3500 KG - B License and why bother.

[Dizzyorwhat]

Stupid question coming here.....

Apologies if this is a very silly question but here goes. I know about the 3.5 tonne limit on a normal B driving license. Because of this we have only been looking at 3500 KG MHs and campervans. My question is this, if I bought one of these vehicles and then loaded it up with my collection of lead footballs which resulted in the overall weight of the vehicle exceeding 3.5 tonnes, what does this mean ? what are the risks ? I expect that if you were stopped by the police that they could take you aside and using a weighbridge weigh your vehicle, and if it exceeded 3.5 tonnes you would be in trouble ? (fines etc.).

Is this how it works ?
(I really don't have a collection of lead footballs...)

Do people need to weigh their vehicles fully loaded with deckchairs, bikes etc. to make sure that they don't weigh more than 3,5 tonnes before taking them on the road ?

I warned you... Sorry if I'm being stupid here, but this is something that I don't fully understand. When you buy a 3.5 tonne vehicle, does this mean that its under 3.5 when you drive it out of the showroom ? cos, obviously you can load it lightly or heavily depending on how many lead footballs you have.

Thanks for your patience on this one.

Regards
Ronan

 

[Orion]

The car limits only apply if the van is derived from a passenger carrying vehicle, if it was designed as a van the lower limits apply.
I don't believe it matters what it is registered as

My bad. Our earlier Citroen Berlingo vans were classed as CDVs but the current Peugeot Partners are not.

 

[Bailey58]

Seen motorhomes pulled in on the A17 at Sleaford along with the lorries but no idea of any outcome as we go sailing by.

 

[gus-lopez]

When you buy a 3.5 tonne vehicle, does this mean that its under 3.5 when you drive it out of the showroom ?

Maybe ,maybe not.

I expect that if you were stopped by the police that they could take you aside and using a weighbridge weigh your vehicle, and if it exceeded 3.5 tonnes you would be in trouble ? (fines etc.).

Yes

s this how it works ?

Yes

THIS is an interesting link.
I think some people are unaware of this and although it is at the moment only used for HGV's I suspect it will be rolled out to cover LGV's
in the near future, an opportunity to increase the revenue streams will not be missed.

****s have nothing better to do." to stop damage to the road infrastructe" Then build it correctly so it doesn't struggle with 45 tonnes : Put some decent asphalt down that doesn't melt in 35º+ like all other countries can manage.
Just an excuse to make money.,

 

[68c]

Although I have bought up the matter of the 3,050kg speed restrictions, it is very hard to know what your unladen weight is. Manufacturers rarely list it and if they do it may not apply after the dealer has added things like pull out awning, extra batteries, solar panels etc. The only way is to weigh it. As it is not often listed on your V5 I doubt any pursuing police officer would know what it is either. Even in the event of a serious accident, possibly causing death, would they really pick up every piece of debris and then unload the van to find its unladen weight? Like all things it helps to be aware of any laws that may affect you, including missing Sunday afternoon archery practise.

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[RedFrame]

PLEASE TELL ME. Has anyone EVER been stopped by the police etc re the weight of their van and what happened?

colyboy

Last paragraph post #3 above, it was at the Hereford Canoe Camping meet, I believe Drexxer might have been there too, guy by the name of "Warthog" was overweight (and not by a little!)

Cheers
Red.

 

[Gaston aires]

PLEASE TELL ME. Has anyone EVER been stopped by the police etc re the weight of their van and what happened?

colyboy

Only in Austria. I was well within limits and the police looked disappointed.
Everything bad in our van has happened in Austria, long story.
Phil

 

[Drexxer]

Last paragraph post #3 above, it was at the Hereford Canoe Camping meet, I believe Drexxer might have been there too, guy by the name of "Warthog" was overweight (and not by a little!)

Cheers
Red.

Yes that's right, his caravan was well overloaded, especially naughty as he is a professional truck driver

 

[gus-lopez]

it is very hard to know what your unladen weight is.

Quite simple here in spain.It is the weight of the van, chassis cab as it left the Fiat,Peugeot, Citroën, Ford assembly line usually. Everything after that by whoever is classed as out of the payload.

 

[Fdhadi]

I would guess that at least 80% of 3.5t motorhomes are overweight.
Even more so if 6 berth.
Just my honest opinion.

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[Trevor Wbm]

Although I have bought up the matter of the 3,050kg speed restrictions, it is very hard to know what your unladen weight is. Manufacturers rarely list it and if they do it may not apply after the dealer has added things like pull out awning, extra batteries, solar panels etc. The only way is to weigh it. As it is not often listed on your V5 I doubt any pursuing police officer would know what it is either. Even in the event of a serious accident, possibly causing death, would they really pick up every piece of debris and then unload the van to find its unladen weight? Like all things it helps to be aware of any laws that may affect you, including missing Sunday afternoon archery practise.

Crashes (there are no 'accidents' any more) are now investigated to the same forensic level as crime scenes when warranted, including reconstruction. So yes, they might pick up all the bits and weigh them.

 

[Dizzyorwhat]

Wow, what a wonderful set of replies. Thanks all for spending the time to add your tuppence worth. I'm wiser now !
The insurance issue if you have an accident is not something you want to be dealing with. I'll have to leave my footballs and the missus at home to make sure there is enough room for the Vino ;-) Also good to know about the graduated speed limits if we were ever over in God's country. I expect there are similar rules in the EU, now that I know about this, I can check. I think that when you first get the vehicle and fill it up with water, fuel, bikes etc. that it would be worth getting it weighed. You would have a rough idea after that what would risk throwing you over the 3.5 tonne threshold.

Once again thanks so much for the useful info.

 

[Lenny HB]

Also good to know about the graduated speed limits if we were ever over in God's country. I expect there are similar rules in the EU, now that I know about this, I can check.

Apart from the UK all countries go by gross weight for speed limits.
France for example under 3500 kg same as cars. Over 3500 kg 80 kph on normal roads, 70 kph limit in urban areas you are restricted to 50. Dual carriage ways & motorways with 110 limit its 100, 120 & 130 limits its 110.

 

[Brains]

PLEASE TELL ME. Has anyone EVER been stopped by the police etc re the weight of their van and what happened?

colyboy

Yes.

Some years ago, driving a LWB Merc Sprinter up the M1 fully loaded with all the gear for a band and their 6 person roadcrew.
Police pull along side with 'Follow Me' instruction.
I guess after a few miles it's a weight issue.
I tell the roadcrew to dump all the beer (at least a slab or two) and all other liquids, which they do.
They also all take a pee as well!
After about 20 miles we are taken into a weighbridge.

We were 7kg underweight!

I reckon if they had stopped us on the roadside before we had dumped all the beer, urine and 20+ miles of fuel we would have been overweight!

 

[Suenliam]

Dizzyorwhat - you might want to get the dealer/seller to take your proposed purchase to the weighbridge before you buy. As some have said before on this thread, quite a lot of MHs have far too low carrying capicity to be of any use at all. It's too late if you have already bought it.
Sue

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[62272]

If your motorhome is slightly overladen then aside from any safety/handling issues it stands the chance of being stopped at a routine multi agency/DOT weight check stop (regularly held on major routes), and you will be warned or fined accordingly.

If it is grossly overladen, it will be obvious to any experienced Roads‘ Policing Officer by the manner in which it is hanging down at the rear (generally), and they will stop you and escort you to the nearest public weigh bridge.

There is a range of options available to the officer based on the overweight excess as a percentage of the overall weight, or any individual axle. This ranges from a verbal warning, fixed penalty ticket (non-endorsable), fixed penalty endorsable (£200 + 3 points) if it is so overladen that it is considered dangerous, or a summons to appear at court (costing hundreds or thousands dependant on certain legal factors if found guilty).

My advice is to take your unladen new moho to a weigh bridge and get a weight. Then the same when fully laden. You should have a rough idea how much groups of items weigh (check on bathroom scales if necessary).

 

[cyberyacht]

I've weighed mine a couple of times since purchase and know I'm 'just' within 3500Kg. with full fuel and water. A situation where both tanks are full at the same time is relatively unusual, so a margin of safety.

IMHO anything over 6.5M and more than 2 people "will" be over 3500Kg. Even more so if you are a bit 'big' and have a dog or two.

 

[Dizzyorwhat]

If your motorhome is slightly overladen then aside from any safety/handling issues it stands the chance of being stopped at a routine multi agency/DOT weight check stop (regularly held on major routes), and you will be warned or fined accordingly.

If it is grossly overladen, it will be obvious to any experienced Roads‘ Policing Officer by the manner in which it is hanging down at the rear (generally), and they will stop you and escort you to the nearest public weigh bridge.

There is a range of options available to the officer based on the overweight excess as a percentage of the overall weight, or any individual axle. This ranges from a verbal warning, fixed penalty ticket (non-endorsable), fixed penalty endorsable (£200 + 3 points) if it is so overladen that it is considered dangerous, or a summons to appear at court (costing hundreds or thousands dependant on certain legal factors if found guilty).

My advice is to take your unladen new moho to a weigh bridge and get a weight. Then the same when fully laden. You should have a rough idea how much groups of items weigh (check on bathroom scales if necessary).

Thanks, this sounds sensible. I'm glad I asked the question in the first place.

 

[Edenside]

Don’t rely on the dealers brochure for payload as their figure is before all the extras are added ie sat dish, awning, bike rack etc etc

 

[nicholsong]

Maybe ,maybe not.

Yes

Yes

****s have nothing better to do." to stop damage to the road infrastructe" Then build it correctly so it doesn't struggle with 45 tonnes : Put some decent asphalt down that doesn't melt in 35º+ like all other countries can manage.
Just an excuse to make money.,

Richard

You really must stop posting factual answers - it confuses those with different opinions

You know you and I are usually on the same 'factual' track, so let's keep it up, regardless of the others

Geoff

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[Lenny HB]

Don’t rely on the dealers brochure for payload as their figure is before all the extras are added ie sat dish, awning, bike rack etc etc

Also most manufactures take advantage of the 5% tolerance and the van is 100+ kg over the brochure weight before you start adding extras.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I have a friend who was a traffic police officer. He did not know this rule even existed. Also I wonder if speed camera systems check this element of the V5 document.

I'd say they don't. Our conversion is still a van on the v5, not changed it over yet. I drive at MH speed limits and have never had a ticket corresponding to the lower ones.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

The car limits only apply if the van is derived from a passenger carrying vehicle, if it was designed as a van the lower limits apply.
I don't believe it matters what it is registered as

A van converted to a camper is covered by the same higher speed limits.

For speed limits, 'motorcaravans' have the same speed limit as cars.
Motorcaravan definition:
a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users.

That isn't necessarily the same definition DVLA use in their classification, but that's the wording for the traffic act and speed limits.

 

[barsteward]

Maybe ,maybe not.

Yes

Yes

****s have nothing better to do." to stop damage to the road infrastructe" Then build it correctly so it doesn't struggle with 45 tonnes : Put some decent asphalt down that doesn't melt in 35º+ like all other countries can manage.
Just an excuse to make money.,

Exactly why I try to point out to even experienced motor homers that this system is live. I see some 3.5 t m/h with garages that are like Aladdin's Cave never mind newbies. The question so many ask "How many people do you know that have been caught " is an irrelevancy.
Most of the 3.5t m/h are only designed to carry a max of 3.65 t carrying the loads that some do is down right dangerous.

 

[Jonno1103]

I think you will find it is 70mph on dual carriageways for a registered motorhome/motorcaravan of 3.5 tonnes

Not if the unladen weight is 3050kg or above. An Autotrail Imala 730 is 3500kg in standard spec but weighs 3190kg In Service... so even accounting for 90% of the fuel & driver it's still 3061kg which means 50mph on a single carriageway & 60mph on a dual carriageway.

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[barsteward]

Don’t rely on the dealers brochure for payload as their figure is before all the extras are added ie sat dish, awning, bike rack etc etc

Won't go into any detail but once when enquiring at a well known dealer about the payload of a 3.5t m/h I was interested in he said "I wouldn't bother to much about that' I don't know anyone that's ever been stopped anyway"

 

[Jonno1103]

Exactly why I try to point out to even experienced motor homers that this system is live. I see some 3.5 t m/h with garages that are like Aladdin's Cave never mind newbies. The question so many ask "How many people do you know that have been caught " is an irrelevancy.
Most of the 3.5t m/h are only designed to carry a max of 3.65 t carrying the loads that some do is down right dangerous.

I think this is too broad an answer without taking any of the nuances into account.

A 3500kg Mk8 Transit coachbuilt motorhome carrying 3800kg is nor more unsafe than the one parked next to it up plated to 4100kg carrying the same load.

Nothing is done to either of them in terms of tyres, rims, suspension or chassis... just a simple paper exercise... a sales toy.
Both sit on the same 235 tyres & 16 inch rims, both have the same motorhome specific chassis and both have the same suspension.

It's unlawful yes, but not unsafe.

 

[Stealaway]

I've weighed mine a couple of times since purchase and know I'm 'just' within 3500Kg. with full fuel and water. A situation where both tanks are full at the same time is relatively unusual, so a margin of safety.

IMHO anything over 6.5M and more than 2 people "will" be over 3500Kg. Even more so if you are a bit 'big' and have a dog or two.

We must be in the same gang.
I keep a tight check on my Burstner and it is tight.


Also.

My Ducato. Designed and built and vin plated by Fiat states that it is safe van up to 3650Kg.
Is this ever taken into account when they decide it's overweight at 3500kg?

 

[gus-lopez]

After about 20 miles we are taken into a weighbridge.

We were 7kg underweight!

I hope you claimed expenses? 5 miles is allowed & if over that, & you are under, they are liable for all costs.

standard spec but weighs 3190kg In Service... so even accounting for 90% of the fuel & driver it's still 3061kg which means 50mph on a single carriageway & 60mph on a dual carriageway.

But neither of those is the "unladen weight" . Unless the converter had it officially weighed for a new "unladen weight" . Which they would not do as it would show exactly how little payload you had.

 

[Wabs]

I’ve seen lots of vans on site, where they unload enough gear to launch a camping programme,,,and I’m thinking? If that’s not overweight,it’s a miracle,,,and then Jesus appears,,

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[Wabs]

I really don’t think many people have done their homework and realise what a payload is,,,,and dealers would sell you a two berth motorhome for six people and say,” they can sit in the not so large garage.