.

 

[Speve]

any chance you could share this video please

it was only a review video of the van by a magazine and did not show any of the pipework. Just google Elddis 196 Motorhome ?but it gave me an idea of your layout and where the cupboards etc were. Hence my post.?

 

[olley]

50 grand and some of you suggest using a bowl and emptying it out the door! I wish I could have had customers like you when I was fitting kitchens.

 

[chaser]

Have you tried having the grey water tap open, does that help if it does there must be a blockage in the overflow somewhere.

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