4250kg imminent?

[Jofang]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

 

[enark]

I would prefer the limit to stay at 3500kg. My Autosleeper is 4005kg and I enjoy the £165 PHGV tax rate. I don't want to lose that if they increase PHGV to 4250kg.

Just because the licence categories change does not necessarily mean the ved categories will?

 

[The Wino]

The ved rates are UK only I don't see why if we adopted EU licence weight limits it would have any effect on our national ved rates. That being said it is bonkers that ved is lower at higher weights the recent increases in employers NI would make way more difference to industry than increased ved but were still introduced!
Of course there could be other changes as time goes on that are less attractive maybe if ordinary licenses are increased in the weight permitted everyone ought to have medicals from age 70?

 

[weejocky]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

Still moaning, the vote you lost was over 8 years ago, and you're still calling friends and neighbours rude names. Get over it, or get out is good advice. But at least stop the whining.

 

[Gromett]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

Erm. I think you will find us bre***ier ass wipes are happy to take on sensible rules from anywhere if they are good ideas. What we objected to was the bad ideas being forced on us from outside amongst many other things

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[Jim]

Unlikely to happen here too many bre***ier ass wipes to let us adopt a sensible regulation from the EU.

Still moaning, the vote you lost was over 8 years ago, and you're still calling friends and neighbours rude names. Get over it, or get out is good advice. But at least stop the whining.

Hi guys...Have a nice Christmas in Coventry

 

[Mart 63]

Apparently it comes into force in Spain on the 1st January. But no insurance companies in Spain know anything about it, I asked when I was phoning around for quotes

 

[enark]

The ved rates are UK only I don't see why if we adopted EU licence weight limits it would have any effect on our national ved rates. That being said it is bonkers that ved is lower at higher weights the recent increases in employers NI would make way more difference to industry than increased ved but were still introduced!
Of course there could be other changes as time goes on that are less attractive maybe if ordinary licenses are increased in the weight permitted everyone ought to have medicals from age 70?

They are weight related to a degree

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64ca1f035c2e6f0013e8d967/v149x1-rates-of-vehicle-tax.pdf

Cant understand how MHs over £40k dont pay ADR, but not complaining

 

[enark]

Hi guys...Have a nice Christmas in Coventry

Nowt wrong with some parts of Coventry…….

 

[Jim]

Nowt wrong with some parts of Coventry…….

Never said there was.. Coventry

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[Gellyneck]

Never said there was.. Coventry

So why do you keep forcing our transgressors onto the poor residents of said place?
Anybody know what the weather is like there for the next week or two?

 

[gus-lopez]

Anyway regarding the paper licences, I wasn't sure why they even mentioned that, becouse unless the licence is more than about 10-15 years old it would already be a credit card sized one, I exchanged mine in about 2007 and got a paper one, but when I renewed my C1 in 2012, I received a credit card version.

The 'plastic' licence is changing again.
They have now to incorporate a 'chip' containing full details of the holder , points amount,offences, vehicles, address , etc;etc,etc; along with rfid . & all states have until 2030 to introduce the new system.

 

[Widge]

The 'plastic' licence is changing again.
They have now to incorporate a 'chip' containing full details of the holder , points amount,offences, vehicles, address , etc;etc,etc; along with rfid . & all states have until 2030 to introduce the new system.

Interestingly the first plastic licence I had, did have a chip, then subsequent ones didn't.

 

[Jonno1103]

Here's a wierd one for you all... As mentioned previously I recently passed by C/C1.

My brother In law (post '97 licence) after completing his D2 & D4 has received a letter 18th of December from the DVLA which states:

" From the information we have recieved about your Diabetes, which is treated by tablets or other injectable treatment, you satisfy the medical standards for safe driving for both Group 1 (car and/or motorcycle) and Group 2 (bus and/or lorry) driving entitlement.

I am pleased to tell you that a Group 1 and Group 2 driving licence has been issued. please let us know if it does not arrive in the next 14 days".

 

[SMB]

I believe the legislation that comes in, or is going to be discussed further, on 1st January 2025 is the EU 4th directive change from 3.5t to 4.25t. I read it somewhere and made a note to check in January. I have my C1 and previously had a 4250kgs moho but changed to 3500kgs as it makes life easier regarding speed limits and go-boxes, vignettes etc. I'm wondering what will happen regarding the speed limits if you can subsequently drive a 4250kg moho on a B licence because if they remain as they are at present I would stay with a 3500kgs moho when considering buying another.

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[PaulW2]

I believe the legislation that comes in, or is going to be discussed further, on 1st January 2025 is the EU 4th directive change from 3.5t to 4.25t. I read it somewhere and made a note to check in January. I have my C1 and previously had a 4250kgs moho but changed to 3500kgs as it makes life easier regarding speed limits and go-boxes, vignettes etc. I'm wondering what will happen regarding the speed limits if you can subsequently drive a 4250kg moho on a B licence because if they remain as they are at present I would stay with a 3500kgs moho when considering buying another.

Indeed. 3.5t restricted roads, different speed limits, Angles Morts stickers, tolls...

 

[Roby2008]

I had a look at the proposals here in Germany:

These are comments from the Promobil and ADAC websites.

Promobil: As part of the planned amendment to the Driving Licence Directive, the European Parliament has approved an extension of the B driving licence to 4.25 tonnes.
This change is to apply to motorhomes and ambulances, and, contrary to what was previously assumed, regardless of the drive. The addition in the draft of the driving licence amendments, which stated that the increase from 3.5 to 4.25 tonnes of permissible gross mass should only apply to vehicles with alternative drives, has been deleted. According to the new regulations, the widely used diesel semi-integrated with up to 4.25 tonnes may also be driven with a B driving licence.

Attention! The traffic rules, insurance, and toll conditions, etc. that previously applied to vehicles over 3.5 tonnes will not change as a result. In concrete terms, this means that you can now drive the four-ton mobile with a B driver's license, but the ban on overtaking trucks and the speed limit of 100 km/h on highways still apply (in Germany).

ADAC: The end of the 3.5-ton limit is by no means in sight all along the line.

Many regulations remain based on this limit. If you choose a heavier vehicle, you have to go to the main inspection twice as often; you are bound by the truck overtaking ban, truck bans, and 100 km/h speed limit in Germany. In addition, there are more expensive and complicated toll systems in many holiday destinations. The vast majority of motorhome buyers will therefore continue to buy a 3.5-tonne truck in the future for good reasons. It would therefore be devastating if manufacturers saw the extension of the driver's license as a signal to neglect all efforts to save weight.


The other EU member states will have the same rules with country-specific variations.

So a lot of noise for no gain as far as I am concerned, the Access, Speed and Testing limitations plus the not insignificant increase in toll charges make it a no go for me to make use of this, I will stay where I am and work on my less is more policy.

I did look at up-plating when it was first announced; however, here you can go only to the manufacturer-plated limit as a paper exercise, then it gets expensive and complex, my MH is on a 3625 kg Chassis, ( I am not going out in the snow to double-check), so not worth the effort and expense.

 

[Ads86]

I picked up the text below today from www.camping-car.org, which is dated 21st December 2024. The original text is in French.

The format of the three-part pink driving license was inconvenient and specific to France and some European countries. The new format called credit card is therefore closer to the format of the national identity card and other useful cards (health card, blue card, etc.). The new format is supplemented with various security features including watermark photography and page background. Its falsification therefore becomes much more difficult.

The new credit card format is also much less sensitive to handling accidents: rain, tearing, creasing, etc.

Finally, this format and its content are now officially recognized in all countries of the European Union and many EU partner countries (Norway for example).

But it is above all the fact of finally being able to officially drive vehicles with a GVW of 4250 kg with a B license that interests motorhome drivers. We are still far from the 7 to 8 tons authorized in most states in the United States and Canada. But it is a significant step towards the generalization of new vehicles with greater usability.

I've just spent £2.5k upgrading mine and my wife's licences to C1.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Is that not purely for electic powered commercial vehicles?

No, they cannot do that, it has to be for all vehicles.

 

[Barriesimpson]

Worth bearing in mind though that the increased limit does not automatically increase the GVW of a vehicle. So an overweight vehicle at 3,500KG will still be an overweight vehicle even with any uprating to the license.

I know you know this, but for other who may not.

The vehicle will need up plating obviously.

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[Lenny HB]

I've just spent £2.5k upgrading mine and my wife's licences to C1.

Is that a typo as I don't see how upgrading your licences can cost £2.5k.

 

[Ads86]

Is that a typo as I don't see how upgrading your licences can cost £2.5k.

No typo I'm afraid. £1250 each at Craig Baker to upgrade our licences. We could have arranged everything ourselves and saved £400 each but didn't have the time to arrange getting lessons/practice in a 3.5+ vehicle. Total waste of time upgrading, I feel no better prepped driving my motorhome tbh. But thems the rules

 

[Jofang]

I had a look at the proposals here in Germany:

These are comments from the Promobil and ADAC websites.

Promobil: As part of the planned amendment to the Driving Licence Directive, the European Parliament has approved an extension of the B driving licence to 4.25 tonnes.
This change is to apply to motorhomes and ambulances, and, contrary to what was previously assumed, regardless of the drive. The addition in the draft of the driving licence amendments, which stated that the increase from 3.5 to 4.25 tonnes of permissible gross mass should only apply to vehicles with alternative drives, has been deleted. According to the new regulations, the widely used diesel semi-integrated with up to 4.25 tonnes may also be driven with a B driving licence.

Attention! The traffic rules, insurance, and toll conditions, etc. that previously applied to vehicles over 3.5 tonnes will not change as a result. In concrete terms, this means that you can now drive the four-ton mobile with a B driver's license, but the ban on overtaking trucks and the speed limit of 100 km/h on highways still apply (in Germany).

ADAC: The end of the 3.5-ton limit is by no means in sight all along the line.

Many regulations remain based on this limit. If you choose a heavier vehicle, you have to go to the main inspection twice as often; you are bound by the truck overtaking ban, truck bans, and 100 km/h speed limit in Germany. In addition, there are more expensive and complicated toll systems in many holiday destinations. The vast majority of motorhome buyers will therefore continue to buy a 3.5-tonne truck in the future for good reasons. It would therefore be devastating if manufacturers saw the extension of the driver's license as a signal to neglect all efforts to save weight.


The other EU member states will have the same rules with country-specific variations.

So a lot of noise for no gain as far as I am concerned, the Access, Speed and Testing limitations plus the not insignificant increase in toll charges make it a no go for me to make use of this, I will stay where I am and work on my less is more policy.

I did look at up-plating when it was first announced; however, here you can go only to the manufacturer-plated limit as a paper exercise, then it gets expensive and complex, my MH is on a 3625 kg Chassis, ( I am not going out in the snow to double-check), so not worth the effort and expense.

Hi Roby
We live in France where the vehicle regulations are far less onerous than those in Germany. We need a vehicle test certificate every 2 years on our 5 ton Hymer and every 5 years on my bikes. I have spoken with bikers in Germany and they're unable to change ANYTHING on their bikes or add accessories without getting approval. Very strict, France is far more tolerant.

 

[Lenny HB]

No typo I'm afraid. £1250 each at Craig Baker to upgrade our licences. We could have arranged everything ourselves and saved £400 each but didn't have the time to arrange getting lessons/practice in a 3.5+ vehicle. Total waste of time upgrading, I feel no better prepped driving my motorhome tbh. But thems the rules

Didn't realise you meant to take a C1 test.

 

[Jofang]

Is that a typo as I don't see how upgrading your licences can cost £2.5k.

My friend in the UK has grandfather C1 rights and wants to retire to France but France will only accept a C1 driving test certificate. He was quoted £1,650 spread over 4 months training to get the licence.

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[Jofang]

Hi, I tried to have a look at the french version and the link took me to camping-car.fr, and couldn't find it, or did you get it from their facebook version.

Anyway regarding the paper licences, I wasn't sure why they even mentioned that, becouse unless the licence is more than about 10-15 years old it would already be a credit card sized one, I exchanged mine in about 2007 and got a paper one, but when I renewed my C1 in 2012, I received a credit card version.

I have also checked the goverment website. https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F2828
And I do not see any changes there, are they implying that it has already changed?

I've typed camping-car.org and went directly to the site. Suggest you try again.

 

[Peppadog]

I had a look at the proposals here in Germany:

These are comments from the Promobil and ADAC websites.

Promobil: As part of the planned amendment to the Driving Licence Directive, the European Parliament has approved an extension of the B driving licence to 4.25 tonnes.
This change is to apply to motorhomes and ambulances, and, contrary to what was previously assumed, regardless of the drive. The addition in the draft of the driving licence amendments, which stated that the increase from 3.5 to 4.25 tonnes of permissible gross mass should only apply to vehicles with alternative drives, has been deleted. According to the new regulations, the widely used diesel semi-integrated with up to 4.25 tonnes may also be driven with a B driving licence.

Attention! The traffic rules, insurance, and toll conditions, etc. that previously applied to vehicles over 3.5 tonnes will not change as a result. In concrete terms, this means that you can now drive the four-ton mobile with a B driver's license, but the ban on overtaking trucks and the speed limit of 100 km/h on highways still apply (in Germany).

ADAC: The end of the 3.5-ton limit is by no means in sight all along the line.

Many regulations remain based on this limit. If you choose a heavier vehicle, you have to go to the main inspection twice as often; you are bound by the truck overtaking ban, truck bans, and 100 km/h speed limit in Germany. In addition, there are more expensive and complicated toll systems in many holiday destinations. The vast majority of motorhome buyers will therefore continue to buy a 3.5-tonne truck in the future for good reasons. It would therefore be devastating if manufacturers saw the extension of the driver's license as a signal to neglect all efforts to save weight.


The other EU member states will have the same rules with country-specific variations.

So a lot of noise for no gain as far as I am concerned, the Access, Speed and Testing limitations plus the not insignificant increase in toll charges make it a no go for me to make use of this, I will stay where I am and work on my less is more policy.

I did look at up-plating when it was first announced; however, here you can go only to the manufacturer-plated limit as a paper exercise, then it gets expensive and complex, my MH is on a 3625 kg Chassis, ( I am not going out in the snow to double-check), so not worth the effort and expense.

If you go back to beginning of the thread, I think you will notice this would benefit the op who already has a ‘van over 3500kgs. and would prefer not to downsize.
That is the group who benefit from this change.
I already downsized due to the ball ache of renewing my C1 again. So too late for me.

 

[DDJC]

Nowt wrong with some parts of Coventry…….

Very well hidden parts ...

 

[varaizian]

Interestingly the first plastic licence I had, did have a chip, then subsequent ones didn't.

Mine from 2014 has a chip. Presumably they update the details centrally. By the time you add together the combined information on your driving licence, on your residency card and on your medical "Carte Vitale" there is not much missing.

 

[gus-lopez]

I have spoken with bikers in Germany and they're unable to change ANYTHING on their bikes or add accessories without getting approval.

Same here in spain for all vehicles. Plus if you convert any vehicle, as I have done, to MH or camper, it retains same requirement for ITV(mot) tests & any speed limits it had to adhere to.It used to be it changed to yearly after 10 years but now I still have to ITV every 6 months.

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[cyberyacht]

Whilst theoretically welcome, it doesn't alter your axle limits, which may become more of a constraint. The road/speed/signage limitations abroad are, as has been mentioned, a further restriction. Bit of a poisoned chalice really.