4250kg

[Jofang]

When the new legislation comes in for B ljcences we shall looking for a MH to have a max weight of 4250kg, but there don't appear to be any that fit into this category at present, so we're thinking of either uprating or downrating a MH to comply with 4250kg. I've trawled the net but can only find a Voyageur at 4500kg that could be downrated. Budget IRO £100k max. Any ideas on suitable models welcome.

 

[Dean14]

Not necessarily correct now though as it was N1 that the DVLA were focussing on and SV Tech have changed the information on their website to indicate that the revenue class ‘may’ not be altered.

https://www.svtech.co.uk/taxclass/

Some M1 class mohos (and even some N1) are still being up plated to PHGV and having the tax rate changed to £165 per year. Have a look at this thread from post #371 onwards for more details.

Current U.K. law on up plating has been changed WITHOUT consultation

It's 90 days in a rolling 180 days. Thanks for clarifying.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

If the DVLA are having a change of policy it might be worthwhile resubmitting your paperwork to see if you can have it amended to the PHGV tax class?

Still awaiting my new V5C so keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Orion]

Still awaiting my new V5C so keeping my fingers crossed.

Are you N1 or M1?

 

[The Artilleryman]

Lower VED rate no longer applies to new MHs or ones being updated after July '24 if catagory J on the V5C is either M1 or N1. We've just had ours updated and were expecting to have reduced VED - but alas, we missed out by 2 months. See attached note we received from SVTECH when we had ours done.



View attachment 976640

Lower VED rate no longer applies to new MHs or ones being updated after July '24 if catagory J on the V5C is either M1 or N1. We've just had ours updated and were expecting to have reduced VED - but alas, we missed out by 2 months. See attached note we received from SVTECH when we had ours done.



View attachment 976640

You don't say whether your moho is still classed P/LG or PHGV, over 3500kg it automatically becomes HGV. Also was the base vehicle N1 or M1 ?

 

[Brains]

Is he still wondering why you're is plated higher than his.
Your explanation to him didnt explain , or did I miss something?

Our van is plated at 3,880kg
Our actual weighbridge weight on tour with two people and all the food and kit for a month, fully loaded with fuel and a quarter tank of water is about 3,830kg

The German in the identical van next to us was plated at the standard 3,500kg.
His actual weight on tour with two people, plus a large dog, and a scooter on the back, plus all the food and kit for a month, fully loaded with fuel and a quarter tank of water would have been considerably more than us,
probably well over 4,000kg .....

He had no idea what is weight was, but he could see basis ours it was considerably over the 3.5t limit.

That said, our model of van can be plated at 4,100kg with no physical changes required, but you would need a C1 licence to drive it, which is not something your average European has without taking extended tests..

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[Brains]

Brains, not being pedantic but how do you know you had less stuff than him, bearing in mind you were within 20Kgs of your permitted max so would probably have been pretty well full up; and you don't know what his van weighed ?

You only have to open the massive rear garage our model of vans have.
(Suitable for a scooter and still space for the inflatable boat and the awning)

On ours you could still see the floor.
On his you could not see the ceiling.

 

[Happy Jack]

Our van is plated at 3,880kg
Our actual weighbridge weight on tour with two people and all the food and kit for a month, fully loaded with fuel and a quarter tank of water is about 3,830kg

The German in the identical van next to us was plated at the standard 3,500kg.
His actual weight on tour with two people, plus a large dog, and a scooter on the back, plus all the food and kit for a month, fully loaded with fuel and a quarter tank of water would have been considerably more than us,
probably well over 4,000kg .....

He had no idea what is weight was, but he could see basis ours it was considerably over the 3.5t limit.

That said, our model of van can be plated at 4,100kg with no physical changes required, but you would need a C1 licence to drive it, which is not something your average European has without taking extended tests..

Now I see.

 

[Happy Jack]

Now I see.

In my first reply to you, I had seen the bit where you said yours was plated for the UK market but you only stated that you had explained to the German that you had it on the weighbridge.
Perhaps you also told him about the UK market but forgot to put it in your explanation.

 

[ROCHESB]

I have a (conspiracy) theory;
DVLA are stopping people uprating vehicles to take advantage of the lower VED on vehicles over 3500kg so they avoid the revenue hit later when everyone plated at 3500kg uprates to 4250kg 'when' the UK adopts the same rules as the EU regarding the removal of C1 requirement for > 3500kg.

 

[Guigsy]

I have a (conspiracy) theory;
DVLA are stopping people uprating vehicles to take advantage of the lower VED on vehicles over 3500kg so they avoid the revenue hit later when everyone plated at 3500kg uprates to 4250kg 'when' the UK adopts the same rules as the EU regarding the removal of C1 requirement for > 3500kg.

The amount it would cost to create the report to estimate the additional revenue, plus the effort to make the law change, probably exceeds the extra revenue it'd generate for a decade. And in a decade, the the number of people with a C1 will have halved.

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[Dean14]

You don't say whether your moho is still classed P/LG or PHGV, over 3500kg it automatically becomes HGV. Also was the base vehicle N1 or M1 ?

Still waiting for my up-plated v5c to arrive. My initial v5c (at 500kg) had my mh shown as M1 and I have up-plated it to 3700kg. As soon as I get the v5c back I'm up-plating it further to 4000kg as have now had rear air assist fitted, but that's another story.

 

[gus-lopez]

My understanding was that the EU are considering the change to 4250kg.

It has been passed-
https://n332.es/the-new-vehicles-yo...-with-the-b-licence-in-spain/#google_vignette

https://www.kilometro11.com/en/here...l-implement-for-the-type-b-motorhome-license/

https://www.canarianweekly.com/post...riving-licences-that-could-affect-all-drivers

In Europe it is approved and ratified and will enter into legislation at the beginning of 2025. Whether the UK follows or not is yet to be seen.

yes it was passed after the EU elections but it is only Spain that introduces it as from 1st January 2025.The rest have until 2027 or 2028 to introduce the legislation.
The new driving licence types with chips & Qr codes in they have until 2030 to introduce I believe.

all in here somewhere.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2024-0095_EN.html

 

[Barriesimpson]

So in January I'm asking for an upgrade certificate from the factory. As I see it on the 'ficha técnica' I can go to 3.850 without any modifications to suspension, brakes or tyres.

 

[Bessy765]

Our Burstner bought new 2019, came plated at 4000 kg, newer ones at 4500kg,SV tech up plated ours to the same with no mods, why start at 4000 kg when no mods needed to 4500 kg if 3500 is the hinge point?
Would the requirement for the C1 medical for 70 plus change I would not think so?

 

[The Artilleryman]

Would the requirement for the C1 medical for 70 plus change I would not think so?

Here or EU ?
Here if C1 on grandfather rights, no change.
C1 rules are medical when applying, then every 5 years 45 - 65, then yearly.

C1 is a class 2 category hence the medical requirements.

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[Jofang]

If the new weight of 4250kg is adopted in the UK you should not need a C1, but at 70 a medical will be usual anyway irrespective of C1 or not.

 

[The Artilleryman]

4250kg is unlikely to be adopted here.

 

[Barriesimpson]

4250kg is unlikely to be adopted here.

I think it'll be necessary because of the new electric vehicles coming soon.

 

[Guigsy]

I think it'll be necessary because of the new electric vehicles coming soon.

But they've previously allowed it just for EVs. They could just reintroduce that.

 

[Barriesimpson]

But they've previously allowed it just for EVs. They could just reintroduce that.

Yes, ok, that might be the way. Spain has specifically included motorhomes in the legislation, fortunately for me.

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[Brains]

Yes, ok, that might be the way. Spain has specifically included motorhomes in the legislation, fortunately for me.

Rules really need to be broadly the same across Europe, otherwise you end up with silly situations where something is legal on one side of the road and illegal on the other.

Most of the other non-EU countries follow most EU rules by default.
The only time they don't is if the rule does not work in their favour, or if it's in an area where they may feel the EU should be following their rules.

Iceland for example follows nearly all EU rules except those related to fishing and finance.
As they think the EU will eventually get rules in those sectors upto Icelandic standards.
(Iceland understands fish conservation and they jail their bankers!)

 

[Barriesimpson]

Rules really need to be broadly the same across Europe, otherwise you end up with silly situations where something is legal on one side of the road and illegal on the other.

Most of the other non-EU countries follow most EU rules by default.
The only time they don't is if the rule does not work in their favour, or if it's in an area where they may feel the EU should be following their rules.

Iceland for example follows nearly all EU rules except those related to fishing and finance.
As they think the EU will eventually get rules in those sectors upto Icelandic standards.
(Iceland understands fish conservation and they jail their bankers!)

Yes, makes sense in the long run.

 

[Jonno1103]

The EU will adopt the 4250kg legislation for ICE powered vans from January 2025. The U.K. is expected to follow suit post March 2025 budget.

 

[Jonno1103]

Here or EU ?
Here if C1 on grandfather rights, no change.
C1 rules are medical when applying, then every 5 years 45 - 65, then yearly.

C1 is a class 2 category hence the medical requirements.

They're changing... or have changed the the C1 for post '97 license holders. I think it's every year now for the over 50's.

 

[The Artilleryman]

They're changing... or have changed the the C1 for post '97 license holders. I think it's every year now for the over 50's.

Evidence please.
As far as I'm aware there are no changes since I gave up bus driving during covid.
I still hold C1.
D4 medical is required every time your class 2 license is renewed IE:- every 5 years age 45 - 65, then annually from age 65.

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[10tenmen]

Evidence please.
As far as I'm aware there are no changes since I gave up bus driving during covid.
I still hold C1.
D4 medical is required every time your class 2 license is renewed IE:- every 5 years age 45 - 65, then annually from age 65.

These are the current rules. No change for pre 97 licence holders for C1.

HOW LONG DOES A C1 LICENCE LAST?​

The duration of your C1 licence depends on your age and when you passed your test.

• Drivers 44 years and under get a valid C1 to last five years.
• Drivers over 44 get a valid C1 for one year.
• If you passed your driver’s test before 1st January 1997, you have automatic C1 category status, as mentioned above. If you renew the licence after you turn 70, you get another 3 years validity.

 

[Lenny HB]

If the new weight of 4250kg is adopted in the UK you should not need a C1, but at 70 a medical will be usual anyway irrespective of C1 or not.

A medical is not required for a B licence at 70.

 

[nicholsong]

A bewildering topic!! Currently I am well below 3,500 kg so have no immediate problems but use my van mainly in Europe so if I were to upgrade I might face the prospect of needing a C1 licence in the UK but being OK with a B licence in Europe if plated at say 3,850kg!!! But another thread suggests the UK will fall into line.

I am currently fit enough for a C1 but who knows what the future holds so I am happy to stick below whatever the threshold is. However I find it completely bizarre that VED over 3500kg in the UK is almost exactly half of what you pay on smaller lighter and likely more fuel efficient vans that also likely cause less wear and tear to roads!!! There is absolutely no logic to that.

Does the same sort of bizarre upside-down VED structure apply elsewhere in Europe? How much does it cost to put a van on the road in Spain, France, Germany etc? I would be interested to know!

Poland and Obelieve also France

I have a (conspiracy) theory;
DVLA are stopping people uprating vehicles to take advantage of the lower VED on vehicles over 3500kg so they avoid the revenue hit later when everyone plated at 3500kg uprates to 4250kg 'when' the UK adopts the same rules as the EU regarding the removal of C1 requirement for > 3500kg.

DVLA are an Agency of the Department for Transport (DfT)

Neither DfR nor an Agency can alter the laws set down by Parliament by Acts or Statutory Instruments. Any attempt to do so would declared by a Court to be Ultra Vires (outside their powers) and therefore invalid.

It has been passed-
https://n332.es/the-new-vehicles-yo...-with-the-b-licence-in-spain/#google_vignette

https://www.kilometro11.com/en/here...l-implement-for-the-type-b-motorhome-license/

https://www.canarianweekly.com/post...riving-licences-that-could-affect-all-drivers

yes it was passed after the EU elections but it is only Spain that introduces it as from 1st January 2025.The rest have until 2027 or 2028 to introduce the legislation.
The new driving licence types with chips & Qr codes in they have until 2030 to introduce I believe.

all in here somewhere.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2024-0095_EN.html

But what is not clear is whether the EU Parliament has passed a Regulation, applicable to all Member States, or a Directive, which requires each Member State to pass domestic law in accordance with the Directive.
Some States do the latter but some either do not, or do not follow the letter of the Directive.

 

[Mart 63]

It has been passed-
https://n332.es/the-new-vehicles-yo...-with-the-b-licence-in-spain/#google_vignette

https://www.kilometro11.com/en/here...l-implement-for-the-type-b-motorhome-license/

https://www.canarianweekly.com/post...riving-licences-that-could-affect-all-drivers

yes it was passed after the EU elections but it is only Spain that introduces it as from 1st January 2025.The rest have until 2027 or 2028 to introduce the legislation.
The new driving licence types with chips & Qr codes in they have until 2030 to introduce I believe.

all in here somewhere.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2024-0095_EN.html

That's great news

 

[Jonno1103]

Evidence please.
As far as I'm aware there are no changes since I gave up bus driving during covid.
I still hold C1.
D4 medical is required every time your class 2 license is renewed IE:- every 5 years age 45 - 65, then annually from age 65.

Ah, so it's every year after 65 if you passed your test post '97? Thanks Artilleryan

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[Jofang]

A medical is not required for a B licence at 70.

Quite right Lenny, but reading the press it looks like this may be required in the future.