I won't use LiFePO4 Batteries

[Wissel]

The other issue is charging when it's below freezing. But I'm not sure how much of an issue this is. It's rare that a van will get down to freezing inside when you still intend to use it. As long as your BMS protects it, it shouldn't be damaged.

With a good LiFePO4, it isn't really an issue. Although charging should be stopped at freezing, discharging is usually fine at up to -20. If it is below freezing then use a bit of power and the battery should heat up enough to start charging again.

Although there are loads of ways around this. Personally, I have my heating ducting going through the same area my battery is. If it's cold, heating is on, battery is warm.

Another option is lithiums are now available that can be charged at -30. They are more money though.

 

[funflair]

It charged back up to 13.6 and if I’ve read things right this is fully charged?
We’ve only used the van for two weekends and used EH so it hadn’t really been an issue but we’re planning on going to France this summer for a few weeks and will most likely need to use the leisure battery at times .

Indeed it is but it may not have capacity anymore, capacity is useable amp hours or ah and can only be measured by applying a known load say 10 amps and seeing how long the battery last before hitting around 12volts, 10 amps for 8 hours would be 80 ah.

 

[bigtwin]

It charged back up to 13.6 and if I’ve read things right this is fully charged?
We’ve only used the van for two weekends and used EH so it hadn’t really been an issue but we’re planning on going to France this summer for a few weeks and will most likely need to use the leisure battery at times .

Any reading above 12.8 V is associated with the charge source (the charge loiters on the surface of the plates for some time after the charge source has been disconnected) and is not a good indicator of charge status.

To determine if a battery is fully charged you need to monitor the charge current and when this has fallen to a couple of percentage points of the battery capacity (e.g. on a 110Ah battery, when the charge current has fallen to about 2A).

Even then, this won’t tell you if the battery is healthy. For that you need to do a controlled discharge test (NOT with a starter battery tester). However, in lieu of this, you could just use the battery and see how it performs. Providing that you don’t have inverter loads, a 110Ah battery ought to last you 3 - 4 days off-grid, longer with a solar charge.

These bloomin’ lead acid batteries are so fickle aren’t they, much more trouble than LiFePo4.

Ian

 

[DavidCh]

My experience with batteries that have been abused in this way is that they appear to charge, simply don't get anywhere near their rated amp hours. I would not rely on it for a long trip where you have days not on an electric hook-up as you will end up replacing it at the least opportune moment. If you are simply going from camp site to camp site with electric it will probably be OK

 

[jongood]

Indeed it is but it may not have capacity anymore, capacity is useable amp hours or ah and can only be measured by applying a known load say 10 amps and seeing how long the battery last before hitting around 12volts, 10 amps for 8 hours would be 80 ah.

just to add that this needs to be done while the battery isn't gaining a charge.

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[Two on Tour]

The other issue is charging when it's below freezing. But I'm not sure how much of an issue this is. It's rare that a van will get down to freezing inside when you still intend to use it. As long as your BMS protects it, it shouldn't be damaged.

As you say, a van that's being used in most cases a lithium battery will not get down to freezing and for the times that we are not using our van in freezing conditions our lithium automatically keeps itself warm with its heat mat.

 

[busbuddy]

Not everyone can afford such a set up, I understand that, not everyone needs such a set up, I understand that, so not everyone wants such a set up, probably for one of previous reasons, but I don’t understand when people try to berate such set ups

This
And I think it could be a relevant statement about anything in the motorhome world from lithium to mattress toppers

in my van I have 320w of solar, 1500w inverter and 2x85a 6 year old LA batteries (cant fit bigger LA in the factory space) but I've never ran out of power using electric kettle, toaster, etc even in winter.
My race car has a lithium battery that weighs less than 4kgs and cost $4000 a decade ago
Purely my personal choice

 

[peterc10]

My take on all of this is simple and can be summarised by first pointing out that it is my money and I can spend it how I want. And so I am not impressed by people who look down their noses at me to tell me that I shouldn't spend it on something, just because they don't want to, or can't afford to.

We bought our motorhome new 7 years ago and have long since come to the conclusion that it is a "keeper" and we are not going to change it. It had 2 x 85Ahr AGM batteries and 250W of solar fitted by the dealer and a 2000W inverter fitted by me for my wife's hairdryer. These had served us well (despite Lenny HB telling me they were doomed ), but I was very careful to nurse them to make sure I didn't over abuse them. And we found ourselves not using campsites very much both in the UK, where we used rallies, THS's and Britstops, and in Europe where we used Aires, stellplatz and camperstops more.

However, I was aware that I was on borrowed time with the AGMs and I decided last spring to swop them out for 2 x 120Ah Lithiums. That over doubled my available battery capacity and halved the weight. I fitted them myself because of the great advice from people on this forum and at the same time I upgraded the charging regimes, added a B2B and improved the wiring. I have always enjoyed doing projects, and this was no exception. Now I have a better system that I do not need to nurse anymore.

 

[Guigsy]

just to add that this needs to be done while the battery isn't gaining a charge.

The trigger for me ordering a lithium battery is the lead acid we've got is kaput. The van is three years old. The first owner had it a year, then it sat at the dealership for a few months. Somewhere in that period, the battery was severely flattened and it's capacity was much reduced before we got it.

Which means it's become increasingly easy to run it down too far, which compounds the problem and makes it even worse. I now get about 15Ah before it's below 12v.

 

[Wh05apk]

We are looking to upgrade at some point but just wondered if lithium are safe to be charged to 100% and left? I only ask as with lithiums in cars, it is generally advisable not to regularly charge above 85% particularly if leaving for a while, as in over winter?

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[Lenny HB]

We are looking to upgrade at some point but just wondered if lithium are safe to be charged to 100% and left? I only ask as with lithiums in cars, it is generally advisable not to regularly charge above 85% particularly if leaving for a while, as in over winter?

E-car batteries are not LiFeP04 (except latest Tesla's), in daily use it is OK to charge them to 100% as most chargers do but when storing best to keep them at 80%.

 

[Guigsy]

We are looking to upgrade at some point but just wondered if lithium are safe to be charged to 100% and left? I only ask as with lithiums in cars, it is generally advisable not to regularly charge above 85% particularly if leaving for a while, as in over winter?

Cars mostly use Lithium Ion. They have the longest life if kept between roughly 20-80%.

Batteries for vans are Lithium Iron Phosphate. It's not quite as light, but it's safer. And it's also happier to take cycles from roughly 10-95%. And even to full does little extra damage.

 

[jongood]

this is us cooking onion bahji's off grid

 

[Wh05apk]

E-car batteries are not LiFeP04 (except latest Tesla's), in daily use it is OK to charge them to 100% as most chargers do but when storing best to keep them at 80%.

Thank you, my Tesla is lithium ion phosphate (lfp) and can be charged to 100% but most car batteries are normally recommended to be charged to no more than 85% unless you need the full capacity soon.

 

[Steve and Denise]

this is us cooking onion bahji's off gridView attachment 716298

so now we have to buy a special pan to cook on battery power

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[bigtwin]

We are looking to upgrade at some point but just wondered if lithium are safe to be charged to 100% and left?

Perfectly safe. However, if being left for a reasonable period of time they will not thank you for this. They prefer to be ‘stored’ at a charge level below 80% with 50 - 60% being the usual recommendation.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

so now we have to buy a special pan to cook on battery power

Dam all our saucepans in the van are SS.

 

[funflair]

Dam all our saucepans in the van are SS.

Just a bit of ferrous in the base is enough as long as it holds a magnet.

 

[IRHP]

The point you are missing is the difference in the safe level of depth of discharge (DOD) and available capacity. Typical safe DOD is 50% for LA, 60% for GEL and 95% for Lithium.

You missed 80% for lead carbon

 

[Ditcha]

My lithium is in my will to be left to the next generation

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[Two on Tour]

My lithium is in my will to be left to the next generation

Family heirloom ................ "Your grandad made this, so look after it"

 

[eddie]

With a good LiFePO4, it isn't really an issue. Although charging should be stopped at freezing, discharging is usually fine at up to -20. If it is below freezing then use a bit of power and the battery should heat up enough to start charging again.

Although there are loads of ways around this. Personally, I have my heating ducting going through the same area my battery is. If it's cold, heating is on, battery is warm.

Another option is lithiums are now available that can be charged at -30. They are more money though.

Anyone who thinks a lead acid battery is better than lithium at -20 degrees probably shouldn’t be allowed to used a pen, let alone post their opinion

 

[CazPaul]

If the lights and the television work that’ll do me.
X2 140AH gels 2 solar, why would you want extra power that you don’t need

Current set up 18 years old, hoping to get a good 20 years from these gels, 30 would be nice.

I remember 15 years ago all the rage” I’ve fitted a solar panel never run out of power again”

 

[Ditcha]

If the lights and the television work that’ll do me.
X2 140AH gels 2 solar, why would you want extra power that you don’t need

Current set up 18 years old, hoping to get a good 20 years from these gels, 30 would be nice.

I remember 15 years ago all the rage” I’ve fitted a solar panel never run out of power again”

Bet them halogen/ filament bulbs take some power or have you changed to led,s to save power ?

 

[CazPaul]

Bet them halogen/ filament bulbs take some power or have you changed to led,s to save power ?

Yes I have

But I would prefer candles on the wall

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[Carpmart]

Yes I have

But I would prefer candles on the wall

You joke but I had gas powered mantle lamps in my first caravan.

 

[Gaston aires]

When our van was new, the original owner who we still see from time to time had 2 x 120 ah Gel batteries fitted. (Gels used to be spoken about in the same way as lithium).
Another gel was subsequently fitted later so now 3 x 120 ah batteries. I guess weight could factor somewhat but plated at 4.8 tons, no problem for us.
The original fit was by vanbitz including B2B, inverter etc along with an Alden tracking solar panel. Everything still works like clockwork to this day with no major power loss ever encountered. When the gels ever die, I will investigate changing to lithium but ” if it ain’t broke don’t fix it“ rules apply here.
Phil

 

[Carpmart]

When our van was new, the original owner who we still see from time to time had 2 x 120 ah Gel batteries fitted. (Gels used to be spoken about in the same way as lithium).
Another gel was subsequently fitted later so now 3 x 120 ah batteries. I guess weight could factor somewhat but plated at 4.8 tons, no problem for us.
The original fit was by vanbitz including B2B, inverter etc along with an Alden tracking solar panel. Everything still works like clockwork to this day with no major power loss ever encountered. When the gels ever die, I will investigate changing to lithium but ” if it ain’t broke don’t fix it“ rules apply here.
Phil

Agree with you Phil, no need to change YET!

#philuphisgels

 

[Coolcats]

Next time anyone goes to Van Bitz, in the corner of the car park there is a big green bounded battery box, normally nearly full of newish lead acid batteries that have failed

You won’t see a single Lithium

When I was working I sold a lot of Lithium batteries and I genuinely cannot remember changing one under the five year warranty they come with. Upgraded and additional ones added, yes, like for like replacement under warranty no

I’ve just turned 62 so my memory may be fallible, so maybe one or two I didn’t know about or forgot but nowhere near the failure rate of conventional lead acid batteries

But it’s a free world.

Never mind MoHo these are my Pylontech lithium that power my home, so impressed by the performance I will be adding lithium to my MoHo whe. The AGM’s need changing
All I can say is Lithium are a game changer for energy storage

 

[Lenny HB]

You joke but I had gas powered mantle lamps in my first caravan.

I remember houses with them.

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