2000w pure sine wave inverter recommendations

[BOWHOUSE52]

That is why motorhome Fun is such a great site to be on Hope you g

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

Sorry Pressed send to soon what I was trying to say Hope you get the set up you require I found taking my time and reading about all the fact payed of for us

 

[Odd-no-more]

For years I had a cheap Chinese inverter, it 'worked' from a ciggy plug and had shoestring cables, it was rated at 1200w. I never used, it was just there "in case"
When I tried to run the frother from it, it cut out, which was lucky as the socket is fused at 10 amps. Now I have a reasonable set up that, although it will strain the battery, does what I wanted. The cost is about £300 all in, the only regret is choosing the 2000w not the 1000w inverter. This is because I may be tempted to run more powerful things in future. At the back of my mind is my coffee machine at 1500w which the inverter would power, but I would have to get lithium and increase the cable size as well as more solar. It's already an expensive coffee maker and it could be an extremely expensive coffee maker.

 

[Sandancers]

For years I had a cheap Chinese inverter, it 'worked' from a ciggy plug and had shoestring cables, it was rated at 1200w. I never used, it was just there "in case"
When I tried to run the frother from it, it cut out, which was lucky as the socket is fused at 10 amps. Now I have a reasonable set up that, although it will strain the battery, does what I wanted. The cost is about £300 all in, the only regret is choosing the 2000w not the 1000w inverter. This is because I may be tempted to run more powerful things in future. At the back of my mind is my coffee machine at 1500w which the inverter would power, but I would have to get lithium and increase the cable size as well as more solar. It's already an expensive coffee maker and it could be an extremely expensive coffee maker.

Ah well, according to info I saw on the Photonics website you also have to be careful about equipment which has a high start up current, such as stuff with a motor. The start up current may be up to 4 times the running current and hence you might need an even bigger inverter than you planned for.

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

This is exactly why you have to plan what equipment you really require Then draw a line at that point because you could go on & on and the original idea which was probably to keep the little Ladies hair dryer going for no more than 10 mins and other items that DO YOU REALLY NEED keep it simple put a spoon of coffee in a cup boil your water in the kettle with your new set up Job Done

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[MisterB]

Ah well, according to info I saw on the Photonics website you also have to be careful about equipment which has a high start up current, such as stuff with a motor. The start up current may be up to 4 times the running current and hence you might need an even bigger inverter than you planned for.

Thats exactly what I found when I started installing my setup, so that and being able to use more than one appliance at a time prompted me to go for the 3000w Renogy.

The Ex-Gasman

You know you will eventually migrate to lithium ...... - just don't do it for the sake of having it!

 

[Stewen]

So having returned from our trip I have been thinking a bit more about rcd protection when on the inverter ( Renogy 2000w). The sales blurb on their web site stated it had full gfci (rcd) protection. But it hasnt. I took this up with Renogy and they said that there was a mistake in their advertising as there is no such protection on their inverters. I told them this could amount to misselling & they suggested I return the unit to Amazon. Now I bought the inverter in March but only fitted it in May, so well outside Amazons 30 day returns window. However, I phoned Amazon & they processed the return without question! This issue was originally brought up on another forum so I wonder if others have returned units on the same premise? The ads have since been changed.

The inverter worked fine for what we wanted and seemed perfectly safe,

To be fair to Renogy, they were very helpful and sent this proposed solution - see screenshot - I’m not sure if its electrically correct though.

Plan B is to save up for a Victron multiplus.

 

[Odd-no-more]

As I understand it, which is not necessary correct although I have done some research, an inverter is similar to a generator and has a "floating earth" so am RCD is not required????

 

[Tombola]

As I understand it, which is not necessary correct although I have done some research, an inverter is similar to a generator and has a "floating earth" so am RCD is not required????

And me

 

[Stewen]

As I understand it, which is not necessary correct although I have done some research, an inverter is similar to a generator and has a "floating earth" so am RCD is not required????

I think you are right in that with a floating earth, an RCD, if fitted, wouldn’t trip. Not all inverters are the same though and from what I’ve read on here & elsewhere, my understanding ( which I hope is correct ) is that the Victron multiplus has auto transfer and a relay that bonds earth to neutral when on inverter power and so allows the motorhomes rcd’s to trip in the event of an earth fault, and then unbonds when ehu is detected as N&E are already bonded upstream of the ehu connection.

Its my preference to have rcd protection when on inverter power which is what I thought the Renogy had, but because they don’t I’ve sent it back.

Its all a learning curve and it might not matter to the majority of Renogy inverter users particularly if not integrating into the moho mains sockets. I’m not suggesting or implying that everyone returns them or that they are dangerous in any way. I just wanted to share my experience and the fact that their adverts were misleading.

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[TheCaller]

As I understand it, which is not necessary correct although I have done some research, an inverter is similar to a generator and has a "floating earth" so am RCD is not required????

I think it's not so much that an RCB is not required, but more that it could be ineffective (& thus may give a false sense of security).

I am a bit hazy on RCB operation, but my understanding is it depends on recognising a difference in the current flowing in the 'live' & 'neutral' lines. I've put those words in quotes deliberately.

What follows is my understanding, but it's not necessarily correct!

In a normal mains situation, whether at home or on EHU, the neutral line is bonded to the earth line. Thus with reference to earth (& that includes you, because you are standing on it), the only voltage is between you/earth/neutral & the live line & that will be 230v. So if a fault exists such that some of the current is flowing through you to earth, then there will be less current flowing back via the neutral line. The RCB recognises there is now a difference between what is flowing on the live & neutral lines & so it trips.

An inverter can be wired the same way. The neutral wire can be connected to the earth terminal on the casing & you could connect that to the van chassis. If a fault now exists such that current can flow from a faulty appliance through you to the van chassis, there will be less current returning via the neutral line & the RCB will trip.

Alternatively, an inverter can have no connection between either wire & earth. In a fault situation, you might be connected to either wire, but unless you were also connected to the other wire, there would be no circuit for the current to flow through. You would be a bit like a bird on a high voltage power line. If you did manage to be in touch with both wires, it would kill you, but an RCB wouldn't have helped, because the same current would be flowing in both wires. Generally though, two simultaneous faults would be needed to be dangerous. If one wire had chafed & was in contact with the chassis & you managed to complete a circuit to the other wire via another fault, then an RCB wouldn't have helped.

Finally, for transformer based inverters, there is the option of a 'centre tap' system. Here the earth connection (& thus your van chassis) is connected to the centre of the transformer, such that both wires are 'live', but at 115v with reference to earth. Now 115v is still a killer, but needs a better connection through you to earth to do so that 230v does. But both wires are now live, not just one. I can't see why an RCB wouldn't work in this situation, but I'm beyond by level of knowledge at this point.

The discussion rumbles on as to which of the above gives the greatest overall safety, but clearly it is important to know how an inverter is wired to know whether an RCB is, or could be effective.

Some related considerations:
Ring mains are a UK domestic wiring peculiarity. Depending on your point of view, they are either a clever idea or an abomination. They are not considered appropriate to vehicle installations.
Fuses are there to protect wiring, not people or appliances.

 

[Odd-no-more]

In a normal mains situation, whether at home or on EHU, the neutral line is bonded to the earth line.

This is not the case for EHU "caravan" supplies do not, or at least should not, have a PME earth (neutral and earth bonded) and not all houses have this type of earth either. The reason is a PME earth is shared between properties so an earth fault at one property could cause the earth to become live at another property. The risk is small but on a caravan/Moho with lots of metal the consequences are much greater
When I fitted the socket for my Moho at home.I put in an earth rod (TT earth).

When I tested my inverter voltage with my 16th edition test set it only showed 115 volts along with an earth fault, when I used a multimeter it showed 230 volts. Some advice I received was that with the inverter the current alternated between live and neutral with each having 115 volts, giving 230 volts it total. If this is correct then an RCD would not work unless there was a fault on both L and N at the same time.
I was thinking of fitting an RCD after the inverter but was advised against it.
Some of this is above my head (a lot of it actually ) but I think I am safe with the installation I have.

 

[TheCaller]

This is not the case for EHU "caravan" supplies do not, or at least should not, have a PME earth (neutral and earth bonded) and not all houses have this type of earth either.

I must admit I don't know anything about the differing earthing arrangements between domestic supplies & campsite EHUs.

When I tested my inverter voltage with my 16th edition test set it only showed 115 volts along with an earth fault, when I used a multimeter it showed 230 volts.

That sounds as if it's wired in either the 2nd or 3rd way I outlined above. I suspect that you are correct that an RCB is likely to be ineffective, other than in exceptional circumstances.