Advice needed.

Simon Select

Simon Select

MH Trader
LIFE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Posts
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Location
Devon
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42,036
MH
A Class Coachbuilt
Exp
25 Years
So I have sold a 2020 Knaus panel van. Lovely van and a lovely couple. They live miles away and put a holding deposit on it subject to a test drive. They turned up drove it and loved it. 2 months later they have sent a 2 page email saying the van is not fit for purpose so they want a full refund. The reason being…. The captains chairs are not comfortable on long journeys.
Am I being unreasonable saying I reject the rejection? Just want some opinions!!!
Simon
 
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Either buyers' remorse or they've had their holidays for this year and don't want to have it sitting around over winter costing them money (insurance, depreciation etc). Either way they haven't a leg to stand on after 2 months and with such a minor issue, regardless of what they say uncomfortable seats isn't a genuine reason to reject especially after such a period of time and the fact that they test drove it. We had a new Nissan and I found the seats uncomfortable but we never once thought to reject it.

If you feel you want to do something rather than just say "no" outright, you could offer to take it back at a reduced price that reflects their usage as you can't sell it in the same condition that they bought it, that way you are not out of pocket, the probably still won't be happy but I don't think they will be unless you give them a full refund which I don't think you should.
 
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You can quote me * My Fiat seats are a dam site more comfortable and better made than the Renault ones* Suggest they get sheepskin covers!
 
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Twoleftfeet said:
Two months use and all of a sudden the seats are uncomfortable, Just ignore them, there just not worth the time of day, we really don't need people like this in the motorhome fraternity.
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Didn’t realise there was a committee to decide what type of people can join the motorhome fraternity.

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If you can manage it maybe a reasonable offer to buy it back knowing you can sell it on. Obviously rejecting them totally (even though it sounds like they don't have a reasonable claim) could result in online or physical abuse if they're like that. Annoying I know.
 
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A response to them might be, "sorry for the fact that you found the standard Fiat seats so uncomfortable,if you would like to return the vehicle to me in same condition it was at the time of collection I will reimburse you.
I will work out the charge for the hire of the vehicle whilst in your tenure, giving a very generous weekly rate, with no mileage restrictions incurred.Returns are also subject to a 10% restocking fee to cover Covid cleaning. I wonder if they'll still be as nice when their request is not accepted ?

Mike.
 
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I find the Fiat seats really uncomfortable for long journeys, but realised that as soon as I sat in them in the dealers. The seat squab just not long enough for my legs so all weight taken on my bum and none on my thighs . Even with the raised seat height of the swivel, it’s not high enough to allow my thighs to rest on the seat. However it it was even higher, I would see nothing at all out of the windscreen 😱
So bought as no real alternative.
 
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Jamesh said:
Suggest Volvo XC90 seats best around!

Cheers James
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dash300 said:
If the only fault I find on my new Van when it arrives is uncomfortable seats I reckon I would have had a result!(y)
I have had Volvo seats most of my driving life and they are sublimely comfortable armchairs. There is a Cinema in Stockholm with Volvo car seating throughout! So my expectation is that my Fiat Van seats are not going to be as comfortable as my Volvo's.
If that proves to be the case I either get used to it or I add it to the inevitable list of modifications one expects to do to suit our needs.
That reason alone stands on extremley weak legal ground for refund.
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I find the Volvo XC90 seats even worse than the Fiat. That split front seat just doesn’t come in the right place.
My old Volvo v70 was lovely and our current Lexus 450rxh just about right.
splat rugrats GIF
 
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I'm sure we don't have the full story if the claim took two pages to complete, but that does not matter.
I suggest you respond politely and with sympathy but you had offered no warranty with it (had you?) so it was sold as seen and any material faults should have been reported long ago. If they have taken care of the vehicle, they should be able to sell it on and recover their investment. The deal was done when they drove off, having tested it to their satisfaction, and any refunds are out of the question.
 
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two said:
I'm sure we don't have the full story if the claim took two pages to complete, but that does not matter.
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Oh I don't know, some funsters could write about the same thing constantly and take up many forum pages with ease. :LOL:
 
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If they have had it a couple of months I am sure your within your rights to say no return.
I thought a week would have been more than a reasonable trial .

ask a solicitor I am sure there just laugh as they bought a second hand motor.
you can not be responsible for the manufacturing or comfort of the vehicle.

unless you yourself gave them a written personal guarantee On comfort or any thing else on the email.

but it sounds to me like they have had a change in circumstances or found something cheaper.

the above is my personal opinion only.

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I have faced the same situation quite a few times, I've always found the best resolutions by good communication, and never admitting liability.

I preface this by saying, I'm sure the time limit for rejection has passed, however consumer law can best be described as varying shades of grey, outside of specific parts of legislation.

However to just dismiss the rejection, out of hand, could work against you should the case reach court.

Firstly I would try and find a remedy for the ' uncomfortable seats', such a reworking the foam, insertion of memory foam, etc, but don't offer to pay for it, but do try to be as accommodating as possible.

If that doesn't work offer the full invoice price of the vehicle, but only in part exchange.

If that doesn't work try selling the vehicle on their behalf as a sale or return, agreeing a set percentage or margin for yourself.

If that doesn't work out, try some form of independent consolidation, I think, but not sure ACAS, will get involved.

If that doesn't work inform your insurance company, and they will fight the case for you, so you're seen as hands off.

If it does end up going to court, keep all the paperwork, submit it in evidence, a judge has to take all the offers you have made, trying to resolve the issue, into account when reaching a decision.

ps Unless you are banged to rights, never send a letter with the heading' Without Prejudice' as it cannot be used in evidence
 
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I think there is another reason they do not want the van, the reason being nothing to do with the vehicle itself. But why would you want to give them a full refund if the seats are bad ?
 
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Tell them you will replace them with these =

Broken Link Removed

Wont find a comfy`er seat anywhere.. :xThumb:

But they will have to come down to Weymouth to collect them... :giggler:

Cannot give the bloody things away.... :xsad:.....:xangry:
 
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If the same type of van has had the same type of problem over a range of dealers then yes Id say it was unfit for purpose, but the measuring stick is very long.
Is he/she to fat for them, are they too tall, too thin, are they sitting on them for 8 hours per time blah blah.

they dont have a chance really and the onus is on them to prove the captains chairs are shite, and that the fault is inherent
 
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If, as Jim suggest, there is a profit or at least a break-even position due to rising prices, then the only thing stopping you from taking it back is a sense of fairness - they are not being fair. However if you do take the vehicle back, you are setting an awfully low bar for future rejections. Perhaps you might suggest they try to sell it through you for a fee - then there might be something for both of you?
 
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Conal said:
If, as Jim suggest, there is a profit or at least a break-even position due to rising prices, then the only thing stopping you from taking it back is a sense of fairness - they are not being fair. However if you do take the vehicle back, you are setting an awfully low bar for future rejections. Perhaps you might suggest they try to sell it through you for a fee - then there might be something for both of you?
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I would have thought that makes the original seller a dealer or have some financial interest in the van and then possibly liable for some sort of tax.

or even admits there liable for some sort of alleged problem.

but I still stand by if not mentioned or returned in a week tough luck . Sold as seen tried and tested before or on the day of collecting…
 
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sonar said:
I would have thought that makes the original seller a dealer or have some financial interest in the van and then possibly liable for some sort of tax.

or even admits there liable for some sort of alleged problem.

but I still stand by if not mentioned or returned in a week tough luck . Sold as seen tried and tested before or on the day of collecting…
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The original poster is a dealer
 
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Riverbankannie said:
I find the Fiat seats really uncomfortable for long journeys, but realised that as soon as I sat in them in the dealers. The seat squab just not long enough for my legs so all weight taken on my bum and none on my thighs . Even with the raised seat height of the swivel, it’s not high enough to allow my thighs to rest on the seat. However it it was even higher, I would see nothing at all out of the windscreen 😱
So bought as no real alternative.
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The thing I find on a long journey is, as there's no resistance on these 'fly by wire' throttles, instead of resting one's foot on it, one has to hold ones toes a few inches off the floor and after an hour or so (along M/ways especially) my legs start stiffening up with cramp.
Seriously thinking about a cruise control but it's another electrical thing to go wrong (and it costs money :eek:)

I find I can get more bum on seat if I slope the back more (IF you have the room?) and, mine has been more comfortable since I removed the swivel.
PS. you can purchase alternative seats but new ones are expensive
 
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L' Hobo said:
I find I can get more bum on seat if I slope the back more (IF you have the room?) and, mine has been more comfortable since I removed the swivel.
PS. you can purchase alternative seats but new ones are expensive
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Unfortunately the drivers seat backs onto the side of a cupboard so can neither push back seat nor rake it back. Considering removing swivel just for sight through windscreen but I am afraid it would feel even more like sitting on a child’s seat when you go to parents evening. I can adjust the passenger seat because of the space behind it in the sliding door.
As I said, we knew before we bought and it was just one of the compromises that we all make. We all go and sit in the driver’s seat and pretend to be off on our trips, don’t we? So I am surprised that the purchasers of Simon-Alan Kerr ‘s vehicle did not realise before purchase.
I don’t think that there can be any grounds for rejection.
 
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OK OK I realise that I have been a knob, have had a couple of good trips out in the camper and decided that motorhoming isn't for us and we're more "Hotel" people!

Just thought I'd try it on and get our money back

So I reject my rejection, that you'd reject if you had any sense!
 
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eddievanbitz said:
OK OK I realise that I have been a knob, have had a couple of good trips out in the camper and decided that motorhoming isn't for us and we're more "Hotel" people!

Just thought I'd try it on and get our money back

So I reject my rejection, that you'd reject if you had any sense!
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Exactly,if they had just been honest and said that in the first place it would all be over by now!

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Simon-Alan Kerr said:
So I have sold a 2020 Knaus panel van. Lovely van and a lovely couple. They live miles away and put a holding deposit on it subject to a test drive. They turned up drove it and loved it. 2 months later they have sent a 2 page email saying the van is not fit for purpose so they want a full refund. The reason being…. The captains chairs are not comfortable on long journeys.
Am I being unreasonable saying I reject the rejection? Just want some opinions!!!
Simon
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Given you have asked the question I think shows you are a reputable salesman, even considering such a question shows integrity.

My take on this is if they are the standard Fiat seats then most people find them comfortable even on long journeys personally I don’t think they have a leg to stand on and whilst comfort is subjective they sat in the seats and accepted the MoHo

No way should you just give the money back.

Best case maybe to offer a sale or return with you taking the normal commission, That way you do not loose out ( and should not). They save face but have the cost of the two months use being effectively a long term hire.
 
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