9 speed auto being phased out ?

[Lyrick]

In his latest review , of a Globecar Summit PVC, Peter Vaughan of MMM mentioned he'd been told that the 9 speed auto " didn't have long for this world"

Anybody else heard anything ?

Patrick

 

[Mzracer]

When I was driving vans I had a transit that did 200000 miles before I had it nicked, and it never had so much as a bulb go.
Show me a fiat that can do that.

I had a SAAB 93 TTID (Fiat twin turbo engine) done 150K miles before some bellend van driver rammed me on the motorway, not a single squeak from anything and that 1.9 engine was putting out a clean 200bhp and 400 Nm of torque.

This is going nowhere, we have our opinions and they are very different.

 

[bigtree]

Eco mode, maybe that's the reason, I'm always in comfort so I'll have to check. Even so I'm getting 60+ mpg on a decent run even in the UK.

And with what vehicle and power is this with ?

 

[TinaLes]

I didnt know Fiat Ducatos had the option of The Fiat 500 engines?, even so 60MPG is not possible achievable at any gearbox setting or driving style.
Bailey58 it must be a Typo mistake, surely,? we all live in hope, but see below.
LES
From Google: How much mpg does a Fiat 500 get?
The 1.2 has an official average of 55.4mpg (58.9mpg with stop/start), or 51.4mpg under the WLTP tests, and the 1.4-litre 46.3mpg (48.7mpg with stop/start), while the Abarths manage 43.4mpg, all under the NEDC.

 

[royandsharont]

I have the 140 engine with the 9 speed auto and have no problem at all with the performance.

Me too & no problems at all

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[royandsharont]

We too have the 140 with the 9 speed auto. Personally, I find it a delight to drive. Pulling nearly 4000kg and it gives me what I need. It's not a speed monster but then I don't want one and as another funster added here, we too are getting around 26/27 mpg. What's not to like?

I’m getting around 33mpg in our 3.5t Adria Twin. Love it

 

[Jonno1103]

Well Jonno1103 from reading some the information posted it seems the Ford you rave about has it’s own share of problems.

They all do. The injector recall issue didn't just effect Ford.

As for those 'rusted' to the head? It's because not many garages bother to invest in the correct puller for them so they snap. Aluminium doesn't rust or even 'fuse' with aluminium. The injectors on the Ecoblue are buried very deep and sit centrally under 6cms of rubber soundproofing. Any water would need to follow a course similar to the old Castrol GTX ads... if it didn't evaporate in the excessive heat this engine produces during it's Swiss alpine road type journey.

It would also help with possible water ingress into the bay if owners bothered to keep the scuttle drains clear so it doesn't overtop through the gap in the rear bonnet edge.

I'm enjoying the posts about Fiat's 160 engine when they no longer produce it and haven't done so for nearly 18 months. Not really helpful telling prospective owners how good it is if, infact, you can't get it.

You only need to read the figures to see how poor the Fiat 140 is but I suppose as most owners drive their vans well below national speed limits who could tell?

140 MULTIJET3 EURO 6D-FINAL​

The best-seller
Euro 6d-FINAL
Power: 140 HP (103 kW) at 3500 rpm
Torque: 350 (MT) Nm from 1400 to 2500 rpm 380 (AT) Nm from 1400 to 2250
Displacement: 2184 cc
Available with new 9-speed automatic transmission

If anyone believes £3600 is good value for a 9 speed auto box in order to get the torque anywhere near any of it's rivals on a van base which essentially hasn't been improved under the skin for past 16 years then there's not really much point in me trying to have an informed debate.

 

[Jonno1103]

Cracking motor's

Ford Transit mk7 tdci based Motorhome.

Has anyone else had injector and turbo problems with this motor.Recently had a new/not reconditioned one after total failure at 42,000 miles.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

That's a MK7 with a Duratec engine... phased out in 2017, same engine fitted into the Peugeot Boxer.

 

[Jonno1103]

Nothing wrong with the Fiat engine coupled to the 9 speed.
I opted for the 160hp for the 4250 heavy chassis and have not found it wanting at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I actually enjoy driving a van, never thought I would!

You wont on the 160 but Fiat no longer produce it or the 120. They now only produce the 140 & 180.

 

[Mzracer]

I'm enjoying the posts about Fiat's 160 engine when they no longer produce it and haven't done so for nearly 18 months. Not really helpful telling prospective owners how good it is if, infact, you can't get it.

Not everyone is looking to buy a new MH, I can afford a new MH but I choose to spend the money elsewhere, so discussions about 3 litre FIATS are quite on topic.

There will be a lot of 3 litre FIATS still around when I next change MH !!

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[Bailey58]

I didnt know Fiat Ducatos had the option of The Fiat 500 engines?, even so 60MPG is not possible achievable at any gearbox setting or driving style.
Bailey58 it must be a Typo mistake, surely,? we all live in hope, but see below.
LES
From Google: How much mpg does a Fiat 500 get?
The 1.2 has an official average of 55.4mpg (58.9mpg with stop/start), or 51.4mpg under the WLTP tests, and the 1.4-litre 46.3mpg (48.7mpg with stop/start), while the Abarths manage 43.4mpg, all under the NEDC.

And with what vehicle and power is this with ?

I didnt know Fiat Ducatos had the option of The Fiat 500 engines?, even so 60MPG is not possible achievable at any gearbox setting or driving style.
Bailey58 it must be a Typo mistake, surely,? we all live in hope, but see below.
LES
From Google: How much mpg does a Fiat 500 get?
The 1.2 has an official average of 55.4mpg (58.9mpg with stop/start), or 51.4mpg under the WLTP tests, and the 1.4-litre 46.3mpg (48.7mpg with stop/start), while the Abarths manage 43.4mpg, all under the NEDC.

Whoops my multi quotes worked in trumps but . . .
This is on a Mercedes AMG Line Estate 9G Tronic Diesel 68 plate, on a decent run frequently gets to 62/64 mpg on the display but I've kept fuel records since I bought the car (as I did with the motorhome since purchase) and I am getting mid 50's mpg since I've had it. On a slightly different comparison my DIL is getting 70mpg in a Nero 2 self charging hybrid on a 40 mile run across Norfolk.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

They all do. The injector recall issue didn't just effect Ford.

As for those 'rusted' to the head? It's because not many garages bother to invest in the correct puller for them so they snap. Aluminium doesn't rust or even 'fuse' with aluminium. The injectors on the Ecoblue are buried very deep and sit centrally under 6cms of rubber soundproofing. Any water would need to follow a course similar to the old Castrol GTX ads... if it didn't evaporate in the excessive heat this engine produces during it's Swiss alpine road type journey.

It would also help with possible water ingress into the bay if owners bothered to keep the scuttle drains clear so it doesn't overtop through the gap in the rear bonnet edge.

I'm enjoying the posts about Fiat's 160 engine when they no longer produce it and haven't done so for nearly 18 months. Not really helpful telling prospective owners how good it is if, infact, you can't get it.

You only need to read the figures to see how poor the Fiat 140 is but I suppose as most owners drive their vans well below national speed limits who could tell?

140 MULTIJET3 EURO 6D-FINAL​

The best-seller
Euro 6d-FINAL
Power: 140 HP (103 kW) at 3500 rpm
Torque: 350 (MT) Nm from 1400 to 2500 rpm 380 (AT) Nm from 1400 to 2250
Displacement: 2184 cc
Available with new 9-speed automatic transmission

If anyone believes £3600 is good value for a 9 speed auto box in order to get the torque anywhere near any of it's rivals on a van base which essentially hasn't been improved under the skin for past 16 years then there's not really much point in me trying to have an informed debate.

Ok, you hate Fiats. We get it. I have a new 140 with auto box on 3,5 tonnes and extremely pleased with it. I guess it looks like that we are mugs with no taste….. fine. I will take that.

Bottom line is more than enough power, smooth engine and gear change and what looks to be decent economy. I moved from a 3 litre V6 Merc auto to this and prefer the Fiat, having loved numerous Mercedes cars with the same engine

 

[TinaLes]

So Bailey58 just to clarify, whats the best MPG you have logged on the MH?

Being of Scottish decent, I have kept a fuel record also since getting the van from new, its a 2.3 ltr Multi Jet 150BHP on a manual box Euro6 running at 3850KGs.
Depending on route taken, wind direction, traffic congestion etc, worse case we get 23mpg, best case on a long run we get 28/29MPG.
I don't hang arround but tend to drive with a lite right foot, but I do try and drive to get the best MPG and the van usually tells me if I am driving it on "The Sweet Spot" in terms of revs & gearchanges, plus the average MPG gauge is also something to keep me focussed & entertained on a run as I try my best to keep it at 27.2MPG average.
LES

 

[Ditcha]

That's a MK7 with a Duratec engine... phased out in 2017, same engine fitted into the Peugeot Boxer.

I thought post no2 on that thread said it was a mk8 or am I seeing things

 

[Abgs]

I’ve got the 140 bhp / 9g combo in my 3.5t Carthago A Class. Initially I was unsure about buying it but it was the only 138 Carthago for sale at the time and the rest of the spec was bang on.

It does the job pretty well, I’m 1700 miles into the current trip and haven’t felt it lacking yet. I’ve been in the high Alps and it doesn’t feel like it struggling up the endless hairpin roads. The auto box is nice, Mrs Abgs has a 9g auto in her 2 litre Mercedes and the Fiat 9g is easily on par with that.

A bit more power would have been nice but this engine and box suits this Motorhome the way we use it. Trip average is 29.5 mpg according the digital readout, I reckon that will improve once out of the mountains and on a steady run around and back home.

That said if I was a delivery driver ragging my loaded Fiat Ducato van every day I’d want more power, but if I want to ‘make progress’ in a vehicle I’ve got my ol’ V8 Merc sitting back at home!

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[VXman]

Probably because of the extortionate price they charge for it together with a decent engine upgrade in order for it to compete with its rivals.

I certainly wouldn't part with an extra £6600 for the auto and their only engine cable of pulling a fully loaded 3500kg moho, the 180.

Friend of mine has this combination in a 5000kg tag Auto Trail, performance wise his reply was 'not good'.

The new Multijet III engines are rubbish which is really sad considering the Multijet I was such a great lump. They've had the life choked right out of them to reach Euro6D Final hence why they phased out the 120 & 160, no one wanted them.

Fiat's 180 only has a paltry 380Nm of torque when bolted to their manual gearbox so realitically it's not an option without spending the near £4000 on the 9 speed AT.
The 140 doesn't even bear mentioning. Compared to their cheapest rival Ford, Fiats standard option 140 has less pull than the 105 Ecoblue.

The refreshed 2024 Transit will have an 8 speed auto giving it a further 1750kg towing capability which will again knock a few dents into Fiat now that basically all of the coachbuilders are turning to the blue oval. Their 130 engine will still have 385Nm of torque but I've been told their 170 maybe increased from the standard 405Nm to around 440Nm.

However... 2024 model year coachbuilds & conversions on Fiat platforms are being marketed with the 9 speed option.

I have the 140 on a manual and load up to 4250kg. Never felt once that there was a lack of power/torque. Accelerates perfectly adequately for a motorhome. Cruises comfortably at 70. Took me up to 3000 metres in the Dolomites last year with no problem. To be honest - the front tyre grip is the bigger issue.

 

[Bailey58]

So Bailey58 just to clarify, whats the best MPG you have logged on the MH?

Being of Scottish decent, I have kept a fuel record also since getting the van from new, its a 2.3 ltr Multi Jet 150BHP on a manual box Euro6 running at 3850KGs.
Depending on route taken, wind direction, traffic congestion etc, worse case we get 23mpg, best case on a long run we get 28/29MPG.
I don't hang arround but tend to drive with a lite right foot, but I do try and drive to get the best MPG and the van usually tells me if I am driving it on "The Sweet Spot" in terms of revs & gearchanges, plus the average MPG gauge is also something to keep me focussed & entertained on a run as I try my best to keep it at 27.2MPG average.
LES

2013 Bailey Approach 2.2 HDI 130bhp bought from new (and sold at 11900 miles after ten years which is why I sold it ). 28mpg including 4000 odd miles to and from Norway, and it wasn't even run in.

Edit - just noticed you said best - don't know, only the mileage against the fuel consumption over ten years. It was better downhill in Norway than uphill.

 

[dash300]

Yes

You wont on the 160 but Fiat no longer produce it or the 120. They now only produce the 140 & 180.

I am aware of that, but it doesn't exclude me from the discussion as many others have them or might be thinking of buying a second hand one with the 9 speed box which the thread was originally about.

 

[1967bowesj]

I didnt know Fiat Ducatos had the option of The Fiat 500 engines?, even so 60MPG is not possible achievable at any gearbox setting or driving style.
Bailey58 it must be a Typo mistake, surely,? we all live in hope, but see below.
LES
From Google: How much mpg does a Fiat 500 get?
The 1.2 has an official average of 55.4mpg (58.9mpg with stop/start), or 51.4mpg under the WLTP tests, and the 1.4-litre 46.3mpg (48.7mpg with stop/start), while the Abarths manage 43.4mpg, all under the NEDC.

Les,
Ive just sold a renault clio 1.5 dci that easily did 75 plus on a run, 68 round the doors and it was 19 years old.

Rusty underneath though

 

[Just us on Tour]

I have the 180 engine with the 9 speed auto box. Currently 1400 miles. I’m not impressed at the moment to be honest. Pulling away from roundabouts is a bit of a chore (normal mode). My old 130 6 speed manual was better. I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt at the moment as it’s still low mileage and I’m hoping it will free up. If it’s not any better in a few more thousands of miles it’s back to the dealer for a checkup! It’s my first auto so maybe Im not driving it with a heavy enough right foot!

Hi Stevec
Is your van a tag by any chance ?

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[Sideshow Bob]

I have the 180 engine with the 9 speed auto box. Currently 1400 miles. I’m not impressed at the moment to be honest. Pulling away from roundabouts is a bit of a chore (normal mode). My old 130 6 speed manual was better. I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt at the moment as it’s still low mileage and I’m hoping it will free up. If it’s not any better in a few more thousands of miles it’s back to the dealer for a checkup! It’s my first auto so maybe Im not driving it with a heavy enough right foot!

Funnily enough I wasn’t too impressed at first, It seemed to take too long too change down at roundabouts etc when slowing down without stopping and then moving off in what felt like too high a gear but after putting a few miles on during a Spanish trip it feels fine now, think it went through some sort of learning process

 

[Steve and Denise]

Only the 5th gear to worry about but boxs are available or can be rebuilt easily now as most gearbox specialists have done plenty.

Ps dont cost ££kk like the comfortmatics.

You can replace 5th gear with the box in situ about an hour or so

 

[Dorwyn]

Apart from having no choice why would anyone choose a fiat, never been any good.

Wha? There's thousands of satisfied customers might disagree

 

[Lenny HB]

In his latest review , of a Globecar Summit PVC, Peter Vaughan of MMM mentioned he'd been told that the 9 speed auto " didn't have long for this world"

Anybody else heard anything ?

Patrick

Been to Carthago City today they reckon just a rumor, they are not aware of it.

I wonder if it's just a rumor put about by Brit converters as most build on Peugeot chassis who don't offer an auto.

 

[Rob Turner]

Funnily enough I wasn’t too impressed at first, It seemed to take too long too change down at roundabouts etc when slowing down without stopping and then moving off in what felt like too high a gear but after putting a few miles on during a Spanish trip it feels fine now, think it went through some sort of learning process

I think it does learn your driving style.
The first few thousand miles on my van wasn't the best experience for gear changes, i thought it was a bit of a ditherer and not really what I was expecting, no better than the comfortmatic, which I’m not slating by the way but it wasn’t anything exciting.

I’ve got 8000 miles on it now and it’s settled in a treat and is a pleasure to drive.

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[stevec]

Funnily enough I wasn’t too impressed at first, It seemed to take too long too change down at roundabouts etc when slowing down without stopping and then moving off in what felt like too high a gear but after putting a few miles on during a Spanish trip it feels fine now, think it went through some sort of learning process

I have just under 3000 now after a 6 week trip to France. My main gripe is that when going up through the gears after, say, a roundabout, the box changes up too soon such that the next gear is at lower revs than I would have liked so doesn't seem to pull away as quickly as I had hoped. Its encouraging to hear than things get better as the miles increase. I drive almost exclusively in "Normal" mode.

 

[Orion]

I have just under 3000 now after a 6 week trip to France. My main gripe is that when going up through the gears after, say, a roundabout, the box changes up too soon such that the next gear is at lower revs than I would have liked so doesn't seem to pull away as quickly as I had hoped. Its encouraging to hear than things get better as the miles increase. I drive almost exclusively in "Normal" mode.

Maybe put it into ‘Power’ (PWR) mode before entering the roundabout or junction? I’ve found it is more responsive and holds the gear for longer with that selection. ECO for motorways on cruise control or bimbling along on A roads, Normal elsewhere, and PWR when wanting a swiftish exit from a roundabout/junction works for me.

 

[andyjc]

Would be interested to know how it performs coming down when you're reliant on the brakes. Went up the Rossfeldstrasse near Berchtesgaden recently and despite being cautious on the way down and staying in 2nd gear ( in a manual) the brakes were still a bit smelly at the bottom.

 

[Orion]

Would be interested to know how it performs coming down when you're reliant on the brakes. Went up the Rossfeldstrasse near Berchtesgaden recently and despite being cautious on the way down and staying in 2nd gear ( in a manual) the brakes were still a bit smelly at the bottom.

It’s really good on the descents as it will try to maintain the speed/gear unless you speed up with the accelerator or start to touch the brakes. I’ve given ours a good workout over the Alps and through the mountains of Greece and Crete and it’s easily the most relaxing vehicle I’ve travelled in those circumstances so far, and that includes motorcycles, manual cars and an auto VW Amarok. Don’t forget that pushing the lever to the left effectively makes it a manual sequential ‘box, although the ‘brain’ will still override it if it detects the engine over revving or lugging.

 

[Jonno1103]

Ok, you hate Fiats. We get it. I have a new 140 with auto box on 3,5 tonnes and extremely pleased with it. I guess it looks like that we are mugs with no taste….. fine. I will take that.

Bottom line is more than enough power, smooth engine and gear change and what looks to be decent economy. I moved from a 3 litre V6 Merc auto to this and prefer the Fiat, having loved numerous Mercedes cars with the same engine

I don't hate Fiats per se, I just hate what they've done to the MJIII engine to reach emission standards. The first multijets were exceptional engines so too was the overall package when first introduced back in 2007.

As there was very weak competition in the skeletal chassis sector they've stood still. The light chassis is still the same as it was 16 years ago & the standard Series 8 now has a less robust rear suspension in order to lower the weight which ironically has lowered payloads. Engine & gearbox cost options are particularly expensive and in many cases the pricing structure means you have to opt for both adding nearly £7k to the price.

The 9 speed auto won't be phased out as now Fiat have reduced engine performance even more. From 2024 the 140 will only produce 320Nm on the manual box which quite frankly is rubbish considering it's a 2.2. You want 350Nm you'll need to spend heavily on the auto option. They've gone the opposite way, others are lessening cubic capacity whilst increasing performance.

Ok, this won't really effect those who like to creep along our motorways as 30mpg is some kind of victory or hate paying for toll roads but for many others it will.
Professional drivers in 3050kg segment want performance and pulling power.

Other manufacturers have moved on, caught Fiat and overtaken them in terms of price, build, performance, standard & customer options.

Everyone gives dogs abuse to Ford which is a bit of head scratcher considering VW will be using their Ecoblue engine and the T7 is a Transit Custom. VW will even be building them and rebadging their new Ford powered Caddy as the Transit Tourneo.

I doubt the largest vehicle manufacturer in world makes many mistakes when it comes to powertrain.

All of the coachbuilders are looking at the alternatives, you only need to look at what's being produced for 2024.

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[DuxDeluxe]

My rubbish (in your, but it seems nobody else’s opinion) Fiat is actually very good indeed