Advice on changing batteries to LiFePo please

I am sorry but I don't see what is wrong with world trade. Shipping in huge vessels is more economical than using lots more smaller ones both in terms of money and carbon footprint.

I am afraid that I haven't got the time to wait for lithium batteries to be made somewhere in Europe nor the willingness to pay the inevitable premium price. Having said that, if I do change to lithiums, I am planning to buy a new B2B and solar regulator, both made in Germany.
I don't have a problem with world trade, its the incredibly high proportion that comes from a one party authoritarian state that punishes free speech and doesn't even care for its own citizens that bothers me.

Sorry to turn it political but I can't help but find it ironic that other producers are claiming to be respecting china's copyrights, while exercising the opportunity to take the extra profits.
 
I am afraid that I haven't got the time to wait for lithium batteries to be made somewhere in Europe nor the willingness to pay the inevitable premium price. Having said that, if I do change to lithiums, I am planning to buy a new B2B and solar regulator, both made in Germany.
From Chinese components.:LOL:
 
Well this evening I ran a draw down test on my batteries. I did it after dark to avoid solar charging. I switched off the EHU and let the batteries settled for about 45 minutes before starting the test. All the readings I am quoting come from the BMV 700 battery monitor.

As I have said before I have 2 x 95Ah (at C20) Exide AGM batteries which are just over 6 years old.

I started with the voltage at 13.0V, and the batteries showing as being 100% full. I then switched all the lights on, which showed as approximately a 5.5A draw on my BMV. I left all the lights on for 4 hours and I then checked again. The BMV showed I had drawn a total 22.1Ah, the battery voltage was 12.4V and that the batteries were 76% full. I then switched all the lights off and left it for an hour for the battery to get back to rest. On checking again the draw was now 22.6Ah (I guess that was because of background draw), the voltage had gone up to 12.6V and the battery was now 75.7% full.

The figures from the battery percentages seem to suggest that my total battery bank capacity has dropped over a half to about 90Ah. If that is the case Lenny HB will be saying I told you so :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:. However, the voltage figures seem to suggest that the capacity may be higher.

What do you experts think please? Are my batteries reaching the end of the road?
The resting voltage of AGM's is higher than ordinary lead acid so your batteries are probably in a worse state than you think.
The percentage readout on a BMV is often inaccurate unless you have spent a lot of time tweaking the settings and been able to confirm its accuracy. Knowing you Peter I doubt if you have even bothered to adjust the capacity annually to allow for natural degradation of the batteries let alone adjusting any of the other settings to suit your batteries.
To get a better picture you need to do a longer test at the C20 rate which for you would be approx a 10 amp load, & a battery capacity of 163ah (age adjustment).

It's normally considered a battery is best replaced when it's capacity falls to 80%.
 
The resting voltage of AGM's is higher than ordinary lead acid so your batteries are probably in a worse state than you think.
The percentage readout on a BMV is often inaccurate unless you have spent a lot of time tweaking the settings and been able to confirm its accuracy. Knowing you Peter I doubt if you have even bothered to adjust the capacity annually to allow for natural degradation of the batteries let alone adjusting any of the other settings to suit your batteries.
To get a better picture you need to do a longer test at the C20 rate which for you would be approx a 10 amp load, & a battery capacity of 163ah (age adjustment).

It's normally considered a battery is best replaced when it's capacity falls to 80%.
Lenny HB As you well know I would much rather enjoy myself, than fiddling with things I don't understand. I thought the Peukert's whatsit that the BMV uses takes into account degradation. But you must remember I am a civil engineer, which is an oxymoron, because I am not really an engineer and I am are rarely civil. :ROFLMAO:

I can understand that the % readouts can be inaccurate, but I assumed that the volt and amps measurements would be reasonably accurate. So what does 12.6V tell me about the approximate state of charge on AGM batteries after using 22Ah from fully charged and then resting for an hour please? In fact looking at my notes again it was reading 12.67V, not 12.6V

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I am making my own up Peter fancied a project.

£170.40 30%OFF | CAHILL 3.2V 1-16PCS 280Ah Lifepo4 Cells Brand New Grade A Solar Battery DIY 12V 24V 48V For Electric Wheelchair EU US Tax Free
Bloody hell ......... And here I am struggling to understand whether or not my batteries need changing. You are a braver man than me (but then most are).
 
I am making my own up Peter fancied a project.

£170.40 30%OFF | CAHILL 3.2V 1-16PCS 280Ah Lifepo4 Cells Brand New Grade A Solar Battery DIY 12V 24V 48V For Electric Wheelchair EU US Tax Free
Let us know if you get caught for import tax & VAT.

Will you be checking the capacity before fitting as a lot of these cells are not always what they claim?

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I am making my own up Peter fancied a project.

£170.40 30%OFF | CAHILL 3.2V 1-16PCS 280Ah Lifepo4 Cells Brand New Grade A Solar Battery DIY 12V 24V 48V For Electric Wheelchair EU US Tax Free
[URL to unfurl="true"]https://a.aliexpress.com/_voN22Y[/URL]
The write up indicates no UK delivery ,Dave, are you having them delivered to somewhere in the EU to pick up on your travels?
Edit, sorry just reopened the link and yes they deliver to the uk .I saw similar on an Alibaba site but just unsure as whether what you get is as advertised and as said tax and import costs etc ,it would be interesting to find out.best of luck with your project. (y)
 
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Bloody hell ......... And here I am struggling to understand whether or not my batteries need changing. You are a braver man than me (but then most are).

Here's my latest home build Peter, 280Ah with a bluetooth BMS, it's all pretty simple stuff, no rocket science involved.

1644492106532.png
 
That photo will give peterc10 nightmares.:LOL:
That's exactly what is inside most prismatic lithium batteries without the fancy plastic box but you can get one of them if you want

£41.19 18%OFF | 12V 24V 48V DIY Kit Battery Box 100ah 120ah 200ah Li Ion Lifepo4 Lithium Battery Diy Solar Cells Waterproof Plastic Empty Case
 
That photo will give peterc10 nightmares.:LOL:
I've come out in a bloody rash all over. :oops:

Interesting point. What is the difference between prismatic cells and tubular cells? Which is better? Just comparing makes and prices.

Sod all this difficult stuff. I am off now to put up a blackout blind in the landing window of our house. That will keep me busy without having to think too much :ROFLMAO:
 
Let us know if you get caught for import tax & VAT.

Will you be checking the capacity before fitting as a lot of these cells are not always what they claim?
Will do but they say its all in don't know how the do it but loads of positive feedback, time will tell.

Going to do a capacity test plus top balance, they state at least 280ah capacity 🤞
 
I've come out in a bloody rash all over. :oops:

Interesting point. What is the difference between prismatic cells and tubular cells? Which is better? Just comparing makes and prices.

Sod all this difficult stuff. I am off now to put up a blackout blind in the landing window of our house. That will keep me busy without having to think too much :ROFLMAO:

Prismatic cells are what I have used and tubular cells are pretty much like your AA batteries to look at.
You will normally have 4 prismatic cells to make up a 12v battery, whereas you will likely have dozens of the tubular cells as they have a smaller capacity, so need many more to get to the same capacity of a prismatic cell.
 
Going to do a capacity test plus top balance, they state at least 280ah capacity 🤞

Check that they are matched with their internal resistance as this is important if the cells are going to stay in balance with each other when they charge or discharge.

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I thought the Peukert's whatsit that the BMV uses takes into account degradation.
No, Peukert’s whatsit makes an allowance for the rate you take amps out of the battery. If you are hammering your battery with a large inverter you will get a lot fewer amp hours out of it than if you are just running a few lights. The Ah given by battery manufacturers is based on a C20 rate, that is at a rate of 5A for a 100Ah battery, if you are drawing anything more than 5A the battery capacity effectively drops below 100Ah. Basic lead acid batteries are worse than more expensive ones with LiFePO4 the best.
 
No, Peukert’s whatsit makes an allowance for the rate you take amps out of the battery. If you are hammering your battery with a large inverter you will get a lot fewer amp hours out of it than if you are just running a few lights. The Ah given by battery manufacturers is based on a C20 rate, that is at a rate of 5A for a 100Ah battery, if you are drawing anything more than 5A the battery capacity effectively drops below 100Ah. Basic lead acid batteries are worse than more expensive ones with LiFePO4 the best.
Thanks

My existing batteries are AGMs which, as we all know, are Lenny HB 's favourites. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

One of the main reasons I am thinking of going for LiFePos, rather than the much cheaper Gels, is that they can accommodate a very high rate of discharge. Victron suggest that I should change the Peukert's whatsit to 1.05 (lead is set at 1.25) and set the efficiency factor to 99% (lead is set at 95%). The ones I am probably going to buy can take 150A out. I am not sure if that can be doubled up with 2 batteries. In any event the wife's hairdryer will only be taking 100A to 110A for 3 or 4 minutes.
 
free shipping but not free import duty unless it gets missed

None, you take your chance on that one, which is why I bought my cells from a UK vendor and he was English as well. (y)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
That's exactly what is inside most prismatic lithium batteries without the fancy plastic box but you can get one of them if you want

£41.19 18%OFF | 12V 24V 48V DIY Kit Battery Box 100ah 120ah 200ah Li Ion Lifepo4 Lithium Battery Diy Solar Cells Waterproof Plastic Empty Case
Makes it into a nice neat job.
 
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