2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan?

[Gromett]

You do keep trying don't you.

It would seem some smart rational organisations like Mercedes would never come up with a Hydrogen powered Campervan even if it was only a concept

Holiday on hydrogen with the Mercedes Concept Sprinter F-CELL camper van​

The Mercedes Concept Sprinter F-CELL camper van raises the interesting possibility of hydrogen fuelled holidays in the near future​

I do believe that the Renault Master is a base vehicle for a number of MoHo's​

Both from 2018, No further news but Mercedes did announce last year that it was dropping all Hydrogen development except for a new deal with Volvo for trucks. If they came tomorrow. Would you buy one? They would have been extortionately expensive and you couldn't fill them in most of the UK.

Renault partners with Plug Power to develop hydrogen powered vans​

These may well sell in certain European markets where they have the hydrogen infrastructure. We don't have a national hydrogen fuelling station network, no one will buy them here except for the few niche players mentioned in previous threads. The vast bulk of vans in the UK do less than 100 miles a day and a cheaper battery EV that can be charged anywhere makes more sense than an expensive hydrogen van that can't be filled pretty much anywhere.

Renault is to launch zero-emission hybrid battery-hydrogen versions of its Kangoo light van and Master large vans.

Whoopdy doo. See previous response.

Renault has revealed its first hydrogen vehicles, the Kangoo ZEHydrogen and Master ZE Hydrogen, making it the first manufacturer to bring hydrogen-powered vans to production.

Clearly there are manufactures interested in using Hydrogen in the Future its never going away but invest meant is needed for the infrastructure challenges to overcome but anything is possible.

Again, They won't sell in the UK and the battery versions will outsell them massively.

The vans from the UK firm Arrival will kick their butts all over the place and take massive market share out of them.

 

[Coolcats]

You do keep trying don't you.


Both from 2018, No further news but Mercedes did announce last year that it was dropping all Hydrogen development except for a new deal with Volvo for trucks. If they came tomorrow. Would you buy one? They would have been extortionately expensive and you couldn't fill them in most of the UK.

These may well sell in certain European markets where they have the hydrogen infrastructure. We don't have a national hydrogen fuelling station network, no one will buy them here except for the few niche players mentioned in previous threads. The vast bulk of vans in the UK do less than 100 miles a day and a cheaper battery EV that can be charged anywhere makes more sense than an expensive hydrogen van that can't be filled pretty much anywhere.


Whoopdy doo. See previous response.



Again, They won't sell in the UK and the battery versions will outsell them massively.

The vans from the UK firm Arrival will kick their butts all over the place and take massive market share out of them.

Interesting as often innovation in motorsport often bleeds into mainstream vehicles

INEOS to push hydrogen fuel with Mercedes​

No need for woopdy do sarcasm or kicking butts polite responses please again I’m not saying I’m right but industry defiantly has an interest in Hydrogen as part of future energy sources and can’t understand why you argue so hard against it despite early adoption and trials.

 

[Gromett]

Interesting as often innovation in motorsport often bleeds into mainstream vehicles

INEOS to push hydrogen fuel with Mercedes​

No need for woopdy do sarcasm or kicking butts polite responses please again I’m not saying I’m right but industry defiantly has an interest in Hydrogen as part of future energy sources and can’t understand why you argue so hard against it despite early adoption and trials.

I have never said hydrogen isn't part of our future energy source. I have stated it is going to be very big. It just won't be cars, vans and trucks on UK roads.

INEOS are a fossil fuel company and don't want to be irrelevant in the future. These bio fuels they are talking about take hydrogen and CO2 and combine them to make a synthetic fossil fuel. HydroCarbon is hydrogen and carbon...

A lot of fossil fuel companies are pushing in this direction for obvious financial reasons.

 

[Coolcats]

I have never said hydrogen isn't part of our future energy source. I have stated it is going to be very big. It just won't be cars, vans and trucks on UK roads.

INEOS are a fossil fuel company and don't want to be irrelevant in the future. These bio fuels they are talking about take hydrogen and CO2 and combine them to make a synthetic fossil fuel. HydroCarbon is hydrogen and carbon...

A lot of fossil fuel companies are pushing in this direction for obvious financial reasons.

Interesting isn't it, we have Boiler companies who are producing natural gas boilers that can also use 100% Hydrogen, there is the petrochemical industry committed to a mix new green fuels and energy storage which include Hydrogen and Lithium batteries. Gas companies with a plan to convert our national gas network to Hydrogen, Governments investing in Competitions for companies to produce green energy in all its forms. Mega corporations are not going to lay back and say lets do it all with Batteries, the world and competition does not work that way it is political, and that political influence is also shaped by lobbyists and many paid to political parties to help shape policy.

Hydrogen will I suspect feature far more strongly in our day to day lives than we can imagine today and will include Hydrogen vehicles if the political decisions are the right ones.

Here is a sad story of political shaping of technology, Yes folks we could all have Fibre to our homes if it was not for this sorry tale,

How old decisions crippled modern UK connections:

How Thatcher killed the UK's superfast broadband before it even existed​

"Unfortunately, the Thatcher government decided that it wanted the American cable companies providing the same service to increase competition. So the decision was made to close down the local loop roll out and in 1991 that roll out was stopped. The two factories that BT had built to build fibre related components were sold to Fujitsu and HP, the assets were stripped and the expertise was shipped out to South East Asia.

 

[Gromett]

Interesting isn't it, we have Boiler companies who are producing natural gas boilers that can also use 100% Hydrogen, there is the petrochemical industry committed to a mix new green fuels and energy storage which include Hydrogen and Lithium batteries. Gas companies with a plan to convert our national gas network to Hydrogen, Governments investing in Competitions for companies to produce green energy in all its forms. Mega corporations are not going to lay back and say lets do it all with Batteries, the world and competition does not work that way it is political, and that political influence is also shaped by lobbyists and many paid to political parties to help shape policy.

Hydrogen will I suspect feature far more strongly in our day to day lives than we can imagine today and will include Hydrogen vehicles if the political decisions are the right ones.

I have said why I don't think hydrogen boilers will come to the UK. The cost of upgrading the network and the pumps to supply hydrogen country wide would be extortionate. The amount of electricity required to convert water to hydrogen for the gas network on top of supplying for car is just not practical. Finally burning hydrogen produces NOx unless you burn at lower efficiencies meaning you either need to burn more hydrogen or you have to live with NOx emissions.

Not to mention that if you convert electric to hydrogen, ship it to the house then burn it for heat you will get less energy than if you just transported the electric straight to the house and used resistive heating. Hydrogen will always be more expensive than just using resistive heating which is close to 100% efficient.

The reason boiler companies are developing hydrogen boilers is that they don't want to lose their business. When we stop burning natural gas for heat they are out of business. Of course they will look at hydrogen as a solution to save them. They are not going to just say oh that's us done then.

The best solution for heating in the house is to use heatpumps supplemented by resistive heating.

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[Coolcats]

Boris Johnson to unveil £3bn bus sector shake-up to drive 'levelling up​

The government is promising to deliver 4,000 new British-built electric or hydrogen buses, transition cities and regions across England to emission-free buses, and safeguard the UK bus manufacturing industry

Nice to see a good energy mix being mentioned who knows someone may even make a Hydrogen MoHo in the future anything is possible

 

[Gromett]

Coolcats

Scania backs up my position quite succinctly...

Read the full article here as it contains other info as well.

Scania’s commitment to battery electric vehicles

Scania’s aim is to be the leader in the shift towards a sustainable transport system. Battery electric vehicles will be the main tool to drive this shift and to enable decarbonised transport solutions with better transport economy to customers.

www.scania.com

But this is the salient point and confirms what I have been saying.

Scania has invested in hydrogen technologies and is currently the only heavy-duty vehicle manufacturer with vehicles in operations with customers. The engineers have gained valuable insights from these early tests and efforts will continue. However, going forward the use of hydrogen for such applications will be limited since three times as much renewable electricity is needed to power a hydrogen truck compared to a battery electric truck. A great deal of energy is namely lost in the production, distribution, and conversion back to electricity.

Repair and maintenance also need to be considered. The cost for a hydrogen vehicle will be higher than for a battery electric vehicle as its systems are more complex, such as an extensive air- and cooling system. Furthermore, hydrogen is a volatile gas which requires more maintenance to ensure safety.

However, hydrogen is a promising energy carrier; good way of storing energy over long cycles, and will play an important role in decarbonisation if produced in an environmentally friendly way. Scania looks forward to sourcing fossil free steel for its trucks as hydrogen will play a greater role in several industries.

Stationary fuel cells are an important component of the electric charging system. This solution is especially promising in areas with abundant renewable energy, and in rural areas off the main electricity grid.

 

[Coolcats]

Arriva Group places first Hydrogen bus order in The Netherlands​

McGill’s extends electric buses order to 35; hydrogen to follow​

World’s first hydrogen truck fleet on course for Switzerland​

Government announces £54m funding for next-gen hydrogen buses​

Clearly not everyone is following Scania

 

[Gromett]

Arriva Group places first Hydrogen bus order in The Netherlands​

10 buses...

How about the 22 Battery buses in this one. 1st one that came up when I searched on google.

McGill’s to go battery electric with substantial order from Pelican Yutong - CBW

McGill’s, the largest independently-owned bus operator in the UK, has placed a substantial EV bus order with Pelican Yutong. The vehicle order of 22 Yutong E12 battery electric buses fitted with 422kWh batteries will be [...]

cbwmagazine.com

McGill’s extends electric buses order to 35; hydrogen to follow​

HAHAHA!!! You shot yourself in the foot there. read the article, it lists all the battery busses then has this to say.

McGill’s says that it is in “advanced talks with a variety of partners” to bring 12 hydrogen fuel cell-electric examples into the Xplore Dundee fleet.

Not they haven't actually ordered any yet and when they do it will be 12 examples.

World’s first hydrogen truck fleet on course for Switzerland​

Marketing bumpf. They have had a couple in the country since early 2020 on test. No big contracts signed for supply yet.

Government announces £54m funding for next-gen hydrogen buses​

The headline doesn't match the details. 54m of funding has been provided of which £11.2 million is going to Wrightbus which is owned by the JCB family who need hydrogen for some of their big machinery. Again not a commercial order.
The rest is going to other areas of research and development such as batteries and power trains.

Clearly not everyone is following Scania

Scania IS big in hydrogen trucking being one of the few companies with actual commercially available hydrogen trucks in the market place operated by real companies not tax payer funded schemes or council run schemes.



While you are searching for hydrogen headlines, also look at Battery headlines.. Compare the numbers. Battery buses and truck sales outsell the hydrogen ones by a magnitude to the point where you can almost discount the hydrogen ones as a rounding error.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[68c]

Interesting that there was a section in the Census about hydrogen cars.

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[rjudge111]

I've recently got solar pv fitted by Solartherm UK that works with my Zappi EV charger

Would recommend this combination. It has cut my motoring costs massively every year

 

[Spriddler]

Coal gas was tried 100 years ago.

 

[CazPaul]

I've recently got solar pv fitted by Solartherm UK that works with my Zappi EV charger - https://solarthermuk.co.uk/solar-pv/

Would recommend this combination. It has cut my motoring costs massively every year

How does it cut your motoring costs?

 

[rjudge111]

off grid charging using my pv panels. Worth looking into if you’ve got an electric car and considering charging points

 

[Tony50]

Interesting as often innovation in motorsport often bleeds into mainstream vehicles

INEOS to push hydrogen fuel with Mercedes​

No need for woopdy do sarcasm or kicking butts polite responses please again I’m not saying I’m right but industry defiantly has an interest in Hydrogen as part of future energy sources and can’t understand why you argue so hard against it despite early adoption and trials.

I think that electric vehicles are a short Stop Gap until Hydrogen comes along ,when they are mass produced costs will come down, I for one will watch new developments in the next few years before buying a new car

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[autorouter]

I've recently got solar pv fitted by Solartherm UK that works with my Zappi EV charger

Would recommend this combination. It has cut my motoring costs massively every year

Even better if you have a few kWh of lithium storage, especially if you commute to work and can't charge from your house array during daylight hours.

 

[GAVLAD]

Do you think that the governments push to go electric on vehicles is anything to do with trying to off set the ginormous build costs for the new UK power stations being planned and built by our French and Chinese friends - by way of we know the build costs are astronomical, but by the time they’re up & running, nearly everyone will be needing you more and will be paying more?

 

[68c]

Not to worry, once sense returns and the poor are our back in their place, we gentlemen will be able to continue our motoring hobby. Either oil, electric or being pushed by the peasants.

 

[Jamesh]

What the cost of producing hydrogen?

Isn't it electricity hungry? Therefore like EV is just pushing emissions elsewhere?

Does nothing for global warming.....

Just thinking aloud.

Cheers James

 

[autorouter]

What the cost of producing hydrogen?

Isn't it electricity hungry? Therefore like EV is just pushing emissions elsewhere?

Does nothing for global warming.....

Hydrogen can be produced by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen using electricity. The idea is that the electricity will be produced from renewable resources, or at least from zero-carbon resources. Hydro-electricity, wind, solar, tidal etc.

The big problem right now is that most hydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons like methane, which produces CO2 as a waste product.

Work is ongoing, but it still needs development. There is a small steel plant in Sweden producing steel from iron ore, using hydrogen instead of coke. The hydrogen is produced from renewable electricity. It's part of a big steel complex that uses coke, but at least it's a beginning.

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[olley]

The best solution for heating in the house is to use heatpumps supplemented by resistive heating.

Two of the worst and most expensive ways to heat the majority of the uk's housing stock.

 

[Gromett]

Two of the worst and most expensive ways to heat the majority of the uk's housing stock.

Cheaper than hydrogen.

 

[olley]

I expect to be using methane in my boiler in 2040.

 

[Wabs]

I’d be happy to be alive in 2040

 

[olley]

I’d be happy to be alive in 2040

I will only be 90 still a youngster.

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[Wabs]

I will only be 90 still a youngster.

That’s makes me 80,,,my God I’m a baby,,,

 

[Dutch 68]

It's going to be interesting, maybe some back tracking around 2025 ?

Or a lot of late deliveries, plumbers and electricians not turning up, in fact everyone will have an excuse to be late "sorry guv, I'm stuck in a queue at the charging point"

Plumbers and electricians don’t need an excuse

 

[uzsnowdrop]

If I buy one of these I could travel as far as Hastings and back from my home in Eastbourne, near Hastings

 

[Gromett]

If I buy one of these I could travel as far as Hastings and back from my home in Eastbourne, near HastingsView attachment 523421

It is range extended, it has a petrol engine as well.

Probably not the best vehicle for a motorhome conversion. But not bad as a camper for local use.

 

[buttons]

By then FIAT ought to have brought out the next generation Ducato (and its Peugeot / Citroen variants) not merely another facelift.

The X290 replacement seems long overdue. I will be hoping it is at least a hybrid. In which case I will be very tempted to buy another PVC. Diesel or petrol hybrid, I don't mind which.

No idea what I'm talking about SD but we are beginning to see large numbers of Amazon delivery vans and others which are totally electric. Would this suggest that some vans are already available for conversion to motorhomes.

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