1000w inverter: can this accommodate a 1000w hairdryer or not ?

[sweet caroline]

Hi and a Merry Christmas.
Having decided to go off Grid for 2 weeks starting onteh 27th Decmber, for the very first time, since buying Renee, in August.
I've asked about the water tank, where to fill it, etc. for showers, and emptying all your wastes, etc., so now I know about this.

What I didn't ask was, as a woman, I need my hairdryer and hot brush each morning. Would the 1000-volt invertor that has been installed take on the task of doing my hair or not?


I don't want to try, and then find I have completely FUSED or worse FRAZZLED the fuse board, Can any of you merry men or women out there, answer this question please?.

Then I am good to go on my first Off-grid expectation around the Penines, and the Lake Windermere! Hopefully with more confidence as the days are being ticked off. Frightened, but if we don't face our FEARS, then we will never be able to enjoy our OAP Retirement
Thank you so much

 

[headlight]

sweet caroline have you used your van off grid at all yet or have you only used it plugged into EHU ?

 

[CJK]

Hi and a Merry Christmas.
Having decided to go off Grid for 2 weeks starting onteh 27th Decmber, for the very first time, since buying Renee, in August.
I've asked about the water tank, where to fill it, etc. for showers, and emptying all your wastes, etc., so now I know about this.

What I didn't ask was, as a woman, I need my hairdryer and hot brush each morning. Would the 1000-volt invertor that has been installed take on the task of doing my hair or not?


I don't want to try, and then find I have completely FUSED or worse FRAZZLED the fuse board, Can any of you merry men or women out there, answer this question please?.

Then I am good to go on my first Off-grid expectation around the Penines, and the Lake Windermere! Hopefully with more confidence as the days are being ticked off. Frightened, but if we don't face our FEARS, then we will never be able to enjoy our OAP Retirement
Thank you so much

Look, I hate to share my lack of ablutions with all you chaps but I have to step in here! For goodness sake DON’T WASH! If you wash your hair every day, it needs washing every day. I’ve trained mine to go without for weeks. Winter is good because as someone said, you can wear a hat on the horrid training days. Extend the time. It gets easier, trust me. I use a garden sprayer (not a garden hose, one of those little bottles) to damp it and fluff it about if I need to look as though I give a damn. So just get down and dirty girl and you’ll find Freedom. It’s just not something you’ll be able to boast about…

 

[quentinsf]

My wife is also a huge fan of the boar-bristle hairbrush she recently bought, specifically because it allows her not to wash it every day when in the van and yet keeps it looking good.
I remember very little about hair and know even less about hairbrushes, but I think boar bristles are supposed to redistribute the oils in a more effective way, or something. But I can say, both as a companion and an observer, that it does seem to work!

 

[berni109]

I see you think you have found a solution with a usb device.
You need to try it at home and then time how long it takes to recharge from a mains charger.
That way you will know how long you will have to drive for to recharge on the road.
If you have already done this then apologies for my intervention.

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[autorouter]

a hairdryer and hair tongs which are battery operated, and charger with USB port , which my van has, so able to charge whilst driving!!!

Why while driving? Is that because the USB sockets only work while the engine is running? It's fairly easy to fit 12V sockets and USB sockets that work from the leisure battery, and are on all the time, not just when the engine is running.

You can fit standard 12V cigar-lighter type sockets, and plug in a USB adaptor available in places like Halfords or online. Or you can fit actual USB sockets, powered straight from the leisure battery. I suggest a mixture, some 12V, some USB.

 

[Palough]

Sorry but I have to disagree with several of your statements.
You say that lead acids should not be drained below 20% regularly.
They should not be drained below 50% unless you want to damage them or shorten their life.
You state that LifePo4 with a BMS means that lithium specific chargers are not relevant.
If you want to get the best out of your expensive lithium battery then a lithium specific charger is needed.
A charge source that doesn't have a lithium setting will never get the best out of a lithium battery.
Also the BMS should be the last line of defense not the only line of defense.
Finally you say that if you push an inverter to its upper limit it will not last long but then say that the 2,000 watt continuous rating is what it will happily run at continuously without getting stressed.
Some incorrect and confusing advice there I'm afraid.

What I said, is good LiPo batteries have a built in Battery Management System.

That does away with all the smoke and mirrors that the snake oil salesmen will blow up your rear end to sell specific lithium battery charges that aren't really necessary.

They were absolutely essential before the advent of integrated BMS in Lithium batteries.

To that I can attest having killed my golf cart battery prematurely using a standard battery on a lithium battery without an integrated BMS.

Now 5 years on (and using the same charger that killed the previous lithium battery without an integrated BMS), everything is sweet

But for those that want, "belt and braces", spending a quid on a specialised lithium battery charger is peace of mind, and a personal choice.

But when the specialised lithium battery malfunctions, what do you think is going to protect the lithium battery?

The integrated battery BMS

 

[headlight]

What I said, is good LiPo batteries have a built in Battery Management System.

That does away with all the smoke and mirrors that the snake oil salesmen will blow up your rear end to sell specific lithium battery charges that aren't really necessary.

They were absolutely essential before the advent of integrated BMS in Lithium batteries.

To that I can attest having killed my golf cart battery prematurely using a standard battery on a lithium battery without an integrated BMS.

Now 5 years on (and using the same charger that killed the previous lithium battery without an integrated BMS), everything is sweet

But for those that want, "belt and braces", spending a quid on a specialised lithium battery charger is peace of mind, and a personal choice.

But when the specialised lithium battery malfunctions, what do you think is going to protect the lithium battery?

The integrated battery BMS

I'm sorry but I disagree.
The BMS is there to protect the battery but why would you deliberately use the wrong type of charger then rely on the BMS to protect that battery from incorrect charging ?
You do you what you want but a standard lead acid charger won't charge a LifePo4 to 100% SOC.
If the battery doesn't get to 100% SOC it won't balance the cells and it won't reset the BMS and Shunt to 100%.
You won't get the best out of a LifePo4 that way.
Also I can't take battery charging advice seriously coming from someone who thinks that it is OK to take lead acid batteries down to 20% SOC occasionally .

 

[Cliffyboy16]

Hi and a Merry Christmas.
Having decided to go off Grid for 2 weeks starting onteh 27th Decmber, for the very first time, since buying Renee, in August.
I've asked about the water tank, where to fill it, etc. for showers, and emptying all your wastes, etc., so now I know about this.

What I didn't ask was, as a woman, I need my hairdryer and hot brush each morning. Would the 1000-volt invertor that has been installed take on the task of doing my hair or not?


I don't want to try, and then find I have completely FUSED or worse FRAZZLED the fuse board, Can any of you merry men or women out there, answer this question please?.

Then I am good to go on my first Off-grid expectation around the Penines, and the Lake Windermere! Hopefully with more confidence as the days are being ticked off. Frightened, but if we don't face our FEARS, then we will never be able to enjoy our OAP Retirement
Thank you so much

sweet Caroline
Ok from a woman with long hair that sometimes like to blow dry it I will very often leave it to dry overnight but I have the type of hair that behaves - some friends hair defo wouldn’t but then again they won’t camp either but envious of the places I have been to

After much debate and following some threads here. I treated myself to Costco Offer on Eco-Deltaflow 2 power pack £499 rather than upgrade to lithium as I am not a heavy user but would like to boost battery power etc. I have a 5year old 100 gel battery and 100 watt solar very rarely on ECU. I have a fold up 100watt solar ( not used in this van as keeping lights/pump in garden happy) so I will get a lighter fold up one so I can put on the roof through the skylight rather than a permanent setup for the power pack .

I attach some pics of my recent power usage for a 1200 watt hairdryer for 10 mins and boiled a 2 cup electric kettle 563 watt for an example . I have gas tongs over 20 years old! I do believe the usb powered tongs ones are hot but not hairdryer ( I have tried the cigar lighter ones too - useless)

As part of my experiment it is currently using 70 watt heating my bed .

I am not electrical expert just a long term motorhomer who likes creature comforts but no air fryer/coffee makers etc cold fridge runs on Spanish gas €13 euros for my cokes. I am looking at a toaster as I like toast and warm bread currently have no oven/ grill in this van which I do miss.

I have a 6m van which I use everyday as it’s my only vehicle and is quite handy for cleaning a mucky dog or 2 as I have an outdoor shower and/ a portable 12v one which I put together for frosty times
Hope this is of use to you from a non technical point of view
Shirley

 

[Cliffyboy16]

sweet Caroline
Ok from a woman with long hair that sometimes like to blow dry it I will very often leave it to dry overnight but I have the type of hair that behaves - some friends hair defo wouldn’t but then again they won’t camp either but envious of the places I have been to

After much debate and following some threads here. I treated myself to Costco Offer on Eco-Deltaflow 2 power pack £499 rather than upgrade to lithium as I am not a heavy user but would like to boost battery power etc. I have a 5year old 100 gel battery and 100 watt solar very rarely on ECU. I have a fold up 100watt solar ( not used in this van as keeping lights/pump in garden happy) so I will get a lighter fold up one so I can put on the roof through the skylight rather than a permanent setup for the power pack .

I attach some pics of my recent power usage for a 1200 watt hairdryer for 10 mins and boiled a 2 cup electric kettle 563 watt for an example . I have gas tongs over 20 years old! I do believe the usb powered tongs ones are hot but not hairdryer ( I have tried the cigar lighter ones too - useless)

As part of my experiment it is currently using 70 watt heating my bed .

I am not electrical expert just a long term motorhomer who likes creature comforts but no air fryer/coffee makers etc cold fridge runs on Spanish gas €13 euros for my cokes. I am looking at a toaster as I like toast and warm bread currently have no oven/ grill in this van which I do miss.

I have a 6m van which I use everyday as it’s my only vehicle and is quite handy for cleaning a mucky dog or 2 as I have an outdoor shower and/ a portable 12v one which I put together for frosty times
Hope this is of use to you from a non technical point of view
Shirley



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I se a 300 watt blender which I have used with an inverter on my previous van ok.
Mucky dogs for prosperity

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[Palough]

I'm sorry but I disagree.
The BMS is there to protect the battery but why would you deliberately use the wrong type of charger then rely on the BMS to protect that battery from incorrect charging ?
You do you what you want but a standard lead acid charger won't charge a LifePo4 to 100% SOC.
If the battery doesn't get to 100% SOC it won't balance the cells and it won't reset the BMS and Shunt to 100%.
You won't get the best out of a LifePo4 that way.
Also I can't take battery charging advice seriously coming from someone who thinks that it is OK to take lead acid batteries down to 20% SOC occasionally .

Sorry to disagree, but my LiPo batteries charge to 100%, no problem, controlled by the batteries integrated BMS.

And as a comment, all MH's have an inbuilt BMS, in engineering parlance, the equivalent of a Building Management System we install in airports, hospitals, hotels, casinos, etc, etc that manages the electrical distribution and management of the electrical system.

And that includes managing the electrical current supplied to the storage batteries, be it lead acid, or LiPo.

So, there is a MH BMS (building management system) monitoring and distributing electrical current to all manner of electrical and electronics, then an integrated BMS in the LiPo battery

And some feel the need for an additional specialised charger (BMS) to triplicate the function of both the Building Management Services and the BMS integrated into LiPo battery.

Historically lead acid batteries were the norm in 19th and 20th century's charged by a simple battery charger.

Then in the 1960's, along came NiCad batteries that required better battery management and special adaptive chargers to ensure charging to 100%, and to prevent overcharging (killing the battery through thermal effects) dependant on battery type, and charger used.

Next in line came LiFe batteries which required specialised battery charging management to prevent over charging, over heating and thermal runaway with resulting fire.

Battery management was essential and developed to cater for the new LiFe batteries and more recently LiPo batteries which also required specialised battery management early in their development life.

In fact, LiPo batteries are still readily available without an integrated BMS, and these batteries require a specialised battery management system

But with all things, progress saw the introduction of integrated BMS systems inside the lithium batteries that manage everything necessary for the health of the battery, including but not limited to, cell balancing, temperature protection to prevent thermal runaway resulting in fire or explosions, and charging irrespective of whether a fancy specialised charger is used.

As I have already mentioned, my LiPo batteries charge to 100% without the additional cost of ab additional battery charging and management system.

Those who want to triple-up with BMS systems, feel free to do so, the manufacturers and salesmen love you

 

[headlight]

Sorry to disagree, but my LiPo batteries charge to 100%, no problem, controlled by the batteries integrated BMS.

And as a comment, all MH's have an inbuilt BMS, in engineering parlance, the equivalent of a Building Management System we install in airports, hospitals, hotels, casinos, etc, etc that manages the electrical distribution and management of the electrical system.

And that includes managing the electrical current supplied to the storage batteries, be it lead acid, or LiPo.

So, there is a MH BMS (building management system) monitoring and distributing electrical current to all manner of electrical and electronics, then an integrated BMS in the LiPo battery

And some feel the need for an additional specialised charger (BMS) to triplicate the function of both the Building Management Services and the BMS integrated into LiPo battery.

Historically lead acid batteries were the norm in 19th and 20th century's charged by a simple battery charger.

Then in the 1960's, along came NiCad batteries that required better battery management and special adaptive chargers to ensure charging to 100%, and to prevent overcharging (killing the battery through thermal effects) dependant on battery type, and charger used.

Next in line came LiFe batteries which required specialised battery charging management to prevent over charging, over heating and thermal runaway with resulting fire.

Battery management was essential and developed to cater for the new LiFe batteries and more recently LiPo batteries which also required specialised battery management early in their development life.

In fact, LiPo batteries are still readily available without an integrated BMS, and these batteries require a specialised battery management system

But with all things, progress saw the introduction of integrated BMS systems inside the lithium batteries that manage everything necessary for the health of the battery, including but not limited to, cell balancing, temperature protection to prevent thermal runaway resulting in fire or explosions, and charging irrespective of whether a fancy specialised charger is used.

As I have already mentioned, my LiPo batteries charge to 100% without the additional cost of ab additional battery charging and management system.

Those who want to triple-up with BMS systems, feel free to do so, the manufacturers and salesmen love you

Fair enough I give in

 

[Palough]

Fair enough I give in

Just a few of more points before I exit this discussion.

Point 1. Lithium batteries, LiFe or LiPo are a safety hazard, fire and explosion risk without an integrated BMS.

We probably all remember the early development days of lithium batteries and the Boeing Dreamliner lithium fires, all contained within a steel fireproof box, nevertheless, a worrying event if one is a passenger.

The development of integrated lithium battery BMS systems was driven largely by the Aero and Automotive industries as aeroplanes falling out of the sky and vehicles constantly catching fire or exploding in the main street is not good for business.

Point 2. We've all seen reports and / or videos of how ferocious a lithium battery fire is when mopeds, scooters and even EV cars have caught fire while charging burning down houses.

These fires mostly occur with lithium batteries being charged with the correct factory charger, but on a "cheapie" battery without an integrated battery BMS system to shut them down when the internal environmental conditions get out of control.

As we sleep in our MH plugged into site power, the thing that prevents us ending up as toast during the night, is the lithium batteries integrated BMS system.

Point 3. Trying to put out a lithium battery fire is like Mission Impossible, it is a chemical fire, not a normal combustion fire.

Once one has doused the lithium battery fire and exhausted the fire extinguisher, the fire will instantly restart and burn ferociously until the chemical reaction is exhausted.

Standing next to a lithium battery fire trying to extinguish it is dicing with death due to the risk of explosion and extremely deadly toxic fumes.

Many fire authorities now have a policy of containment, stand their distance and ensuring the surroundings are kept safe while allowing the lithium fire to run it's course.

Notwithstanding catastrophic failure of the integrated BMS system, it is the lifesaver in the equation.

Point 4. My MH has a steel compartment outside the habitation quarters that houses the batteries, a plus and a minus because the steel box in itself presents an electrical short circuit liability without proper attention to insulating the battery terminal caps from hitting to top of the steel box on rough roads in the event that the floor restraints work loose over time.

But, for those that move their lithium batteries to under the bench seats inside the habitation quarters, and not contained in a steel fire proof box, I consider an unacceptable risk to myself and loved ones.

A lithium fire can start very quickly in the dead of night and block the exit passage, or quickly fill the MH with overpowering toxic fumes.

Fire authorities wear full Hazard suits when attending a lithium fire, as in the early days, many firemen have had to permanently retire after breathing the toxic fumes from a lithium fire.

As one who worked in the Offshore Oil & to Gas industry for many years, I'm all for installing back-up systems and redundancy for protection.

However, like the adage in Safety Management, statistically, the further you get away from your last accident, the closer you get to the next

Similarly, some will argue that with an already integrated BMS battery system, by adding another external one, you have now doubled the chance of a BMS failure, either in the external one, or the integrated BMS.

There is also the argument, (that I tend to dismiss), that catastrophic failure of the external BMS system may stress the batteries integrated BMS system, however, that's precisely what it's there to do, but is it prudent to put it to the test

Final Point. For older MH's, (5 or more years old), the comments about installing an external sophisticated BMS system are spot on, as the MH's BMS (Building Management System) will never have been designed with LiPo batteries in mind, although it may still provide a steady reliable power source to the batteries, but I'd rather err on the side of caution and install an up to date monitoring and control system.

I hope this discussion has not appeared to be combative, but provided an alternative informed view that others may discuss and reach their own conclusions.

It's all about free speech and the exchange of ideas and information on a great forum

Over and out

 

[autorouter]

Point 3. Trying to put out a lithium battery fire is like Mission Impossible, it is a chemical fire, not a normal combustion fire.

Once one has doused the lithium battery fire and exhausted the fire extinguisher, the fire will instantly restart and burn ferociously until the chemical reaction is exhausted.

All types of lithium batteries are not the same in this respect. Most types contain chemicals that give off oxygen gas when overheated. That means that a fire is self-starting, self-sustaining, and not extinguishable by normal means and strategies. They go into 'thermal runaway' mode when damaged or incorrectly charged.

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePO4) are a type of battery that do not give off oxygen gas when overheated. Because of that they are considered safe for use in motorhomes and domestic solar battery storage systems. They are slightly less efficient in terms of energy density per kilogram or per cubic metre than other types of lithium battery, but are very much safer.

Incredibly, when you say you use LiPo batteries it's not a typo, you really do mean the Lithium Polymer type, which is subject to thermal runaway and inextinguishable fires with toxic smoke and fumes. You do what you want to do of course, but advocating this to uninformed people on a public forum is in my view totally irresponsible.

 

[Palough]

If you bothered to read the post from the beginning you'd have realised that it was a discussion about Lithium batteries integrated BMS, and was not advocating LiPo batteries, Li Fe or Li FePo (Lithium Phosphate) batteries, definitely NOT Lithium Polymer batteries as fitted to mobile phones!!

My choice was for LiPo, (or LiPo4 as often called), not advocating them.

As for your comment on Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, there is a substantial body of opinion that disagrees with your statement, you can do your own research.

But snake oil salesmen are lurking everywhere to sway us away from our choices to what they make money from with such statements as, "discharging a lead acid battery to 20% can cause sulphate deposits and can shorten it's lifespan"

This is a typical salesman's, "get out of jail pass", because if he stated "categorically or will" instead of "can, could or may", he could be hauled up for prosecution for misleading advertising, or by government consumer protection departments.

You need to read advertising literature very carefully.

I, for one, don't have an opinion on LiFePo batteries except that in my humble view, when I was getting 5 years out of AGM batteries, I now seriously question my decision to go the expensive lithium route, because, there is now evidence that if a lithium battery if discharged to between 90-95% capacity on a regular basis, (many advertising flysheets claim a lithium battery can be depleted to 10% or even less!), it is not going to last as long as an AGM Battery.

No doubt in the next 5 years I'll find out