30mph or 20mph ?

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If there is a 30 speed limit painted on the road of a country lane twice, no more than 30 metres apart but halfway between them there is a small sign saying 20mph then approaching the 20mph sign what is the limit 30 or 20 ?
Asking for a friend :cry:
 
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TheTwoOfUs said:
Don't know if this helps.
Pic 1 shows the signs when entering Knelston going towards Port Eynon.
Pic 2 shows the signs when entering Knelston coming from Port Eynon.
Pic 3 shows the signs when entering Knelston when coming from Port Eynon taken a few metres nearer but mysteriously the signs have disappeared. In fact in pic 2 the signs look as if they have been photoshopped in especially when they seem to be at an angle to the road.

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He stated in post #33 That he was coming from Port Eynon with the school on the left. so picture 1 is not in the right direction?

But that 30mph road marking is a bit odd. But looking at the route. It is within the 30mph zone (just) which then changes to a 20mph with both road markings and a large round sign on both sides of the road. So even so still legal.
 
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Gromett said:
Coming from port Eynon there is a 30mph zone before you enter the 20mph zone starting just before the sharp right hand bend.

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As far as I remember that 30 zone continues till just before you reach the school, then 20 from the school till just after the garage, they are only 15-20 yards from each other but on opposite sides of the road, then 30 then back to 40 ?
 
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I've re-checked and it must be an optical illusion but why they have angled them to the road I don't know.

Knelston 4.jpg
Knelston 5.jpg
 
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TheTwoOfUs said:
I've re-checked and it must be an optical illusion but why they have angled them to the road I don't know.

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If it was an optical illusion or camera artifact it wouldn't repeat from the other direction so I went and checked. You are correct it is twisted round a bit. My guess would be a tractor towing a trailer filled with straw bales clipped it.

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headlight said:
As far as I remember that 30 zone continues till just before you reach the school, then 20 from the school till just after the garage, they are only 15-20 yards from each other but on opposite sides of the road, then 30 then back to 40 ?
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I have now "virtually travelled" the road in both directions and other than that 30mph road marking right before it changes to 30mph I cannot see anything that would aid your defence sorry.
It appears there is a fairly long section of 30mph each side of the 20mph zone.

I am going to withdraw from this thread now as I think anything is just speculation and won't help you. But it was interesting non the less so thanks for sharing and taught us all something about repeaters.

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Pic 6 shows the approach to the school with the entrance on the left on the bend. No signs or road markings.

Knelston 6.jpg
 
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Coolcats said:
The painted signs on a road are not enforceable it is the signage on a post you take notice of.

Also if a whole area is 20mph then you get told once when you enter the area. Many residential roads are or have been 30 you get told once coming in to that area and it’s not repeated.

Edited to say you could appeal but always go by the mandatory sign not the painted one
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If this is the case let me put the following scenario to you.
I drive into a town that neither I or my wife are familiar with, I see the 20mph sign as I drive in with my wife asleep beside me. I park up, wake my wife and we go for a meal at a local restaurant.
When we return to our vehicle my wife drives off alone, sees that we are in a built up area with street lights etc. and assumes that as per her teaching when taught to drive that so equipped streets were automatically limited to 30mph unless sineage to the contrary was repeated at specified intervals.
I would question in court that she had no reason to be aware of a different speed limit to the normal 30mph in a built up area with street lighting etc.

And no she didn't drive off alone due to a domestic!!

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From my knowledge of roadmarkings, the markings on the road (roundals) have to be ajent to a pole mounted sign with the same speed limit. From my understanding the limit is 20 mph. It could well be that the speed limit was 30 mph and it has been reduced to 20 mph without the roundals being removed or masked.
However if you are pinged to exceeding 20 mph it is worth contesting the fine as there were to much conflicting signage.
 
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Life is too short, but if I really, really, wanted to contest the fine I would take a deep dive into the TRO that set this 20 mph limit and check it was made lawfully, and that the signage and road markings correspond exactly with the TRO. Otherwise they might be invalidated because of some minor irregularity. Don't also assume that the contractor who installed the signs and carried out the markings did a 100% proper job and got it right.
 
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The thing that always makes me chuckle is the 20mph at school times sign (not the 20mph when lights flash) ...I'm 56...I dont have a clue what school times are now, 8-3..9-5...6-2 🤷‍♂️
 
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gus-lopez said:
very true but in the uk it is the continual loss of points in addition to a fine that is the problem.here after 2 years they modified the laws so that you just pay a fine, reduced by 50% for being resident,
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Why is it a problem. Surely you want the dangerous drivers off the road?s
 
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What about the post where someone said there were no road signs indicating a lower speed limit.

Or did I miss something?

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busbuddy said:
The thing that always makes me chuckle is the 20mph at school times sign (not the 20mph when lights flash) ...I'm 56...I dont have a clue what school times are now, 8-3..9-5...6-2 🤷‍♂️
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Very often those 20 signs with the flashing lights are advisory.
 
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headlight said:
I've just written them another letter stating that I don't own and never have owned a Honda Civic so don't understand why they are sending me speeding fine letters for a Honda Civic.
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When I had a car cloned I ignored all the letters and turned up in court, the magistrate was furious that the prosecution had not checked the correct car again the reg....I would not have wanted to be on the end of his annoyance

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If its a smaller sign, say 25cm across, it's a repeater. Main signs are larger, say 40/45cm across, the same as all speed limit signs.
There may have been a main larger 20mph sign obscured by bush's, hedges etc.
Two local police motorcycle riders got ticketed, on their time off, for exceeding 30mph between two villages.... Around ½mile apart.
They got off as there were NO 30mph repeaters or STREET LIGHTING between the villages.
 
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Silver-Fox said:
Just do a search of how you can accumulate points on your licence on the gov website.

It doesn’t need to be dangerous driving.
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You are being a but pedantic when we are talking about speeds. But if you can't stick to the laws you are dangerous to other people.
 
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TheTwoOfUs said:
Don't know if this helps.
Pic 1 shows the signs when entering Knelston going towards Port Eynon.
Pic 2 shows the signs when entering Knelston coming from Port Eynon.
Pic 3 shows the signs when entering Knelston when coming from Port Eynon taken a few metres nearer but mysteriously the signs have disappeared. In fact in pic 2 the signs look as if they have been photoshopped in especially when they seem to be at an angle to the road.

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Last 2 pics are very nearly the same except the second is slightly zoomed in.
It's the same car approaching the slight right hand bend.
Soooo, the signs are shopped in one of the pics.
 
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headlight said:
immediately
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By all accounts now. watched a you tube where a bloke had claim denied on a 28k car when they found he had recieved 3 points 5 or 6 months into renewing policy .they really are tricky scum these days.
busbuddy said:
The thing that always makes me chuckle is the 20mph at school times sign (not the 20mph when lights flash) ...I'm 56...I dont have a clue what school times are now, 8-3..9-5...6-2 🤷‍♂️
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here at many schools it is simple. No Entry during school start & finish times as signed at the start of the road each end.
2x2camper said:
Why is it a problem. Surely you want the dangerous drivers off the road?s
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but they aren't dangerous . the cyclists are travelling faster in 20mph zones.
 
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2x2camper said:
You are being a but pedantic when we are talking about speeds. But if you can't stick to the laws you are dangerous to other people.
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Never broken a speed limit?
Somehow I don't believe you or anyone that's says they haven't.

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pappajohn said:
If its a smaller sign, say 25cm across, it's a repeater. Main signs are larger, say 40/45cm across, the same as all speed limit signs.
There may have been a main larger 20mph sign obscured by bush's, hedges etc.
Two local police motorcycle riders got ticketed, on their time off, for exceeding 30mph between two villages.... Around ½mile apart.
They got off as there were NO 30mph repeaters or STREET LIGHTING between the villages.
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And at the time 30 mph repeaters were not legal.
 
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gus-lopez said:
but they aren't dangerous . the cyclists are travelling faster in 20mph zones
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As I said else where unless down hill very few cyclist reach 20mph and certainly less can maintain it.

If you mean people riding illegal e-bikes that are effectively mopeds then that is a different matter. They are riding mopeds illegally not cycling.

In any case speed limits are not applicable to cyclists ;)

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