90 days abroad

[gus-lopez]

although you do have to question the morals as it is in effect selling passports.

No you do not get a passport,only residencia

The passport once purchased means that anybody with enough money has freedom to move in the whole Schengen area, can you seriously not see potential problems with that?

No, with residencia you basically have 90 in 180 same as others.

I completely agree. But that just illustrates what a nonsense the system has become. I use a German passport to enter the EU to retain my freedom of movement. I use a UK passport to re-enter the UK. And a South African passport to enter South Africa without a limit on my stay.

I know of a woman here with a UK passport( birth) Polish passport( marriage) & an Irish passport( parents) .she uses all & any to enter with & always exits on a different one. She is also known to only carry 2 leaving the third ,usually in the UK or Poland, & swops one of the 2 she carries with it.

Just a quick sidetrack Question. Does the 90/180 rule apply the other way round? A Spanish resident planning a Motorhome trip to the UK for instance.

regards
mike

No.
This is because the Uk failed to ask Eu citizens to register at the outset & allowed 180 days to make it easier for them.

 

[The Wino]

EU citizens get 180 days because thats what we have decided now we have to power to decide our own rules.

 

[Midnightflyer]

You can spend up to 90 days in Europe and you cannot return for 90days, that's what the Spanish Immigration Service told me recently at Santander.

 

[deleted79651]

You can spend up to 90 days in Europe and you cannot return for 90days, that's what the Spanish Immigration Service told me recently at Santander.

I don't think that is true, much too simplistic, and assumes that everyone takes, say, a 90 days stay in France [May to July for ease of illustration]; then 3 months later, around beginning of November, clear off to Spain for Winter Sun for another 90 days.

The Regs say 90 days in any 180 days, i.e. a rolling calculation. Assume our holidaymaker returns from France on Day 90 [31st July] and after 10 days decides that he wants another break, so arranges a 14 days package holiday. He has 10 days in his rolling period, and, in theory, cannot take the holiday. BUT, by his departure date, he will have another 14 days, so he will not have overstayed, because 24 days of his original 90 days will have 'expired'. Will the Border Guards permit the holidaymaker to land for his package holiday? Or must you have the proposed stay days clear at the time of departure? I fear that it will be the latter.

Just to complicate matters, there have been several posts [guilty!] re Irish Passport spouses travelling with UK Passport holding spouses, and the 90/180 Rule not applying while the couple travel together, with the UK passort holder allowed his/her own 90 days if the Irish Passport holder goes home. For ScHengen Stay Calculator use, if you enter this joint travel period, the system will report an overstay [haven't checked for about 3 months so may have been changed ...]. How will the Border Guard record/monitor the joint travel and the UK Passport holder then taking a period of sole travel on the same trip?

The above issues were going to be finalised during the Transitional Period, but COVID got in the way, and I don't know if the deliberations have been completed. I hope I've just missed the decisions publication and that someone can answer the questions I've raised.

Steve

 

[uzsnowdrop]

I don't think that is true, much too simplistic, and assumes that everyone takes, say, a 90 days stay in France [May to July for ease of illustration]; then 3 months later, around beginning of November, clear off to Spain for Winter Sun for another 90 days.

The Regs say 90 days in any 180 days, i.e. a rolling calculation. Assume our holidaymaker returns from France on Day 90 [31st July] and after 10 days decides that he wants another break, so arranges a 14 days package holiday. He has 10 days in his rolling period, and, in theory, cannot take the holiday. BUT, by his departure date, he will have another 14 days, so he will not have overstayed, because 24 days of his original 90 days will have 'expired'. Will the Border Guards permit the holidaymaker to land for his package holiday? Or must you have the proposed stay days clear at the time of departure? I fear that it will be the latter.

Just to complicate matters, there have been several posts [guilty!] re Irish Passport spouses travelling with UK Passport holding spouses, and the 90/180 Rule not applying while the couple travel together, with the UK passort holder allowed his/her own 90 days if the Irish Passport holder goes home. For ScHengen Stay Calculator use, if you enter this joint travel period, the system will report an overstay [haven't checked for about 3 months so may have been changed ...]. How will the Border Guard record/monitor the joint travel and the UK Passport holder then taking a period of sole travel on the same trip?

The above issues were going to be finalised during the Transitional Period, but COVID got in the way, and I don't know if the deliberations have been completed. I hope I've just missed the decisions publication and that someone can answer the questions I've raised.

Steve

Aaaaaaaaaaaah.

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[deleted79651]

Aaaaaaaaaaaah.

Sorry! Your reply is an accurate picture of my mental state ...

Steve

 

[jumartoo]

EU citizens get 180 days because thats what we have decided now we have to power to decide our own rules.

And always could, in fact did! The rules haven't changed .

 

[62272]

Do feel free to be the first couple of Funsters to discover the sanctions! I have no intention of risking deportation and/or a ban from re-entering for X years, or inviting further scrutiny post ban, because the databases flag me up as an overstayer.

Steve

I'd be very interested too, can the two funsters overstay and let us know what happens

 

[62272]

And always could, in fact did! The rules haven't changed .

they have for the Brits

 

[The Wino]

The Regs say 90 days in any 180 days, i.e. a rolling calculation. Assume our holidaymaker returns from France on Day 90 [31st July] and after 10 days decides that he wants another break, so arranges a 14 days package holiday. He has 10 days in his rolling period, and, in theory, cannot take the holiday. BUT, by his departure date, he will have another 14 days, so he will not have overstayed, because 24 days of his original 90 days will have 'expired'. Will the Border Guards permit the holidaymaker to land for his package holiday? Or must you have the proposed stay days clear at the time of departure? I fear that it will be the latte

I don't think this is right. If you take 90 days away you have no more allowance left until another 90 days have passed in the UK as its only after 180 days that time previously spent in Schengen start to drop out of your rolling 180days and you've already used your full allowance.
24 of the original 90 days won't have expired until 114 days after returning from the original trip although you could go back after 90 days as you will be adding one day for each one that drops out until you reach another 90 days away

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[The Wino]

I'd be very interested too, can the two funsters overstay and let us know what happens

I think it would need more than 2 lucky ones to persuade me. It depends on your circumstances as we have relatives to visit in France I wouldn't risk possibly being banned from entry due to overstaying even if it was a temporary ban.

 

[2657]

You can spend up to 90 days in Europe and you cannot return for 90days, that's what the Spanish Immigration Service told me recently at Santander.

My recent experience of Spanish immigration who stamped my passport despite having been shown a Portuguese residency document prior to handing over my passport would leave me to believe that they do not know their a**e from their elbow!

 

[jumartoo]

they have for the Brits

But the question was for EU going to Britain. The rules were made (a long time ago) by the UK and ... still stand.

The UK have now moved themselves into a different category when travelling into the EU.

 

[gus-lopez]

The Regs say 90 days in any 180 days, i.e. a rolling calculation. Assume our holidaymaker returns from France on Day 90 [31st July] and after 10 days decides that he wants another break, so arranges a 14 days package holiday. He has 10 days in his rolling period, and, in theory, cannot take the holiday. BUT, by his departure date, he will have another 14 days, so he will not have overstayed, because 24 days of his original 90 days will have 'expired'. Will the Border Guards permit the holidaymaker to land for his package holiday? Or must you have the proposed stay days clear at the time of departure? I fear that it will be the latter.

That is not correct. You count back 180 days. Therefore when he starts his first day of package that will be day 101 count backwards 180 & he has been in for over 90 days. Until he has been OUT for 90 days the days cannot start to drop off.

ust to complicate matters, there have been several posts [guilty!] re Irish Passport spouses travelling with UK Passport holding spouses, and the 90/180 Rule not applying while the couple travel together, with the UK passort holder allowed his/her own 90 days if the Irish Passport holder goes home. For ScHengen Stay Calculator use, if you enter this joint travel period, the system will report an overstay [haven't checked for about 3 months so may have been changed ...]. How will the Border Guard record/monitor the joint travel and the UK Passport holder then taking a period of sole travel on the same trip?

Yes this is a disaster in waiting .I did write a piece last night but accidentally deleted it before posting. Basically a non-eu spouse could actually stay in the Eu forever without exceeding the 90 in 180 with there EU spouse coming & going,if they do it correctly. Only trouble is you would have to be in possession of all flight tickets,ferry tickets etc;etc; of the EU spouse & have a running spread sheet at all times.+ the ability to be able to explain this, on the side of the road & in multiple languages.

 

[gus-lopez]

they have for the Brits

Slightly ,yes .An eu citizen, of which the UK was one, was only ever allowed 90 consecutive days in one state before becoming a 'resident' . You could leave after 89 days ,return after 1 day & the clock started again. Or you could go in to another state for 90 consecutive days. Now you can't because the UK left the eu.
The EU citizen entering the UK had 180 days consecutive , then leave for a day & start another 180 or go to another EU state for up to 90 consecutive days. They retain that right as they haven't left the Eu & the uK had to maintain the status quo under the withdrawal act, or agree to modify it. They didn't.
Now , as a UK citizen you are only allowed 90 days total in ALL or Any EU states.Because they left the Eu.

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[deleted79651]

That is not correct. You count back 180 days. Therefore when he starts his first day of package that will be day 101 count backwards 180 & he has been in for over 90 days. Until he has been OUT for 90 days the days cannot start to drop off.

Yes this is a disaster in waiting .I did write a piece last night but accidentally deleted it before posting. Basically a non-eu spouse could actually stay in the Eu forever without exceeding the 90 in 180 with there EU spouse coming & going,if they do it correctly. Only trouble is you would have to be in possession of all flight tickets,ferry tickets etc;etc; of the EU spouse & have a running spread sheet at all times.+ the ability to be able to explain this, on the side of the road & in multiple languages.

So, quite a straightforward process then? Bearing in mind that the majority of Funsters who have contributed to this topic across multiple threads and posts querying the process have English as their first language and have reached many different conclusions, and bearing in mind that English will [or has already] cease to be an official EU language, who is going to volunteer to argue the case that they have complied with the Regs against a tired, bored Gendarme, Carabineri or Border Guard equivalent? 'Disaster in waiting' may be a masterful understatement!

Who's bringing the popcorn?

Steve

 

[Al n Val]

I may be giving it a go, we are seriously thinking of going for 8 weeks before christmas and then going back again just after new year and doing 90 days.

If questioned, which I doubt, i’ll just plead daft and say something like

“ I though it started again from Jan 1st”

He who dares wins

 

[triky]

Sanctions Bans ,deportation ,scrutiny !!!! ???? On what is your supposition based ?? Perhaps maybe other travellers HAVE exceeded the quota ,BUT lets hear their story to put it into perspective !!

 

[Lynne Roy]

So perhaps instead of a Motorhome I should invest in a boat and stay under the radar x

 

[deleted79651]

I don't think this is right. If you take 90 days away you have no more allowance left until another 90 days have passed in the UK as its only after 180 days that time previously spent in Schengen start to drop out of your rolling 180days and you've already used your full allowance.
24 of the original 90 days won't have expired until 114 days after returning from the original trip although you could go back after 90 days as you will be adding one day for each one that drops out until you reach another 90 days away

I disagree. The Regs were changed in 2013 to deal with the loophole used by many Brits [and other nationalities] to overcome the earlier 90 days limitation. The practice that was reported involved 1/4 to 30/6 Winter 90 days followed by a 1/7 to 30/9 Summer period of the same length. The Regs used to describe '3 months in 6 months'.

I've found the Guidance Notes for the 'EU Schengen Stay' calculator and the example on Page 6 confirms the rolling period, and the expiry of earlier days within the 180 days period [10 days unused from the 80 days used within the last 180 days + additional 10 days because on 30th June, the stay started on 1st January becomes irrelevant'].

<Broken link removed>

Steve

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[deleted79651]

So perhaps instead of a Motorhome I should invest in a boat and stay under the radar x

A submarine might be more successful ...

Steve

 

[deleted79651]

I may be giving it a go, we are seriously thinking of going for 8 weeks before christmas and then going back again just after new year and doing 90 days.

If questioned, which I doubt, i’ll just plead daft and say something like

“ I though it started again from Jan 1st”

He who dares wins

Ignorance of the law is no defence ... You may be lucky and get away with it if this is regarded as a transitional period, but, there again, you may not .

'M'sieu, if you cannot count 90 days in 180 days, how are you gonna calculate the angle of the sun through the prison bars, to stop your suntan becoming brown & whits stripes, eh, M'sieu? But the Judge has taken pity on you, mon pauvre Anglais. Since you wanted to stay for longer, he has awarded you 6 months accommodation in zees prison, and you do not 'ave to pay any site fees. 'E is a kind fellow, as you Brits say, Ah think, non?'

The new 'Only Fools & Horses' Xmas Special?

Steve

 

[gus-lopez]

and bearing in mind that English will [or has already] cease to be an official EU language,

So why is the new Eropean Digital Covid certificate in the language of the country + English? Fascinates me that does?

The Regs used to describe '3 months in 6 months'.

The practice that was reported involved 1/4 to 30/6 Winter 90 days followed by a 1/7 to 30/9 Summer period of the same length. The Regs used to describe '3 months in 6 months'.

The EU directive has always been plain. 90 consecutive days in one state then leave. You could go next door & have another 90 & the same again ad infinitum. Or stay out 24 hours & return & clock started again. But then you have to watch you haven't become 'tax resident'¿
If you stayed over 90 days you became a 'resident' automatically . If you did what you have described above then once over 183 days you would be even worse off as you became a 'tax resident'. you can be a 'resident' without being 'tax resident' & vice-versa

 

[dunnah01]

Much as it irks me to lose something I based my future plans on just bring on full fat ETIAS to avoid any misinterpretation - so when 'computer says No' it means 'No'.

 

[Lynne Roy]

We are desperate enough to d

A submarine might be more successful ...

Steve

We are desperate enough to try that too

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[altomos]

I'd be very interested too, can the two funsters overstay and let us know what happens

. Will report back one day!!!

 

[deleted79651]

So why is the new Eropean Digital Covid certificate in the language of the country + English? Fascinates me that does?



The EU directive has always been plain. 90 consecutive days in one state then leave. You could go next door & have another 90 & the same again ad infinitum. Or stay out 24 hours & return & clock started again. But then you have to watch you haven't become 'tax resident'¿
If you stayed over 90 days you became a 'resident' automatically . If you did what you have described above then once over 183 days you would be even worse off as you became a 'tax resident'. you can be a 'resident' without being 'tax resident' & vice-versa

I didn't breach the Regs, I was just quoting from the Introductory Notes to the EU document that I posted the Link to. Initially, working from memory, I thought the Regs changed around 2011, and I have a hazy recollection of some articles in the Telegraph and Guardian on the changes. The fact that the Regs changed suggests that some people were playing the system, and if they didn't become tax resident, they presumably evaded 'capture'?

Pre COVID and pre Brexit completion, we used to shop every Thursday morning at the local Super U; this was 'Ex Pats' morning, and there were n number of Brits only too keen to share details of how to play the system in various respects, followed by a 'learned discourse' on how youcan never trust these foreigners because they never obey the rules' ... Bizarre, but entertaining, in small doses ...

Steve

 

[deleted79651]

. Will report back one day!!!

When they let you out?

Steve

 

[jongood]

No you do not get a passport,only residencia

No, with residencia you basically have 90 in 180 same as others.

How Long is the Golden Visa for Spain Valid?​

The Golden Visa which you receive at the Embassy will be valid for one year. During this year, you have to enter Spain and exchange your visa for a Spain residence permit, which will be valid for two years.

The residence permit can then be renewed indefinitely, without any stay requirements, as long as you maintain your investment. You have to travel to Spain each time you need to renew your residence permit.

If you intend to actually live in Spain, then you can apply for permanent residence after five years of continuous residency (at least six months out of the year).

Can I Get Spain Citizenship by Investment?​

Yes, Spain’s Investor Visa is a pathway to citizenship, as long as you live in Spain for at least 10 years.

Although the process of becoming a resident of Spain through investment is pretty straightforward, to receive a passport, you must live in Spain for at least 6 months out of the year for ten years.

 

[ChrisL]

Now , as a UK citizen you are only allowed 90 days total in ALL or Any EU states.Because they left the Eu.

Sorry Gus but this not correct, it should read all or any Schengen states, you can spend 90 days within Schengen then visit Croatia or Bulgaria for 90 days or 90 days each for that matter, both are in the EU.

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