Advice on changing batteries to LiFePo please

[Ditcha]

Just finished re-routing my battery cable.



Should do the job

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Just finished re-routing my battery cable.

View attachment 584977

Should do the job

Thought that was your diesel heater fuel pipe.

 

[Tombola]

I agree. But when I passed that message on to the wallet it is still saying no

Youve got your plan all wrong peterc10
remove fuse from hair dryer, switch off some 12v appliances.
What darling? oh dear the batteries are on the way out

I had that problem recently, I fancied an OLED TV in the end I bought it and told 'er indoors afterwards.

this man has the brains

 

[the1andonly]

peterc10 Do you really need 2 batteries now? Buy one now if wallet says yes then use for a year and now you are committed (just layout for an easy addition). It s not enough my love we need another or we'll kill this quick, i made a mistake. (the wallet will be more forgiving in a year and use the same brand /size and the batteries wont mind).

 

[peterc10]

peterc10 Do you really need 2 batteries now? Buy one now if wallet says yes then use for a year and now you are committed (just layout for an easy addition). It s not enough my love we need another or we'll kill this quick, i made a mistake. (the wallet will be more forgiving in a year and use the same brand /size and the batteries wont mind).

Take a risk on different specifications and characteristics next year which may cause problems. At this time I think it is all or nothing

The wallet can afford it, but I just have to convince it that there are no pockets in shrouds.

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[the1andonly]

well toss a coin,
best of 5 if necessary

 

[Wagoneer]

As I said in post #2 - don't overstress yourself prior to your next trip. You'll get the lithium sorted eventually in your own time. As Lenny said, best to disable the split charge relay. That was the biggest sticking point in my B2B installation (and time consuming exercise).

When my wife needs to use the hairdryer, we just check into a campsite...job done

 

[the1andonly]

When my wife needs to use the hairdryer, we just check into a campsite...job done

When my wife needs to use the hairdryer, i just pass her the towel

 

[Beast]

I have a 2015 Hymer B678 on a Fiat base with the Iveco 3 litre engine. I am looking to replace the 2 x 95Ah AGM batteries that we have had since new. They have never let us down (touch wood) and are still working but I expect their capacity has decreased in the 6 years or so we have used them. And I don't want them to let go suddenly when we are away in Europe. The obvious, simplest and cheapest option is to replace them with two Gels of similar capacity and size. But I have a hankering for Lithiums. And KS have a single 200Ah lithium battery that may fit snuggly in the space of one of the existing batteries leaving me with some spare storage space to fill!

We usually stop at places that do not have EHU, but on the few times it is on offer we will take it. The solar panels seem to keep us going in the South of Europe in spring and autumn and in the UK in the summer. We rarely use the motorhome in winter and if we do it is usually on EHU. We are not heavy electric users and the only thing we use our 2000W/4000W invertor for is drying my wife's hair with a 1200W hairdryer once every 3 or 4 days. When not being used the motorhome is kept on our property and is always plugged into our electrics. I have a BMV 700 battery monitor that I use regularly to check the state of the batteries and I don't think they have ever gone below 50% of capacity.

So I am looking for advice from all of you battery gurus please before I take the plunge. I don't really want to change anything else unless I have to. I do not need the very best out of the set up, as long as I am not doing any damage. I am also planning to DIY fit the battery but would not have the courage to start fitting new chargers, B2Bs etc. And I want to get it done in the next few weeks, before our planned European adventure (the first for over 2 years).

My present set up uses a Schaudt EBL 29 with choice of "lead acid" or "Gel" for mains charging. I also have 250W of solar going through a Schaudt LRM1218 MPPT solar regulator with a choice of lead acid, Gel or AGM. KS say that the charging voltage should be 14.4V and 13.2V - 13.3V float voltage. I think my Schaudt gear produces 14.4V on both lead acid and Gel settings with a charge retention voltage (is that the same as float?) of 13.4V on lead acid for 4 hours or 13.8V on gel for 12 hours. Will one or other of those be OK do you think, and if so which?

My guess is that I have a beefed up alternator but not a smart one (Lenny HB may be able to confirm that). I know the wiring is thick enough to produce at least 20A when the batteries need it, and probably more. So can I make do without having to fit a B2B?

Finally I would ask those that have KS batteries what they think of them and the company.

Many thanks for any help you are able to offer.

1x 100ah lithium £400, its a no brainer for me.

 

[Skipper43]

I replaced our two 80ah Gel Batteries with 2x 120 ah Lithium, from KS Energy, last year. I rang and spoke to them first and gave them details of my charging unit/ vehicle etc. They were very helpful and checked the figures of my charger against their product and advised me to use the standard lead acid setting (I had the choice of Gel) to better match the float charge required. I ordered the batteries which were promptly delivered. It was easy to replace my gel batteries, in the battery box, by just laying the new ones on their side and moving the end restraining bracket. I am very pleased with the batteries, which have made a big difference, and the service from KS Energy. Initially I was using the Blue-Tooth frequently to check on the performance but soon relaxed and just enjoy them now

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[Pausim]

I replaced our two 80ah Gel Batteries with 2x 120 ah Lithium, from KS Energy, last year. I rang and spoke to them first and gave them details of my charging unit/ vehicle etc. They were very helpful and checked the figures of my charger against their product and advised me to use the standard lead acid setting (I had the choice of Gel) to better match the float charge required. I ordered the batteries which were promptly delivered. It was easy to replace my gel batteries, in the battery box, by just laying the new ones on their side and moving the end restraining bracket. I am very pleased with the batteries, which have made a big difference, and the service from KS Energy. Initially I was using the Blue-Tooth frequently to check on the performance but soon relaxed and just enjoy them now

Interesting advice concerning the mains charger, having looked again at the CBE 516 details I think I will switch from Gel to Pb acid. The Li battery doesn’t need to be fully charged when on hook up and my B2B means it always arrives on site fully charged anyway.

 

[Prop]

We have recently updated our setup to lithium, we had 100w solar, a feed to leisure battery when on hook up , and a split charger from the engine.
We we got a battery from Roamer and we needed a new Solar controller with lithium setting and a B2B charger but was told by roamer that our feed from the control panel when on hook up would be OK if it was not connected for weeks on end and it would only charge the battery to 80%.
Hope that helps.

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[Ian Bosman]

Best advice I can offer is, if you've only got a few weeks before departure...leave it and do it when you return. By the time you've bought all the cable and stuff + installation, there won't be sufficient time for proper testing of the system.

My Hymer B544 (bought new in 2002) always charged at a consistent 14.4 volts. Sold it 10 years later with the same batteries (gel).

By comparison, my current van has a very poor charging system (CBE), rarely reaching 13.8 volts. Installed a B2B and now charges the hab batteries at 14.4 volts.

All I'm saying is, be grateful for your Schaudt charging system, it does what it says on the tin, haha !!! You've also got solar.

Go away as planned and don't over-stress yourself with last minute jobs

My CBE charger goes up to 14.4 volts so check the CBE charger model as may need updating to anotherl

 

[Pausim]

My CBE charger goes up to 14.4 volts so check the CBE charger model as may need updating to anotherl

My CBE 516 gives 14.4/13.8V(8 hour float) or 14.1/13.5V(90 min. float). Neither will fully charge the Li battery but that doesn’t do any harm and matters not a jot when on hook up. I think I will swap to the lower voltage and shorter float.

 

[funflair]

My CBE 516 gives 14.4/13.8V(8 hour float) or 14.1/13.5V(90 min. float). Neither will fully charge the Li battery but that doesn’t do any harm and matters not a jot when on hook up. I think I will swap to the lower voltage and shorter float.

Why do you say that neither charge regime will fully charge a Lithium?

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[Lenny HB]

My CBE 516 gives 14.4/13.8V(8 hour float) or 14.1/13.5V(90 min. float). Neither will fully charge the Li battery but that doesn’t do any harm and matters not a jot when on hook up. I think I will swap to the lower voltage and shorter float.

I think you are getting confused between Float & Absorption.
On the Gel setting it will charge to 14.4v they stay at 14,4v for 8 hours the absorption phase, then it will drop permanently to a 13.8v float voltage.

 

[Pausim]

I think you are getting confused between Float & Absorption.
On the Gel setting it will charge to 14.4v they stay at 14,4v for 8 hours the absorption phase, then it will drop permanently to a 13.8v float voltage.

Correct, my mistake. I put it down to age and the increasing tension caused by the Olympic curling competition.

 

[Pausim]

Why do you say that neither charge regime will fully charge a Lithium?

The manufacturer’s charging curves for my Li battery peak and plateau at 14.6V but I don’t care if it is not fully charged when on a hook up. I only need it full when I arrive somewhere without a hook up. The length of the absorption phase is probably more important and the shorter the better.

 

[Lenny HB]

Correct, my mistake. I put it down to age and the increasing tension caused by the Olympic curling competition.

Oh, I didn't know the Olympics had started.

 

[funflair]

The manufacturer’s charging curves for my Li battery peak and plateau at 14.6V but I don’t care if it is not fully charged when on a hook up. I only need it full when I arrive somewhere without a hook up. The length of the absorption phase is probably more important and the shorter the better.

Ah OK, ours is looking for 14.4v as a bulk charge and the Roamer underseat linked above is wanting 14.2v with a maximum of 14.6v, what batteries are you using?

I also noticed this,

6500 cycles @ 50% Depth of Discharge (25°C)
3500 cycles @ 80% Depth of Discharge (25°C)
2000 cycles @ 100% Depth of Discharge (25°C)

I know a big selling point for LiFePO4 is the ability to discharge very low but it does seem to come at a cost.

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[Pausim]

Ah OK, ours is looking for 14.4v as a bulk charge and the Roamer underseat linked above is wanting 14.2v with a maximum of 14.6v, what batteries are you using?

I also noticed this,

6500 cycles @ 50% Depth of Discharge (25°C)
3500 cycles @ 80% Depth of Discharge (25°C)
2000 cycles @ 100% Depth of Discharge (25°C)

I know a big selling point for LiFePO4 is the ability to discharge very low but it does seem to come at a cost.

I have a Relion battery. They give this graph for cycle life.

 

[peterc10]

Thank you all for your advice. I just want to report back on what I am doing about all of this, as it always drives me round the bend when posters ask for and get lots of advice and then do not bother reporting back

I have decided to go to Europe next month with the set up we have now. I want to keep an eye on it especially as to how much charging I am getting from the existing alternator when the batteries get low. When we get back I will probably buy a couple of the KS 120Ah lithium batteries along with a Victronic solar regulator and maybe a B2B as well. I will then probably fit them myself, given that it will be a very easy install. That should serve us well on our rallying trips in the summer and a return to Europe in the Autumn.

 

[Chrisvh]

My problem was the amount of charge from the alternator. It was insufficient to charge batteries and run fridge/freezer. Installed a Votronic VCC 1212-50 B2B and it completely solved the problem.
I did the same as you suggest and monitored everything on a long trip. After that I was confident with what I required.

 

[peterc10]

My problem was the amount of charge from the alternator. It was insufficient to charge batteries and run fridge/freezer. Installed a Votronic VCC 1212-50 B2B and it completely solved the problem.
I did the same as you suggest and monitored everything on a long trip. After that I was confident with what I required.

Was that because of the size of your cables? Mine runs the fridge freezer and still has enough to push in 20amps to charge the batteries. That 20 amps is what I have seen before on my BMV, but I want to check and see whether that was just a fluke, or whether it could do more. I have a 160A alternator and thick cables capable of handling 50A into the EBL, so it may be that I will get even more with the batteries at a lower level of charge to start with.

 

[Lenny HB]

Was that because of the size of your cables? Mine runs the fridge freezer and still has enough to push in 20amps to charge the batteries. That 20 amps is what I have seen before on my BMV, but I want to check and see whether that was just a fluke, or whether it could do more. I have a 160A alternator and thick cables capable of handling 50A into the EBL, so it may be that I will get even more with the batteries at a lower level of charge to start with.

With the Hymer standard split charge set up I've topped 45amps into the leisure batteries.

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[bilM]

Some pictures of how my lithium is set up in my Hymer (EBL30) had three AGM batteries now two 110ah lithiums. Most of the EBL is bypassed.

 

[jongood]

peterc10 I think you re doing absolutely the right thing in not trying to get this done before your forthcoming trip. Having got a reasonable idea of what you think you want to do, its a brilliant opportunity to study the whatifs
,
There seems a lot of concerns about mains chargers. I'm not familiar with EBL, can you not turn the charger off? I'm guessing most people going Lithium would already have maxed the Solar and as Lithium doesnt like sitting at a full charge, wouldn't they be better off letting the solar do its job, turning the charger on only when the Lithium gets really low? I do this now with my aging Gels and dont often turn it on.

 

[Lenny HB]

I do this now with my aging Gels and dont often turn it on.

Must be classed as antiques by now.

 

[jongood]

Must be classed as antiques by now.

I shouldnt be tempting fate:- but just been away for a couple of months, off EHU quite a bit, hitting them pretty hard using a lot of mains equipment and they re hanging on well at the moment.

 

[Chrisvh]

Was that because of the size of your cables? Mine runs the fridge freezer and still has enough to push in 20amps to charge the batteries. That 20 amps is what I have seen before on my BMV, but I want to check and see whether that was just a fluke, or whether it could do more. I have a 160A alternator and thick cables capable of handling 50A into the EBL, so it may be that I will get even more with the batteries at a lower level of charge to start with.

Good point. I replaced the cables whilst fitting a new B2B and mains charger. Very pleased with the result. We tend to move on every one or two days and now the batteries are fully topped up with only a couple of hours of driving. A big improvement when the solar is not such a factor. Summer will not be an issue.

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