9 speed auto being phased out ?

[Lyrick]

In his latest review , of a Globecar Summit PVC, Peter Vaughan of MMM mentioned he'd been told that the 9 speed auto " didn't have long for this world"

Anybody else heard anything ?

Patrick

 

[TinaLes]

Well spotted Lyrick

Found the video, yes he does mention the ZF 9 speed auto box is "not long for this world", but doesn't say why, so frustrating, maybe the price at £3750 on top of all the other must have options like The UK comfort pack at £2K, God only knows.
Frustrating especially for people who are/were considering changing up from a Comfortmatic gear box which has been an expensive box to repair/maintain for those that have suffered a breakdown as its a very specialist job to fault find and repair/replace.
I wonder what the future alternative will be? Hopefully something that offers more peace of mind, as I have heard on here that even The ZF 9 speeds have had problems.
LES
Video link:

 

[WESTY66]

Maybe an updated comfortmatic

 

[Millcourt]

Or possibly the phasing out of ICE with the move to EV for smaller delivery vans…….but how this will work for MoHo conversion…….????

 

[Kannon Fodda]

but how this will work for MoHo conversion…….????

The Moho conversion market is now a minor priority for the Stellantis group. We know they can't build enough standard vans based on delivery times. Simplifying options and variants of vehicles improves overall productivity. They already dropped one engine type since the latest ducato version. I think of the whole Stellantis badged vans only Fiat has Auto. If there is limited commercial demand for auto gearboxes you can see why they might drop it.

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[Guigsy]

I heard ZF were making a ZF9 variant with the hybrid motor built in. Maybe it's not beefy enough for motorhome applications?

 

[Jonno1103]

Probably because of the extortionate price they charge for it together with a decent engine upgrade in order for it to compete with its rivals.

I certainly wouldn't part with an extra £6600 for the auto and their only engine cable of pulling a fully loaded 3500kg moho, the 180.

Friend of mine has this combination in a 5000kg tag Auto Trail, performance wise his reply was 'not good'.

The new Multijet III engines are rubbish which is really sad considering the Multijet I was such a great lump. They've had the life choked right out of them to reach Euro6D Final hence why they phased out the 120 & 160, no one wanted them.

Fiat's 180 only has a paltry 380Nm of torque when bolted to their manual gearbox so realitically it's not an option without spending the near £4000 on the 9 speed AT.
The 140 doesn't even bear mentioning. Compared to their cheapest rival Ford, Fiats standard option 140 has less pull than the 105 Ecoblue.

The refreshed 2024 Transit will have an 8 speed auto giving it a further 1750kg towing capability which will again knock a few dents into Fiat now that basically all of the coachbuilders are turning to the blue oval. Their 130 engine will still have 385Nm of torque but I've been told their 170 maybe increased from the standard 405Nm to around 440Nm.

However... 2024 model year coachbuilds & conversions on Fiat platforms are being marketed with the 9 speed option.

 

[Lyrick]

The 140 doesn't even bear mentioning. Compared to their cheapest rival Ford, Fiats standard option 140 has less pull than the 105 Ecoblue.

I have the 140 engine with the 9 speed auto and have no problem at all with the performance.

 

[dash300]

I have the 140 engine with the 9 speed auto and have no problem at all with the performance.

Nothing wrong with the Fiat engine coupled to the 9 speed.
I opted for the 160hp for the 4250 heavy chassis and have not found it wanting at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I actually enjoy driving a van, never thought I would!

 

[Billy192]

I have the 140 engine with the 9 speed auto and have no problem at all with the performance.

me too

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[Orion]

Nothing wrong with the Fiat engine coupled to the 9 speed.
I opted for the 160hp for the 4250 heavy chassis and have not found it wanting at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I actually enjoy driving a van, never thought I would!

Same here, although 160hp with the light chassis (although up plating to 4250kg as we speak). I’ve had an 8 speed ZF box before on a VW Amarok and I thought that was brilliant, but this unit is just soooo smooth I can’t detect it changing unless I look at the rev counter dipping when it does. Makes long distances a breeze in ECO mode and high mountain switchbacks the easiest I’ve done them when switched to PWR.

 

[Ditcha]

Probably because of the extortionate price they charge for it together with a decent engine upgrade in order for it to compete with its rivals.

I certainly wouldn't part with an extra £6600 for the auto and their only engine cable of pulling a fully loaded 3500kg moho, the 180.

Friend of mine has this combination in a 5000kg tag Auto Trail, performance wise his reply was 'not good'.

The new Multijet III engines are rubbish which is really sad considering the Multijet I was such a great lump. They've had the life choked right out of them to reach Euro6D Final hence why they phased out the 120 & 160, no one wanted them.

Fiat's 180 only has a paltry 380Nm of torque when bolted to their manual gearbox so realitically it's not an option without spending the near £4000 on the 9 speed AT.
The 140 doesn't even bear mentioning. Compared to their cheapest rival Ford, Fiats standard option 140 has less pull than the 105 Ecoblue.

The refreshed 2024 Transit will have an 8 speed auto giving it a further 1750kg towing capability which will again knock a few dents into Fiat now that basically all of the coachbuilders are turning to the blue oval. Their 130 engine will still have 385Nm of torque but I've been told their 170 maybe increased from the standard 405Nm to around 440Nm.

However... 2024 model year coachbuilds & conversions on Fiat platforms are being marketed with the 9 speed option.

Cracking motor's

Ford Transit mk7 tdci based Motorhome.

Has anyone else had injector and turbo problems with this motor.Recently had a new/not reconditioned one after total failure at 42,000 miles.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Ditcha]

In his latest review , of a Globecar Summit PVC, Peter Vaughan of MMM mentioned he'd been told that the 9 speed auto " didn't have long for this world"

Anybody else heard anything ?

Patrick

That's what I have heard ZF want out before Fiat trash their rep.

 

[TrudeandDall]

me too

And me..

 

[Guigsy]

That's what I have heard ZF want out before Fiat trash their rep.

The first car the ZF9 went in was a Chrysler. It's also in Jeep and several Jaguar and Land Rover products.

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[Tigger-Tim]

It seems daft having two 2.2 engines (Fiat and Peugeot/Citroen) from one manufacturer in quite a small segment. I wonder if they plan to converge on the Peugeot/Citroen engine? The auto has never been offered with the Peugeot/Citroen engine.

The new manufacturing plant in Gliwice (Poland) opened about 18 months ago, so is presumably up to speed. I think that's currently putting out Peugeot, CItroen and Vauxhall.

"One of the biggest changes that distinguishes the Ducato from the Jumper/Boxer clones are the drive units - until recently, Fiat installed 2.3 engines from Iveco, and after the latest facelift, they are to be replaced with 2.2 MultiJet3 units derived from the Jeep Cherokee. In the case of Jumper and Boxer, structures created by PSA are currently used, also with a capacity of 2.2 liters."

I suspect we'll see quite a bit of rationalisation over the next few years.

 

[stevec]

I have the 140 engine with the 9 speed auto and have no problem at all with the performance.

I have the 180 engine with the 9 speed auto box. Currently 1400 miles. I’m not impressed at the moment to be honest. Pulling away from roundabouts is a bit of a chore (normal mode). My old 130 6 speed manual was better. I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt at the moment as it’s still low mileage and I’m hoping it will free up. If it’s not any better in a few more thousands of miles it’s back to the dealer for a checkup! It’s my first auto so maybe Im not driving it with a heavy enough right foot!

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I see a new Toyota van is planned for next year. It looks rather familiar! "The new model is set to be built by Stellantis at its plants in Gliwice, Poland, and Atessa, Italy. Alongside the diesel-powered options, a fully electric offering will be made available too."

 

[CazPaul]

Well Jonno1103 from reading some the information posted it seems the Ford you rave about has it’s own share of problems.

 

[chaser]

Apart from having no choice why would anyone choose a fiat, never been any good.

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[Jackd]

I got told at the Newbury show, by an old mate who buys about 20 vans a year from Stelantis, that the Ducato is being phased out next year.
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but can’t think why he’d mention it if not.

 

[Lazyboy]

Just coming up to 16,000 miles, 31 months old as we speak (The van not me!!) Does the 9 speed auto do it for me? Yes it does. 180 bhp engine, 4,800 kgs GVW. No problems so far. Always has the right gear. Have been using the "power" button a lot in Norway and that makes a lot of difference climbing hills. Cruising on a motorway at about 60 mph it is returning 26.5 mpg and using about a litre of ad blue per 100 miles. It drives very competently and is "easy" to drive providing you accept that at 4,800 kgs you do not have a racing car. Having said that, it is the pre faced lifted dash so that is crap. Can't see speed etc.I would have preferred a Mercedes but there was not one available to this spec and at this weight. You can see that slowly they (Fiat) are losing the motorhome market with the increase in offerings from manufacturers using the Mercedes platform and the Ford in particular. Then there is the Renault and MAN/VW. So competition for Fiat has never been as acute as now. By all accounts their latest offering, although a big technical improvement, is not without its problems therefore making customers look elsewhere. As always build quality will be the defining factor and as such I can see them pulling away from the European motorhome market in favour of a global "delivery van" market

 

[G7UXG]

I’ve had a 2.3 180hp with the 6 speed Comfortmatic on a 5 tonne tag axle. Pulled its weight without any problem. Plenty of power for the job.

Changed that for a 2.3 180hp with the ZF 9 speed auto On a 5.5 tonne tag axle at 8.9 metres. That too, in my opinion, had enough power for the job, and averaged about 23 mpg on a 3000 mile trip.

I’ve now got a Mercedes based 8-metre tag axle at 5.5 tonnes with the Mercedes 9G auto. It has the latest OM654 2-litre diesel at 170hp and 400Nm of torque ( I think). Bought it with 4000 miles on the clock and I’ve only done about 1500 miles but it too has adequate power and is more than capable of pulling its weight.

I think both 9 speeds are far better than the Comfortmatics I’ve previously owned (I’ve had three in total) and provide a very smooth gear change.

The Mercedes, in my opinion, is much quieter with a better ride quality from the front end. I think it’s smoother and quicker from a standing start than the Fiat/ZF 9 speed I had previously. It’s also a tiny bit more economical, currently averaging about 24.5mpg and seems much more economical on AdBlue than the Fiats.

Performance wise, I’ve not been disappointed with any of them.

 

[Bleau’s]

We have just changed from a comformatic box to a 3 year old 9 speed auto with 180 bhp and tag axle on the way home could not believe how smooth it was and did not rev as high as the old one so seemed a lot quieter drive but it was empty , going away this weekend loaded so will let you know.

 

[andyelbac]

We too have the 140 with the 9 speed auto. Personally, I find it a delight to drive. Pulling nearly 4000kg and it gives me what I need. It's not a speed monster but then I don't want one and as another funster added here, we too are getting around 26/27 mpg. What's not to like?

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[Roby2008]

Maybe an updated comfortmatic

 

[Tigger-Tim]

Thinking about this a little more. The RamMaster in the USA is only sold as an auto. So I guess they could phase out the Ducato auto in Europe, but they'll have to keep it in the USA. Or not sell any vans there.

 

[Maggie and Raddie]

We too have the 140 with the 9 speed auto. Personally, I find it a delight to drive. Pulling nearly 4000kg and it gives me what I need. It's not a speed monster but then I don't want one and as another funster added here, we too are getting around 26/27 mpg. What's not to like?

I find ours exactly the same, very smooth and powerful enough for the job.

 

[Guigsy]

Thinking about this a little more. The RamMaster in the USA is only sold as an auto. So I guess they could phase out the Ducato auto in Europe, but they'll have to keep it in the USA. Or not sell any vans there.

They have a V6 petrol engine though. I think the engine is from a Jeep? They've never used the ZF9 as far as I'm aware.

 

[Roby2008]

I find ours exactly the same, very smooth and powerful enough for the job.

Us too, I did like the Comformatic on a 150 (well, I got used to its foibles) but the 9 speed on the 140 is a delight so far, only have 800km on it and mostly autobahn, but will go up over the Brenner this weekend and will see how it performs......