90 in 90 out

[jongood]

Interesting, if wildly optimistic, interpretation of the situation. Back to Peter Pan’s “Dreams do come true, if only we wish hard enough”. The evidence, so far, would appear to show otherwise.

Unneccessarily offensive but time will tell.

 

[EuroTrotters]

IMO there will soon be a lot of pressure from the economies that rely on tourism to revisit the visa situation. The problem is that there is nothing between a 3 month holiday and applying to live there, and when you re talking about a dozen countries that serious numbers of people actually want to visit, its not long enough. Ultimately the EU will lose out if they don't change, not only from the loss of tourist revenue but also from attracting the bright young things of the world some of whom have the ideas that will shape the future. The big winners economically here could be Us, Morocco Turkey, US etc.

I was in a bar in Spain this week. The owners were chatting to a few small groups of people who were regulars.

Eight on one table were saying they would not be in the following week for their usual meal and drinks. The bar owner asked when would they be back?. The group replied next year. Agh, have you stayed 90 days?. Yes, was the response..

Bar owner went on to say, unless more people arrived (Brits), they would probably close in the evenings from October.

 

[autocaravaner]

There are definitely some areas and some specific businesses that will be losers on this situation. Probably the people running bars in Marbella will have a slower winter and they will not be very happy and we will hear stories like the one that EuroTrotters is bringing.

But I'll guess that was happening in a restaurant that target Brits as their main client and it's probably located in a holiday area. Go to the centre of Sevilla or Malaga and ask a good tapas bar if they are suffering. I bet you they will not even be aware of the 90 day rule

When you look at the country data, it's very difficult to see how the 90 day rule that now applies to the UK (like any other non European country) will derail the Spanish economy or make the government try to desperately influence the European Union to change the policies that apply to British tourist.

In any case, my main point is about the derogatory tone used by some when referring to my country and how they fail to put in context how important the British tourism contribution is to the overall economy.

No, we are not your servants and we are not going to crash as a country if you decide to spend winter in Morocco or sell your apartment in Torremolinos. We will miss you but Spain will just do fine because the numbers tells you that this is not a systemic risk to our economy.

All said, I hope you still visit, live with us, enjoy our weather, make friendships with Spaniards and have an awesome time with your family and loved ones.

Regards

 

[Littlewheels]

And of course this thread probably wouldn’t have been posted if the rule was 180 in 365, same amount of days but massively different when planning a long trip or avoiding a UK winter.

 

[Jim]

In any case, my main point is about the derogatory tone used by some when referring to my country and how they fail to put in context how important the British tourism contribution is to the overall economy.

No, we are not your servants and we are not going to crash as a country if you decide to spend winter in Morocco or sell your apartment in Torremolinos.

You keep saying that. I've not seen anyone being particularly derogatory, on the contrary, people are moaning because they would like to stay in your country for longer.

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[autorouter]

big brother is watching.

We've got a priti big brother ourselves here in the UK.

 

[Jim]

the derogatory tone used by some when referring to my country

Meanwhile

The UK is generally unpleasant to be in if you are a foreigner.

I'd never stop in Spain fo 90 days in Summer, there is only so much sewer smell one nose can take

 

[olley]

The only reason I can see for the EU to increase to 180 days would be for a few select countries like the USA as part of a trade deal.

 

[Jim]

The only reason I can see for the EU to increase to 180 days would be for a few select countries like the USA as part of a trade deal.

The only thing that might happen is a homeowners visa that is 180/180 thing. That would make sense down the line, but I doubt we will ever see a Motorhome 180/180 anytime soon

 

[Phill D]

No matter how much noise we make on this the EU is unlikely to change a rule that applies to all 3rd countries just for us motorhome travellers.

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[jongood]

No matter how much noise we make on this the EU is unlikely to change a rule that applies to all 3rd countries just for us motorhome travellers.

If you compare the EU to other major tourist destinations, most of them such as US, Thailand, Australia tend to have either a choice of visas or a mechanism for extending. Not especially for Motorhomes but for all tourism the EU surely have to be realising that this would be a good thing to offer especially if they were able to charge for it.

autocaravaner I've not seen anyone being anything but complementary about Spain, a lot of the commentary is to enable us to stay longer - why would we bother if we didnt like it?

Spains governments have been encouraging tourism for years and do actually offer a larger choice of visa's than Schengen zone - golden visa being one of them. They wouldnt be doing this if they didnt want to attract people.

 

[olley]

The only thing that might happen is a homeowners visa that is 180/180 thing. That would make sense down the line, but I doubt we will ever see a Motorhome 180/180 anytime soon

The yanks already have a 180 day visa so they might ask for the same to demonstrate a close relationship, and with a pop of over 325 million that's a lot of wealthy tourists, and there's a lot to see in Europe.

 

[mitzimad]

I don't think so. The UK is generally unpleasant to be in if you are a foreigner. And the hostile environment policy has the most deterrent effect on the law-abiding - there are better places for bright young things to explore.

If the UK is so hostile why are there so many foreign nationals here?I hardly hear any English spoken in London streets

 

[Dutch 68]

If the UK is so hostile why are there so many foreign nationals here?I hardly hear any English spoken in London streets

There are as many reasons for that as there are foreigners, every immigrant will have his/her own story, me being Dutch I liked the landscape, had been coming here on holidays ( riding horses in Wales) so when I was ready for a change of scenery, I loaded my 3 horses, 2 dogs and all my belongings in a lorry and set of for Wales, lived there for 15 years, now living in beautiful Cheltenham and soon we might set off for early semi retirement somewhere in the south of France, besides the landscape I enjoy roast dinners ( made by my self nowadays ) and cheddar cheese, what’s not to like eh? If only we had more warm , dry and sunny days it could be paradise

 

[deleted79651]

The yanks already have a 180 day visa so they might ask for the same to demonstrate a close relationship, and with a pop of over 325 million that's a lot of wealthy tourists, and there's a lot to see in Europe.

Went to a Comedy Festival in Cape Town in 2007 and the comedian was looking for an Australian 'target' to be the butt of his jokes re Rugby World Cup. No takers, so he asked for an American, and a female was daft enough to volunteer; 'You're an 'Educator' are you, love? We have those in Britain, we call them Teachers ...' He was merciless, including asking, as an 'Educator', whether she had a Passport ,or whether she had never yet made it to the Coast ... She hadn't [because of the [nukiller' [nuclear] threat from foreign terrorists]

But his piece de resistance was to ask where she was from 'Ohio', she replied. 'Help me out here,' replied the comedian, 'That's towards the top corner, isn't it, in the 'Corn Belt', and where your nearest neighbour is about 5 miles away? The Educator was beginning to 'wise up' by mumbling single word responses, to minimise the verbal mauling she was getting. 'Yes,' she replied.

'Let me give you a piece of advice,' replied the comedian, 'If the terrorists DO mount a nuclear attack, all you have to worry about is how you'll survive, living up to your armpits in popcorn ...'

Steve

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[EuroTrotters]

There are definitely some areas and some specific businesses that will be losers on this situation. Probably the people running bars in Marbella will have a slower winter and they will not be very happy and we will hear stories like the one that EuroTrotters is bringing.

But I'll guess that was happening in a restaurant that target Brits as their main client and it's probably located in a holiday area. Go to the centre of Sevilla or Malaga and ask a good tapas bar if they are suffering. I bet you they will not even be aware of the 90 day rule

When you look at the country data, it's very difficult to see how the 90 day rule that now applies to the UK (like any other non European country) will derail the Spanish economy or make the government try to desperately influence the European Union to change the policies that apply to British tourist.

In any case, my main point is about the derogatory tone used by some when referring to my country and how they fail to put in context how important the British tourism contribution is to the overall economy.

No, we are not your servants and we are not going to crash as a country if you decide to spend winter in Morocco or sell your apartment in Torremolinos. We will miss you but Spain will just do fine because the numbers tells you that this is not a systemic risk to our economy.

All said, I hope you still visit, live with us, enjoy our weather, make friendships with Spaniards and have an awesome time with your family and loved ones.

Regards

The other thing I mentioned here was house prices.

many expected the market to slumpThat’s certainly not the case here in Javea.

Wether that’s because apartment owners are looking to switch to villas after the pandemic, who knows.

There seems to be a lot more Dutch people here buying. I asked a Dutch couple on a campsite about it a couple of months ago. She couldn’t say why, though did suggest it could be due to some new wealth tax. That and again, due to the pandemic. People who can afford it either moving to better weather or the option of a second home in the sun if locked down.

Who knows

 

[PhilandMena]

I think the vast majority of Brits motor homing in the E.U. rarely go for more than 3 months at a time and will not be too put out complying with the 90/180 rule.

 

[Lynne Roy]

I think the vast majority of Brits motor homing in the E.U. rarely go for more than 3 months at a time and will not be too put out complying with the 90/180 rule.

I think that is perhaps true, but I can honestly say it has totally ruined our lives. We spend 9/10 months in the EU travelling to different countries and returning to our Uk home twice a year for a month. We are now not able to do this. I would happily pay for an easy to obtain visa to stay longer in several countries. The only thing is perhaps we will visit non Schengen EU countries like Croatia, where we currently are, until they too join the Schengen in 2023/24 . Praying for a cheap longer stay visa, or we will have to move out of the UK altogether x

 

[deleted79651]

I think that is perhaps true, but I can honestly say it has totally ruined our lives. We spend 9/10 months in the EU travelling to different countries and returning to our Uk home twice a year for a month. We are now not able to do this. I would happily pay for an easy to obtain visa to stay longer in several countries. The only thing is perhaps we will visit non Schengen EU countries like Croatia, where we currently are, until they too join the Schengen in 2023/24 . Praying for a cheap longer stay visa, or we will have to move out of the UK altogether x

Linking this post to the 'Reaching Out' Jargon Thread, I'll run this up the flagpole and see who salutes it ...

Why not advertise on an Irish Swingers' site for another couple 'must have passport...', divorce hubby and marry the 2 Irish citizens so that you can travel in EU sans interruption, then split from you new spouses, joining up again only when you wish to travel. You'll also have 2 new friends as travelling companions ...

Whaddya think? Is it a goer?

Steve

 

[jessthedog]

so when I was ready for a change of scenery, I loaded my 3 horses, 2 dogs and all my belongings in a lorry and set of for Wales, lived there for 15 years,

Didnt do your research then! Wales isnt known for the sun. Its known thoughout the the world for the rain!!!!
The Welsh have webbed hands!

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[PhilandMena]

I think that is perhaps true, but I can honestly say it has totally ruined our lives. We spend 9/10 months in the EU travelling to different countries and returning to our Uk home twice a year for a month. We are now not able to do this. I would happily pay for an easy to obtain visa to stay longer in several countries. The only thing is perhaps we will visit non Schengen EU countries like Croatia, where we currently are, until they too join the Schengen in 2023/24 . Praying for a cheap longer stay visa, or we will have to move out of the UK altogether x

Yes ! I get that and there will be others like you. Croatia is fantastic but needs to be visited at the right time of the year and Morocco is just fabulous and great for a few months in winter. I think once the E.U. stops licking its wounds it will offer cheap visa's to extend holiday visits. It just makes so much economic sense for E.U. countries. Time will tell.

 

[PhilandMena]

Linking this post to the 'Reaching Out' Jargon Thread, I'll run this up the flagpole and see who salutes it ...

Why not advertise on an Irish Swingers' site for another couple 'must have passport...', divorce hubby and marry the 2 Irish citizens so that you can travel in EU sans interruption, then split from you new spouses, joining up again only when you wish to travel. You'll also have 2 new friends as travelling companions ...

Whaddya think? Is it a goer?

Steve

Time to change your medication I think.

 

[DBK]

I think the vast majority of Brits motor homing in the E.U. rarely go for more than 3 months at a time and will not be too put out complying with the 90/180 rule.

You're missing the catch. The 90/180 rule doesn't just catch out just those who want a single visit of over 90 days. We used to go for 9 or 10 weeks in the late spring and return for a similar period starting late August or early September. Now if we want to return in September we have to ensure we are back in the UK by the end of May so we are back for 90 days in order to reset the clock for the next trip. We used to stay into June but can't do that any more.

It isn't the end of the world, we will adapt as we will to all the other restrictions and additional costs. It's just irritating and why I will never be happy with my loss of freedom to travel.

 

[deleted79651]

Yes ! I get that and there will be others like you. Croatia is fantastic but needs to be visited at the right time of the year and Morocco is just fabulous and great for a few months in winter. I think once the E.U. stops licking its wounds it will offer cheap visa's to extend holiday visits. It just makes so much economic sense for E.U. countries. Time will tell.

I 'm sure the 6 months Visas are 'ready to go', but, not 'EU licking its wounds', more that the pandemic made the processing impossible in practical terms. There are several obstacles to the suitability of the Visa to m/homers, including criteria such as 'address where you will be staying' ['roaming' won't pass muster], proving you have enough capital/income and/or a job offer, adequate health insurance etc [these off the top of my head, there is a more detailed list].

For the Visa to be genuinely useful to [British] motorhomers, it probably needs to be redesigned from scratch. And that brings us back to the recurring question: 'Why bother for 1 country, for a small group [25k m/homes IIRC?]' when we can let the remaining EU citizens arrive without formality, cost and fuss, when we have some 448 million others from which to obtain the replacement customers and who already enjoy Freedom of Movement?'

Steve

 

[Dutch 68]

Didnt do your research then! Wales isnt known for the sun. Its known thoughout the the world for the rain!!!!
The Welsh have webbed hands!

Priorities change lol, had a fab time in Wales , if you like the outdoors then the Brecon Beacons national park is a good place to be!
being a few years older now, the sun becomes more of a priority

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[jessthedog]

Priorities change lol, had a fab time in Wales , if you like the outdoors then the Brecon Beacons national park is a good place to be!
being a few years older now, the sun becomes more of a priority

Brecon Beacons is lovely, unless you are yomping across it in the driving rain!

 

[gus-lopez]

I’ve liked this post and agree wholeheartedly with most of it but another angle is the investment in land and property which is a huge amount. No idea how much but it’s kept spanish builders and others in business for decades for sure. That’s currently the biggest risk to Spain as I’m not sure this is included in “tourism” figures as such but is massive in impact if they all decamp to Blighty eh?

For the last 10 years or so the Begians have been outbuying everyone around here. Followed by Russians, who tend to stick to Alicante & areas in either direction, rarely appearing around here unless seriously needing to hide & chinese who are everywhere

I bet you they will not even be aware of the 90 day rule

True ,very difficult to explain it around here.

and with a pop of over 325 million that's a lot of wealthy tourists, and there's a lot to see in Europe.

only 37% ,around 120 million actually have passports. & that's a 68% increase on 2007 when only 71,5 million had one. Main reason for the increase from 2007 was the introduction of the requirement for a passport to be able to travel to Canada, Mexico, Caribbean, Bermuda & into South America. So in reality it would still only be a % of the original amount who would seriously be travelling to europe.

 

[Jenka]

I don't think so. The UK is generally unpleasant to be in if you are a foreigner. And the hostile environment policy has the most deterrent effect on the law-abiding - there are better places for bright young things to explore.

Personally i find France hostile especially the cities .

 

[Coolcats]

We are now 9 months into this crazy rule for travelling around Europe. I understand about escaping to Croatia, Turkey and hopefully morrocco etc, but who is enforcing the rules, and really who is interested. I think it’s the E.U are enforcing it, but I can’t see the customs officer in Holland, Belgian, France or Spain looking through the passport, and counting the days, especially when when you have an assortment of stamps all on different pages.
We recently came by ferry from Hull to Rotterdam, the passport wasn’t ‘scanned in Rotterdam’ just a stamp, which can hardly be read.


What do you think ?

Europe is not made up of 3rd world countries, ANPR, Bank Transactions, mobile phones and passports-epassports can all be easily linked. It’s not the 1970’s where a rubber stamp in a passport was the only way of checking your visit.

if we do not play by the rules we chose to opt for then whatever measure the EU choose to apply be it a fine or ban will be handed out. I for one am not going to pretend it will all be ok I’m not feeling that lucky.

 

[tonyidle]

E.U. stops licking its wounds

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