90 in 180 France maybe concessions

[2657]

True. But how would anyone know how many days you had done in Schengen when there are no borders.

If, say, you have French residency you can visit Spain for 90 days in 180. But as there is no border how would they prove that you were illegal.

With difficulty and as that rule has been in force as long as Schengen has been in existence it is unlikely that anyone is likely to try and enforce it now.

 

[jumartoo]

With difficulty and as that rule has been in force as long as Schengen has been in existence it is unlikely that anyone is likely to try and enforce it now.

The thing is, the Schengen Rule, even though it has been in force for many years, never applied to EU citizens, so it wasn't necessary to be aware of it and definitely couldn't be applied to a UK citizen .

The 90 days rule that people confuse with Schengen, was individual country rules (not all countries introduced it, including the UK) for registering residency after 90 days. This was largely ignored unless someone committed a crime.

So, no, the Schengen rules have never been ignored and are unlikely to be ignored now.

 

[busby]

We intend to spend some winters in Spain or Portugal, so we will now have to limit the time to 90 days, we cannot fly as we have dogs and I'm not prepared to put them in the hold. If it doesn't change them we will cope, as I understand it the 90days is not a new thing, it just was not enforced so it may not change at all. Time will tell. Also insurance is problematic if away for over 90 days so We will probably not exceed it anyway.

It's not the 90 days that's my problem,,we normally do April may June and then Sept Oct Nov,, will have to tweak dates to comply. BUSBY..

 

[Offagain]

Thinking about it, I can't see how this would work. If the French gave someone a visa how would they stop you from going to Spain as there is no border.

Is residence different? If you are a resident I imagine you are entitled to unlimited Schengen travel and thus it's not a problem.

We have a boat in Greece and want to continue to spend several months a year there, so we got Greek residency permits in 2019 in anticipation of the 90/180 rule being applied from 1st Jan this year.
Until today we thought we would only be allowed unlimited time inside Greece and would need to use our 90/180 driving to and fro and if we went on other holidays within schengen. However my driver has read something this morning ( I can’t remember where and he isn‘t here right now to ask) suggesting that because we would be travelling to our country of residence, the days spent en route to Greece and then returning to U.K. won’t count against the 90/180.
Which would be nice!
We had been wondering how we would manage to prove where we had been as nobody stamps passports any more, without having to retain hard copies of a huge number of documents, receipts, emails and tickets.

 

[Bolti]

We have a boat in Greece and want to continue to spend several months a year there, so we got Greek residency permits in 2019 in anticipation of the 90/180 rule being applied from 1st Jan this year.
Until today we thought we would only be allowed unlimited time inside Greece and would need to use our 90/180 driving to and fro and if we went on other holidays within schengen. However my driver has read something this morning ( I can’t remember where and he isn‘t here right now to ask) suggesting that because we would be travelling to our country of residence, the days spent en route to Greece and then returning to U.K. won’t count against the 90/180.
Which would be nice!
We had been wondering how we would manage to prove where we had been as nobody stamps passports any more, without having to retain hard copies of a huge number of documents, receipts, emails and tickets.

If you have Greek residency then the 90/180 days is irrelevant to you. Whilst in EU no borders. And when in UK you are allowed to stay for 180 days.

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[Skez]

In the actual event , if you are not working, taking someone's job, I don't think they will give 2 f..... how long you stay there putting money into their economy.

If you're correct, then - Great!! If bi-lateral agreements between the UK and individual countries are agreed, then - That's great too!

Until then I eagerly await the reports from April onwards from Funsters who have overstayed. Maybe they will get away without sanction, maybe they won't.

All guinea pigs please step forward so that I can benefit from your experience!

 

[2657]

The thing is, the Schengen Rule, even though it has been in force for many years, never applied to EU citizens, so it wasn't necessary to be aware of it and definitely couldn't be applied to a UK citizen .

The 90 days rule that people confuse with Schengen, was individual country rules (not all countries introduced it, including the UK) for registering residency after 90 days. This was largely ignored unless someone committed a crime.

So, no, the Schengen rules have never been ignored and are unlikely to be ignored now.

In an attempt to clarify matters please tell me if this is correct.
The 90 day registration rule is not universal throughout every EU country and is largely ignored in any case.
The Schengen 90/180 day rule does not apply to EU citizens, as I am now no longer a citizen of an EU state but have residency in Portugal then the 90/180 day rule will apply to me except when I am in Portugal.
This will be virtually impossible to police as once I am in the Schengen area no one will know whether I am in Portugal or another Schengen state.
I say virtually impossible but obviously if the authorities were to try hard enough it could undoubtedly be done and as others have said it could be down to the individual to prove that they are legal.
It is not a scenario that is likely to concern me.

 

[Odd-no-more]

Is it based on nationality, or residence? I could, probably, get a French passport, and wifey could get an Irish one

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

From a Spanish perspective, ‘you’ typically have to prove - rather than ‘they’ have to prove that you have....

 

[jumartoo]

In an attempt to clarify matters please tell me if this is correct.
The 90 day registration rule is not universal throughout every EU country and is largely ignored in any case.
The Schengen 90/180 day rule does not apply to EU citizens, as I am now no longer a citizen of an EU state but have residency in Portugal then the 90/180 day rule will apply to me except when I am in Portugal.
This will be virtually impossible to police as once I am in the Schengen area no one will know whether I am in Portugal or another Schengen state.
I say virtually impossible but obviously if the authorities were to try hard enough it could undoubtedly be done and as others have said it could be down to the individual to prove that they are legal.
It is not a scenario that is likely to concern me.

That's more or less how I understand it. We're Spanish resident and, if we don't cross a manned border, i.e. to go to Norway, it would be hard to prove how long, or where we'd been within the EU (Schengen). If we were stopped and asked, the onus would be on us to prove where we'd been and for how long.

The problem is for Brits leaving the UK and then re entering. Being an island, it will always have a manned border.

Is it based on nationality, or residence? I could, probably, get a French passport, and wifey could get an Irish one

It's based on your passport. That's why the Irish passport holders are laughing . Both Irish and French passports will give you the freedom of movement.

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[Charente16]

Let me just add my 'two penny worth' and say I would suggest that you don't want to 'upset' Border Control officials' in what ever country you happen to be passing through.

Many years ago, during my working life, I got 'Deported' from the Cameroon due to a technicality, I had entered by car from Nigeria where I was based at the time, but as a result of an accident, more like a serious crash. I had to leave by 'plane'. You didn't arrive by plane, so you cann't leave by plane. Logical to an extent, but not very 'practique'.

To cut along story short, finally got back to home with a 'Deported Stamp' in my British Passport. Even after many renewed/new passports, that 'Deportation' stamp still exists somewhere to cause me problems to this day. Nothing serious but enough to cause me a sense of 'here we go again' for the umpteenth time.

If the Cameroon can cause such disruption, I'd hate to think what a Schengen country could do to your future travelling life in Europe.

Robert

 

[franknjan]

We had been wondering how we would manage to prove where we had been as nobody stamps passports any more, without having to retain hard copies of a huge number of documents, receipts, emails and tickets.

As far as I'm aware your passport is scanned by customs on departure from the UK and also as you enter mainland Europe. That record is available to all customs computers, Europe wide (maybe world wide)
Your passport will be scanned on your leaving the EU and return home.
It will automatically register over stay and any penalties willbe applied.
I think.

 

[gpat]

If you have Greek residency then the 90/180 days is irrelevant to you. Whilst in EU no borders. And when in UK you are allowed to stay for 180 days.

I may be wrong, but from what I read this wasn't true. Like I say I stand corrected but I gleaned that only EU citizens could spend unlimited time in the schengen area. Not residents.

 

[Charente16]

EU citizens could spend unlimited time in the schengen area.

I think you will find the 90 Day Rule applies to EU citizens as well, just like it did to the UK when we were members just not enforced. All comes down to Residence Status and Tax compliance. As an EU Citizen you pay your tax, if a foreigner were do you pay your tax?

I have the best of both worlds and get to pay tax to both an EU country and the UK!

Robert

 

[Bolti]

I may be wrong, but from what I read this wasn't true. Like I say I stand corrected but I gleaned that only EU citizens could spend unlimited time in the schengen area. Not residents.

My point being as there are no boarders, no one is checking.

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[suavecarve]

I think it's a given that with a bit of water under the bridge, the future will see quite a few areas like this where we will negotiate and make special arrangements with our friends and neighbours across the pond. London is France's 6th largest city after all. So something like that say for homeowners, which might work to everyone's benefit, will I'm sure be looked at over time.

Dont know whether you put the 6th biggest city up here for a bite or not but its a bit of a myth.

Bojo used all our "amis" who lived within striking distance of London for that figure which is off the mark anyway and the BBC to trumpet the claims. I wonder whether there was a reason for him saying this when he was Mayor of London !

I prefer the census figures than Bojos ..... The 2011 UK Census recorded 137,862 French-born people living in the UK. Almost half of these were resident in the capital, London. Many more British people have French ancestry. *The ONS stated 86,000 in 2011

And he might have been including his dad (and the rest of the members of his family) who is currently trying to get french citizenship through his mother being born in France.

Makes a good headline though.

 

[Crazylegs]

A restaurant owner in Portugal told us that hotels and hospitality businesses are unhappy about the 90 day rule that applies to tourists from the UK. They are lobbying their government to allow extended visits, time will tell.

 

[Rob Hammond]

Dont know whether you put the 6th biggest city up here for a bite or not but its a bit of a myth.

Bojo used all our "amis" who lived within striking distance of London for that figure which is off the mark anyway and the BBC to trumpet the claims. I wonder whether there was a reason for him saying this when he was Mayor of London !

I prefer the census figures than Bojos ..... The 2011 UK Census recorded 137,862 French-born people living in the UK. Almost half of these were resident in the capital, London. Many more British people have French ancestry. *The ONS stated 86,000 in 2011

And he might have been including his dad (and the rest of the members of his family) who is currently trying to get french citizenship through his mother being born in France.

Makes a good headline though.

So is that a 9 year old census ?thanks

 

[Rob Hammond]

A restaurant owner in Portugal told us that hotels and hospitality businesses are unhappy about the 90 day rule that applies to tourists from the UK. They are lobbying their government to allow extended visits, time will tell.

Money talks

 

[gpat]

My point being as there are no boarders, no one is checking.

Yeah. I said that in my earlier post. However I was challenged over the legality so was just saying.
I'm with you

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[Skez]

A restaurant owner in Portugal told us that hotels and hospitality businesses are unhappy about the 90 day rule that applies to tourists from the UK. They are lobbying their government to allow extended visits, time will tell.

Money talks

Even if individual countries allow us 180 days in 360, which may well suit those who wish to overwinter in the sun, we are still 'less free' than we were last week!

 

[gpat]

True. But how would anyone know how many days you had done in Schengen when there are no borders.

If, say, you have French residency you can visit Spain for 90 days in 180. But as there is no border how would they prove that you were illegal.

 

[Rob Hammond]

Even if individual countries allow us 180 days in 360, which may well suit those who wish to overwinter in the sun, we are still 'less free' than we were last week!

I feel as free today as I did last week

 

[Skez]

I feel as free today as I did last week

I'm aware of that - but I don't!! Horses for courses

 

[Jim]

Dont know whether you put the 6th biggest city up here for a bite or not but its a bit of a myth.

Sorry about that you're probably right. I've read it so many times and assumed it to be true. Even Macron claimed it a couple of years ago, maybe he was trying to get a bite too .

Emmanuel Macron: London is the sixth biggest French city

France's presidential frontrunner Emmanuel Macron declared London to be the sixth biggest French city as he sought to woo hundreds of thousands of his fellow citizens this side of the Channel.

www.standard.co.uk

France's sixth biggest city* goes to the polls (*that's London, by the

The English capital has more Gallic residents than Calais and Lille combined. And next month expats in the stronghold of South Kensington will have a big say in who is returned as the first French overseas MP

www.independent.co.uk

London, France's sixth biggest city

The UK capital is home to up to 400,000 French citizens. What is attracting a new generation of young French professionals to the city?

www.bbc.co.uk

London: The sixth-biggest French city

London is already thought to be the sixth-biggest French city in the world, with more French citizens living here than in Bordeaux or Nantes – a fact that should be a sober warning to those who would tax us more and fight moves to cut bureaucracy.

realbusiness.co.uk

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[Phill D]

Even if individual countries allow us 180 days in 360, which may well suit those who wish to overwinter in the sun, we are still 'less free' than we were last week!

I guess that depends on how as an individual we each define free.

 

[Skez]

I guess that depends on how as an individual we each define free.

You're absolutely correct. I should have said 'I feel less free than I did last week.'

 

[Minxy]

In the words of Mr Humphreys .... "I'm free!"

 

[Coolcats]

In the actual event , if you are not working, taking someone's job, I don't think they will give 2 f..... how long you stay there putting money into their economy.

‘They’ are not poor relations but I guess just like the UK if you have money you can buy almost anything.

 

[gpat]

I think you will find the 90 Day Rule applies to EU citizens as well, just like it did to the UK when we were members just not enforced. All comes down to Residence Status and Tax compliance. As an EU Citizen you pay your tax, if a foreigner were do you pay your tax?

I have the best of both worlds and get to pay tax to both an EU country and the UK!

Robert

That's interesting and makes sense. What difference has Brexit made?

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