90 days abroad

[dunnah01]

Just a thought, now every tick‘s a tock with the day count on Schengen, I bet the evening crossing out and the morning crossing back are nearly empty, I mean who would waste a day getting stamped at 10pm at night and 8am coming back, it’d be a waste of two days surely

I doubt most holidaymakers are worried about the 90/180 rule so ferries won't notice the odd 90+ day eurotourer

 

[62272]

I doubt most holidaymakers are worried about the 90/180 rule so ferries won't notice the odd 90+ day eurotourer

I’d be very surprised if the continental border force computer logging systems linked to your passport scans are not linked up and do all the sums (day-counts) automatically. Be interested to see if this is the case. I suspect the majority of people on here are too conscientious or cynical to leave it to chance and find out! But…. If anyone one is stupid enough adventurous enough to try and usurp the system then please let us know how you get on

 

[Glas Robin]

I’d be very surprised if the continental border force computer logging systems linked to your passport scans are not linked up and do all the sums (day-counts) automatically. Be interested to see if this is the case. I suspect the majority of people on here are too conscientious or cynical to leave it to chance and find out! But…. If anyone one is stupid enough adventurous enough to try and usurp the system then please let us know how you get on

Yes - between ETIAS (from 2022) and SIS II, they've pretty much got a secure system in place to track entry/exit to the whole of Schengen.

 

[Molly A]

OK,not so relevant to the 90 days, but for the second time we have followed the Italian entrance regs and took a rapid antigen test in Switzerland before entering Italy. Last year in December we had to take a PCR test in Greece before entering Italy. In both cases we were waived through and neither passport or certs/ tests were examined. So that is 240 euros on two lots of texts that the Italian government have wasted for me!!! Still, I'm here in the sunshine and not in crowded, grey and dreary Britain, so I consider it a reasonable price to pay...

 

[gus-lopez]

Yes - between ETIAS (from 2022) and SIS II, they've pretty much got a secure system in place to track entry/exit to the whole of Schengen.

Apart from the people who have multiple passports & use them all when travelling. On a spanish forum I use I was quite surprised at how many actually have 3? Another forum I use a UK bloke & his wife applied for & were granted spanish nationality. He had to choose another 'spanish' name. So now has 2 legal passports in different names?
I love it. In through the out door.

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[triky]

The R.Y.A is pressing for 'Visitors Visa's' for boaters ,yachties etc for tourism sailing in the Shengen area's.
Any tourists from there can use the U.K for six month,s, so an reciprocal arrangement is being pushed for !!

 

[Littlewheels]

Schengen dates in brackets:

June 2nd to 30th inclusive = (29) days used
July 1st to 20th inclusive = (20) days used
Total Schengen so far (49) days.

Allowance of (90) days, (90) - (49) = (41) days remaining.

If you re-entered Schengen on 8th Sept, then (23) days in September ( 8th to 30th inclusive) leaving you (18) days in October. You will need to be out of Schengen no later than midnight on 18th October.

Your initial allowance days do not drop off until day 180 from 2nd June. Therefore 1st June + 180 days = Nov 28th

[ June = 29 + July = 31 + Aug = 31 + Sep = 30 + Oct =31 + Nov = 30 ] = 182 days

Errors or Omissions Excepted!!

It’s simple +/- arithmetic in old money l cannot for the life of me understand why people cannot work it out, if you shop and spend 50p and offer £1/100p in payment you are given 50p change, it’s no different other than you are deducting from 180……come on people.

 

[62272]

Apart from the people who have multiple passports & use them all when travelling. On a spanish forum I use I was quite surprised at how many actually have 3? Another forum I use a UK bloke & his wife applied for & were granted spanish nationality. He had to choose another 'spanish' name. So now has 2 legal passports in different names?
I love it. In through the out door.

Surely the people using their other nationality passport are not by-passing the Schengen rules, just taking advantage of their dual/multiple nationalities, one of which may be part of the the EU family. Of course it could confuse the border control database but I doubt they actively seek those who ‘may’ appear to overstay by virtue of no exit information. They would just deal with apparent breaches on those presenting themselves at a border control point.

It would be assumed that if you are a national of any particular country then you should (legally) enter that country on the passport held for that country and not another nationality that you may hold. Conversely when you leave that country for another nation that you are a subject of, you should use the passport for the country you are entering. I would not have thought the multiple nationalities are linked up on the border systems, particularly if they are in different names as the case Gus highlights.

 

[62272]

It’s simple +/- arithmetic in old money l cannot for the life of me understand why people cannot work it out, if you shop and spend 50p and offer £1/100p in payment you are given 50p change, it’s no different other than you are deducting from 180……come on people.

You could also do it with bananas or apples !! . Joking aside, if mathematics isn't your strong point then it can take a while to get your head around rules and linking simplicity to a written statement. Worked through examples make it easier.

 

[nicholsong]

Apart from the people who have multiple passports & use them all when travelling. On a spanish forum I use I was quite surprised at how many actually have 3? Another forum I use a UK bloke & his wife applied for & were granted spanish nationality. He had to choose another 'spanish' name. So now has 2 legal passports in different names?
I love it. In through the out door.

One can travel out of Schengen, e.g. to UK, on a passport and back in on a Resident's Card or vice versa, although one would have to enter UK using the passport. So one could present either at two different booths at the French port. Gets confusing doesn't it?

If I, as a Polish Resident, come back into Schengen at Dunkirk I am supposed to only stay for 90 days except in Poland, but there is no way anyone will know when I get back to Poland or whether I returneed to Poland immediately and then visited France or anywhere later beyond the 90 days when I entered France.

Geoff

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[franknjan]

Going back to earlier threads with regard to Spanish campsites suffering through lack of British campers.
I can tell you, with first hand experience, they're not missing the brits at all. We've been on three campsites in Spain, they were all full. Predominately Dutch and Belgians. We are currently on camping Enmar in pineda de mar. The owners are not really aware of 90 day rule and certainly not bothered.
There are only 5 British units onsite currently.

 

[busby]

Going back to earlier threads with regard to Spanish campsites suffering through lack of British campers.
I can tell you, with first hand experience, they're not missing the brits at all. We've been on three campsites in Spain, they were all full. Predominately Dutch and Belgians. We are currently on camping Enmar in pineda de mar. The owners are not really aware of 90 day rule and certainly not bothered.
There are only 5 British units onsite currently.

Bit different last Sept Oct and when I was in Spain this June then.Only vans on the sites were Spanish and not many of them. Bonterra Park in Benicasim was offering the Spanish reduced rates because usually there are 250 brit vans on the site.. British don't tend to visit Spain in great numbers in Aug anyway,, they have more sense.

BUSBY.

 

[Emmit]

Offagain said

'Someone in the Cruising Association has been fined €600 for overstaying 4 days, apparently. The choices were pay the fine or not return for 4 yrs.'

I am surprised they did not say they were at sea for 4 days outside Schengen territorial waters.

I used to do similar when Greece used to tax a boat if it stayed in Greece more than a year. You could leave and come back the next day. I plotted a route on a chart and just went to a bay. They never questioned it, because I think they knew everyone was 'at it' and they knew they could not prove otherwise. Anyway the tax would not have gone to the Port Police Christmas Party so why should they cars.?

I hear they have tightened up on paperwork and the charge per month for being in Greek waters, but not onshore.

Geoff

Don't shoot the messenger on this one as I haven't had a chance to confirm what I am about to state.

I have been told that if one was on board a cruise ship and that ship called into a Shengen port then REGARDLESS of the ongoing days, the clock continues to count up the days until the ship visits a non Shengen port.
IE, Visit Vigo on Day 2 of a two week cruise and then call in at Gib 10days later, you've clocked up 8 days of your 90 days, even if, say for instance you've only called in at 4 Shengen ports in the meantime.
Apparently the clock continues until it is stopped by a call at a non Shengen port.

It therefore follows that in the example given by Geoff (above) the Greek Authorities are dealing with yachts in this manner if they do not call in at a non Shengen port to stop the clock.

 

[Emmit]

Don't shoot the messenger on this one as I haven't had a chance to confirm what I am about to state.

I have been told that if one was on board a cruise ship and that ship called into a Shengen port then REGARDLESS of the ongoing days, the clock continues to count up the days until the ship visits a non Shengen port.
IE, Visit Vigo on Day 2 of a two week cruise and then call in at Gib 10days later, you've clocked up 8 days of your 90 days, even if, say for instance you've only called in at 4 Shengen ports in the meantime.
Apparently the clock continues until it is stopped by a call at a non Shengen port.

It therefore follows that in the example given by Geoff (above) the Greek Authorities are dealing with yachts in this manner if they do not call in at a non Shengen port to stop the clock.

Yikes!!!

Having just reread my post (above) I've just realised that I'm caught up in this mess.
No dates obviously but me and Mrs Emmit have a cruise booked.
Our cruise is crossing 'the pond' with a stop in Madeira on the way out and the Azores on the way back.
Using my own above comments, we would 'lose' 10 days of our 90 days for a theoretical stay of about 18hrs in the two islands, combined.
The research starts!

 

[deleted79651]

Going back to earlier threads with regard to Spanish campsites suffering through lack of British campers.
I can tell you, with first hand experience, they're not missing the brits at all. We've been on three campsites in Spain, they were all full. Predominately Dutch and Belgians. We are currently on camping Enmar in pineda de mar. The owners are not really aware of 90 day rule and certainly not bothered.
There are only 5 British units onsite currently.

Why would the campssite owners be bothered about the 90/180 Rule [or the effective waiver for non EU citizens travelling with EU Passport holding spouses?]. The Arrivals/Departures Rules are applied at the external Borders by the Border Officials, so the campsite owner is entitled to assume that Passports etc have been examined and Campers only need to be booked in in accordance with the hot country's national and regional laws/by laws etc.

Steve

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[deleted79651]

Don't shoot the messenger on this one as I haven't had a chance to confirm what I am about to state.

I have been told that if one was on board a cruise ship and that ship called into a Shengen port then REGARDLESS of the ongoing days, the clock continues to count up the days until the ship visits a non Shengen port.
IE, Visit Vigo on Day 2 of a two week cruise and then call in at Gib 10days later, you've clocked up 8 days of your 90 days, even if, say for instance you've only called in at 4 Shengen ports in the meantime.
Apparently the clock continues until it is stopped by a call at a non Shengen port.

It therefore follows that in the example given by Geoff (above) the Greek Authorities are dealing with yachts in this manner if they do not call in at a non Shengen port to stop the clock.

I don't think your wording is entirely accurate [but I acknowledge that it is not a verbatim quote], so my comment is an attempt to clarify the position. I was looking for some other detail in the Stay Regs re EU databases and came across the 'Stay Calculation Guidance for Border Officials on Page 29 et seq]

QUOTE START: '
For the 90 days within a 180-days period, the day of entry shall be calculated as the first
day of stay in the area without internal border controls and the day of exit shall be
calculated as the last day of stay in this area.' QuOTE END

So the days stayed count until you LEAVE Schengen rather than when you arrive at your next Non Schengen port. Given that cruises will often take overnight to arrive at the next port, it could make a difference of 1 day or, perhaps 2 days [there are examples elsewhere aimed at Cross Channel Ferry passengers warning that a Ferry arriving at 23:55 and departing at 00:05 on the Return sailing will involve 2 days stay from your 90 days ...

Steve

 

[Emmit]

I don't think your wording is entirely accurate [but I acknowledge that it is not a verbatim quote], so my comment is an attempt to clarify the position. I was looking for some other detail in the Stay Regs re EU databases and came across the 'Stay Calculation Guidance for Border Officials on Page 29 et seq]

QUOTE START: '
For the 90 days within a 180-days period, the day of entry shall be calculated as the first
day of stay in the area without internal border controls and the day of exit shall be
calculated as the last day of stay in this area.' QuOTE END

So the days stayed count until you LEAVE Schengen rather than when you arrive at your next Non Schengen port. Given that cruises will often take overnight to arrive at the next port, it could make a difference of 1 day or, perhaps 2 days [there are examples elsewhere aimed at Cross Channel Ferry passengers warning that a Ferry arriving at 23:55 and departing at 00:05 on the Return sailing will involve 2 days stay from your 90 days ...

Steve

I can only hope.
Those folks in Brussels/Strasbourg sometime have a funny way of understanding what the english language means.
We shall see.
Unfortunately, it is only After you've landed in the doo doo that one would find out.
I just might ask the guys in the Azores how many days their computer shows about my EU exploits.

 

[nicholsong]

I keep reading posts on here and other threads about the 90/180 day rule which refer to the EU.

The rule applies to Schengen countries and some EU countries are not signed up to the Schengen Treaty. Similarly there are countries which are Schengen, e.g. Norway and Switzerland but not EU.

Can we be a bit more precise please? Because it does matter for those trying to go away for more than 90 days.

Geoff

 

[Emmit]

I keep reading posts on here and other threads about the 90/180 day rule which refer to the EU.

The rule applies to Schengen countries and some EU countries are not signed up to the Schengen Treaty. Similarly there are countries which are Schengen, e.g. Norway and Switzerland but not EU.

Can we be a bit more precise please? Because it does matter for those trying to go away for more than 90 days.

Geoff

C'mon Geoff. The vast majority of EU countries visited by motorhomers are Shengen. Certainly by volume.
How about I muddy the waters further.
On my previously mentioned cruise I'm going to France. However, this 'France' isn't a part of Shengen.
Eh? What? How so?
I'm going to two islands in the Caribbean that are, in themselves full Departments of their mother country, (the French aren't daft. The EU provides financial assistance where the French government can get away with it because they are, in reality as French as Brittany and Dordogne.)
But they don't count towards the 90 days.

 

[ChrisL]

C'mon Geoff. The vast majority of EU countries visited by motorhomers are Shengen. Certainly by volume.
How about I muddy the waters further.
On my previously mentioned cruise I'm going to France. However, this 'France' isn't a part of Shengen.
Eh? What? How so?
I'm going to two islands in the Caribbean that are, in themselves full Departments of their mother country, (the French aren't daft. The EU provides financial assistance where the French government can get away with it because they are, in reality as French as Brittany and Dordogne.)
But they don't count towards the 90 days.

So how much is the ferry costing

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[Emmit]

About £75 a nt. Full board!!!
Damn sight cheaper than BF.

 

[gus-lopez]

But they don't count towards the 90 days.

They should do when they count towards raising the French winter temperatures to stop expats being entitled to it in Brittany & Normandy & eveywhere else in france.

 

[DBK]

I keep reading posts on here and other threads about the 90/180 day rule which refer to the EU.

The rule applies to Schengen countries and some EU countries are not signed up to the Schengen Treaty. Similarly there are countries which are Schengen, e.g. Norway and Switzerland but not EU.

Can we be a bit more precise please? Because it does matter for those trying to go away for more than 90 days.

Geoff

I would think this map says it all. Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Cyprus are EU countries not in Schengen. Everywhere else on the map coloured blue is covered by the 90/180 rule.

 

[Millcourt]

This might be helpful to avoid any further confusion!!!

 

[Littlewheels]

What about the little white bit that is Andorra.

O qo

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[nicholsong]

I would think this map says it all. Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia and Cyprus are EU countries not in Schengen. Everywhere else on the map coloured blue is covered by the 90/180 rule.

View attachment 533573

Ireland is also not Schengen but is EU

Norway, Icceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein are Schengen but not EU.

So there are quite a few countries where the terms EU and Schengen do not coincide.

Geoff

 

[gus-lopez]

What about the little white bit that is Andorra.

O qoView attachment 533740

Encircled so has to comply or air is the only way in/out

 

[Blue Knight]

This might be helpful to avoid any further confusion!!!


View attachment 533669

I'll put my serious cap on for a second:

It's a big shame that some shit-head has chosen to write 'Fukwits' next to our Union Flag.

If it wasn't for that flag then it's most likely that Europe wouldnt exist today in its current guise and everyone would be speaking German.

Serious cap off.

 

[15edward]

You’re dismissing the USSRs contribution which can be argued to be greater than UKs
it wouldn’t be German we’d be speaking

 

[Millcourt]

I'll put my serious cap on for a second:

It's a big shame that some shit-head has chosen to write 'Fukwits' next to our Union Flag.

If it wasn't for that flag then it's most likely that Europe wouldnt exist today in its current guise and everyone would be speaking German.

Serious cap off.

Absolutely agree. I had not noticed this when I posted it. I just thought that the layout and all of the over-lapping arrangements, whilst somewhat amusing, demonstrated how complicated it has become to understand who is part of what!

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