30mph or 20mph ?

[headlight]

If there is a 30 speed limit painted on the road of a country lane twice, no more than 30 metres apart but halfway between them there is a small sign saying 20mph then approaching the 20mph sign what is the limit 30 or 20 ?
Asking for a friend

 

[2x2camper]

It was implied by saying.....

But if you can't stick to the laws you are dangerous to other people.

If I speed I would agree. As we know no driver obays the laws all of the time so at some point we are all dangerous

 

[gus-lopez]

As I said else where unless down hill very few cyclist reach 20mph and certainly less can maintain it.

I can & have actually checked it against vehicles. & i am a cycle hating rider. who rarely uses a bike & when he does he knows he is an inconvenient waster. flat out is what you should be aiming for to avoid inconveniencing people.

In any case speed limits are not applicable to cyclists

don't come here then as everything applies to cyclists , on the phone, no hands,no helmets , not stopping at crossings etc.
same as the UK. regraldess of what you state. the explanation of cycling is simple.You have a choise when leaving the house,put it in the road & you are subject to all the laws the same as a motorist. you cannot stop at the crossing get off & walk over it . or you walk with the cycle as a pedestrian.That is how we were taught for cycling proficiency.

If I want dangerous people off the road I'd be starting with pedestrians jay walking, cyclists not stopping,

As I said else where unless down hill very few cyclist reach 20mph and certainly less can maintain it.

here we have many 20kmh limits . used to be past schools only but now they are popping up everywhere. worst offenders for failing to comply with them are the police, all 3 lots. I've only ever come across one person driving at that speed & it suited him as he was watching the fields to see how the crops were getting on.

 

[Capri Keith]

In any case speed limits are not applicable to cyclists

That’s not I was told when I was 14 and overtook a police car, he said speed limit applies to all road users. Yes it was down hill in 30 limit.

 

[Silver-Fox]

You are being a but pedantic when we are talking about speeds. But if you can't stick to the laws you are dangerous to other people.

Err you didn’t mention speeds when talking about dangerous driving

Nothing to do with being pedantic, I’m stating a fact you can build enough points to lose your license without it being dangerous driving.

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[2x2camper]

That’s not I was told when I was 14 and overtook a police car, he said speed limit applies to all road users. Yes it was down hill in 30 limit.

Then he was incorrect.

 

[2x2camper]

Err you didn’t mention speeds when talking about dangerous driving

Nothing to do with being pedantic, I’m stating a fact you can build enough points to lose your license without it being dangerous driving.

I did I haven't said it it is right that they do not apply

 

[cyberyacht]

It could make life a bit simpler if we adopted the French system of the village sign indicates the start and end of 30mph zones.

 

[headlight]

I have today driven along the very same road again and paid particular attention to the signage.
Just before the school there is a clearly visible 30 mph sign on the left.
Just past it on the same side is a sign totally obscured by bushes, I have no idea what that sign says.
Then just passed the obscured sign, just before the school, there is a 20mph sign on the left and opposite it on the right there is a post, looks newish as the pole is shiny, but no sign on it just a pole.
I think I am going to contest the fine.
The problem I can see is that if I am asked for photographs I cannot provide them as as there is no pavement or pathway there is no safe way of photographing them and I'm not prepared to stand in the road to do it.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

The problem I can see is that if I am asked for photographs I cannot provide them as as there is no pavement or pathway there is no safe way of photographing them and I'm not prepared to stand in the road to do it.

Don't worry about getting run over, they'll only be doing 20mph

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[Nigel P]

I have today driven along the very same road again and paid particular attention to the signage.
Just before the school there is a clearly visible 30 mph sign on the left.
Just past it on the same side is a sign totally obscured by bushes, I have no idea what that sign says.
Then just passed the obscured sign, just before the school, there is a 20mph sign on the left and opposite it on the right there is a post, looks newish as the pole is shiny, but no sign on it just a pole.
I think I am going to contest the fine.
The problem I can see is that if I am asked for photographs I cannot provide them as as there is no pavement or pathway there is no safe way of photographing them and I'm not prepared to stand in the road to do it.

If you look at contesting the issue a starting point would be to ask the Highway Authority for a copy of the relevant Traffic Regulation Order (TRO). Once you have seen what was authorised to be there you can assess whether in fact the signage is compliant, if you have trouble sleeping I have attached a document which might be some useful homework.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

 

[gus-lopez]

Then he was incorrect.

As you are.

The problem I can see is that if I am asked for photographs I cannot provide them as as there is no pavement or pathway there is no safe way of photographing them and I'm not prepared to stand in the road to do it.

You block the road with your van,hazard flahers on until you have taken the photos thst you want. If necessary take a second person to control the traffic and assist/prevent overtaking.

 

[Silver-Fox]

The problem I can see is that if I am asked for photographs I cannot provide them as as there is no pavement or pathway there is no safe way of photographing them and I'm not prepared to stand in the road to do it.

Just indicate left and stop on the side of the road and take pictures from inside your vehicle

 

[Coolcats]

If this is the case let me put the following scenario to you.
I drive into a town that neither I or my wife are familiar with, I see the 20mph sign as I drive in with my wife asleep beside me. I park up, wake my wife and we go for a meal at a local restaurant.
When we return to our vehicle my wife drives off alone, sees that we are in a built up area with street lights etc. and assumes that as per her teaching when taught to drive that so equipped streets were automatically limited to 30mph unless sineage to the contrary was repeated at specified intervals.
I would question in court that she had no reason to be aware of a different speed limit to the normal 30mph in a built up area with street lighting etc.

And no she didn't drive off alone due to a domestic!!

Totally understand but ignorance is no defence and times have changed we all need to be more aware of the changes that have and are happening. Most of us passed our driving test decades ago and there have been many changes and we ‘should’ as responsible drives be aware of how signage has changed I bet when your wife learnt to drive councils never painted the speed on the road, I know my council at the time didn’t.

 

[Sue and Rick]

If you look at contesting the issue a starting point would be to ask the Highway Authority for a copy of the relevant Traffic Regulation Order (TRO). Once you have seen what was authorised to be there you can assess whether in fact the signage is compliant, if you have trouble sleeping I have attached a document which might be some useful homework.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

I fell asleep reading it.

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[rod_vw]

Totally understand but ignorance is no defence and times have changed we all need to be more aware of the changes that have and are happening. Most of us passed our driving test decades ago and there have been many changes and we ‘should’ as responsible drives be aware of how signage has changed I bet when your wife learnt to drive councils never painted the speed on the road, I know my council at the time didn’t.

This wasn't aimed at the Welsh system but at the occasional town that has a 20mph limit. A driver who hasn't been in a situation to have seen the speed limits would automatically assume that the normal national rules applied. i.e. where the street furniture is appropriate for 30mph that is what it would be.

To put a different scenario, you arrive by train into the town to collect a car, how would you know that that town has a speed limit different to the norm when the signs are only at the road entrance to the town?

 

[Coolcats]

This wasn't aimed at the Welsh system but at the occasional town that has a 20mph limit. A driver who hasn't been in a situation to have seen the speed limits would automatically assume that the normal national rules applied. i.e. where the street furniture is appropriate for 30mph that is what it would be.

To put a different scenario, you arrive by train into the town to collect a car, how would you know that that town has a speed limit different to the norm when the signs are only at the road entrance to the town?

It’s the drivers responsibility to know and find out what the speed limit is.

Those ‘normal’ indications of street furniture distance between lamp posts etc have long gone.

Go to Suffolk most main roads are 50 not 60 so if you were dropped off by helicopter and you picked a car up and drove down a single carriageway road at 60 you would be prosecuted for speeding despite thinking it’s a country road with good visability.

 

[GJH]

This wasn't aimed at the Welsh system but at the occasional town that has a 20mph limit. A driver who hasn't been in a situation to have seen the speed limits would automatically assume that the normal national rules applied. i.e. where the street furniture is appropriate for 30mph that is what it would be.

To put a different scenario, you arrive by train into the town to collect a car, how would you know that that town has a speed limit different to the norm when the signs are only at the road entrance to the town?

Are there any towns with full 20 mph limits that don't have repeaters? The law requires that repeaters be put in place: https://www.tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tal/1999/tal-9-99.pdf
As I have said elsewhere, Middlesbrough has had 20 limits on residential roads for years but that is not all roads by any means. All the roads with a limit have signs at the start/end points, plus repeaters as required by law.

 

[gus-lopez]

If it has street lights = 30mph
single lane outside town = national speed limit=60mph
dual carriageway = 70 mph.
that is what I drive at.

It’s the drivers responsibility to know and find out what the speed limit is.

What like ringing the council to ask what can & can0¡'t be parked in all there different car parks? Yes right they can fr off

 

[Nigel P]

This wasn't aimed at the Welsh system but at the occasional town that has a 20mph limit. A driver who hasn't been in a situation to have seen the speed limits would automatically assume that the normal national rules applied. i.e. where the street furniture is appropriate for 30mph that is what it would be.

To put a different scenario, you arrive by train into the town to collect a car, how would you know that that town has a speed limit different to the norm when the signs are only at the road entrance to the town?

You would only need to drive 200m to find out.

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[Coolcats]

If it has street lights = 30mph
single lane outside town = national speed limit=60mph
dual carriageway = 70 mph.
that is what I drive at.

What like ringing the council to ask what can & can0¡'t be parked in all there different car parks? Yes right they can fr off

Oh err no that’s not correct, and is the old status.

You can enter a 20mph Zone you get notified once on entry and that’s it. So you could arrive by train pick a car up in that Zone and be caught for speeding, where it is not a zone and just a road 20mph will be shown on entry and repeater signs….

I don’t make this stuff up go and check the latest highway code

single lane outside of town can be 40 or 50 although in most cases these won’t ne zones so will have repeater signs where it used to be 60…..times change

 

[headlight]

Oh err no that’s not correct, and is the old status.

You can enter a 20mph Zone you get notified once on entry and that’s it. So you could arrive by train pick a car up in that Zone and be caught for speeding, where it is not a zone and just a road 20mph will be shown on entry and repeater signs….

I don’t make this stuff up go and check the latest highway code

single lane outside of town can be 40 or 50 although in most cases these won’t ne zones so will have repeater signs where it used to be 60…..times change

What if there is only a single 20mph sign on one side of the road ?

 

[Coolcats]

What if there is only a single 20mph sign on one side of the road ?

Highway code

 

[rod_vw]

Oh err no that’s not correct, and is the old status.

You can enter a 20mph Zone you get notified once on entry and that’s it. So you could arrive by train pick a car up in that Zone and be caught for speeding, where it is not a zone and just a road 20mph will be shown on entry and repeater signs….

I don’t make this stuff up go and check the latest highway code

single lane outside of town can be 40 or 50 although in most cases these won’t ne zones so will have repeater signs where it used to be 60…..times change

Cool it boys, let's sit back and see what happens in the various scenarios when someone takes it to court.

My bet is that in some circumstances the driver will be cleared and recommendations for changes in the signage will be made by a judge. Time will tell.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

Let's hope that today will mark the beginning of the end for this government who've been in power for 20 years.
As they say, 'Twenty's Plenty' I'll drink to that.
Any government who's been at the helm for so long should have moved the country forward, not dragged it backwards

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[Nanniemate]

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