Fair use of electricity on sites

[Rosemary1]

We stayed at a site in Wales a few years ago where each pitch had a card meter. You were given a card when you arrived and you could put as much or as little on the card as you wished. When you left you handed the card back and you were refunded the balance. When talking with the site owner he had made the decision to fit meters because he was looking at having to charge £7 or £8 a night for hookup to just about cover his electricity bills (this was at least 5 years ago) Since fitting meters his annual bill had fallen by almost 50%, which showed how much was being wasted. When you can actually see, and have to directly pay for, how much electricity you are using it's surprising how many awning heaters etc get turned off. He told us that he regularly used to go round the site and used to see fan heaters and the alike running in awnings in the middle of the day when the owners were not even on site, or the cases where people were sitting in their awnings in the evening with the doors wide open to get some air in because they were too hot but with their heaters still running.
We stayed on site for 3 nights and used a grand total of just over £4 of electricity. Personally I would much prefer to pay for what I use and not subsidise those who have decided to attempt to heat the entire site, or to have sufficient lights around their pitch to give Blackpool a run for their money.

I would also prefer to pay for our own usage - not subsidising the wasteful people and being able to run heating or lighting to suit us and not worry about upsetting any site owner when hubby sets his Christmas lights up!

 

[eddie]

About time it was all metered then us who don't need it don't have to subside the idiots.

Massively inconvenient though!

 

[Lenny HB]

Massively inconvenient though!

Not for me rarely ever use EHU.

 

[Brains]

Metered EHU's are the way to go.
You can buy one here for £62 against £47 for an unmetered one here

As a site owner you could get back the additional £13 investment per pitch after a single cold weekend!

We stayed on a CL last year where you got a certain amount of electricity per night included in the pitch price.
Anything over was then charged at (20p ?) per unit thereafter.

We found using just fridge and lights we were under the maximum amount permitted.

(They had all the meters mounted on a board in the facilities building. So it was easy to monitor how much you were using and also how much each other pitch was using.)

 

[Emmit]

I suspect metering of EHU will increasingly become the norm. Done correctly for many of us rather than the flat rate that has to be based on expectations of heavy use, it could be cheaper.

In theory if you are reselling electric you can't make a profit, but I suspect you can still have a nominal charge for the maintenance. So if a site were to meter the actual use, and charge a one off hook up charge, it could be better value for the average camper?

It will not be taken up until such time as those two multi national financial organisations masquerading as clubs do it themselves.
They are quite happy to take money from people who have to accept paying for electricity, even though they don't want it.
"No sir, we only have pitches with EHU. We have no way of allowing you to utilise the pitch without you paying for EHU"

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ivory55]

Metered EHU's are the way to go.
You can buy one here for £62 against £47 for an unmetered one here

As a site owner you could get back the additional £13 investment per pitch after a single cold weekend!

We stayed on a CL last year where you got a certain amount of electricity per night included in the pitch price.
Anything over was then charged at (20p ?) per unit thereafter.

We found using just fridge and lights we were under the maximum amount permitted.

(They had all the meters mounted on a board in the facilities building. So it was easy to monitor how much you were using and also how much each other pitch was using.)

I wonder how much that just £62 adds up to when fitting and certification etc is added on

 

[Brains]

Massively inconvenient though!

eddievanbitz

No I don't think it would be. (Agreed with limited experience)
In fact I'm afraid it's the future, it's no longer a case of 'if' but 'when' you will need to install metered EHU points.

(As we have seen, the micro-meters can be in the facilities block, which means everyone can monitor their own use every time they go there)

Gone are the days when a caravan or a motorhome had a few lights and that was it, now they have hot plates, electric kettles, TV's, computers and arctic level heating systems, all of which use a lot of electricity.

You will soon have people arriving with Electric cars who will also need to plug in. If you have not seen this yet, you probably will this year.

Simplest method is you charge for the pitch with a fixed amount of electricity (Enough for fridge and lights) and then anything over, you charge per unit.

 

[Brains]

I wonder how much that just £62 adds up to when fitting and certification etc is added on

The fitting cost would be the same, and I don't think you would need a certificate, as it's not the main meter, it is in effect a landlords meter.
(A landlord can set the price for electricity at the amount the supplier charges him, plus supply costs)

 

[eddie]

Metered EHU's are the way to go.
You can buy one here for £62 against £47 for an unmetered one here

As a site owner you could get back the additional £13 investment per pitch after a single cold weekend!

We stayed on a CL last year where you got a certain amount of electricity per night included in the pitch price.
Anything over was then charged at (20p ?) per unit thereafter.

We found using just fridge and lights we were under the maximum amount permitted.

(They had all the meters mounted on a board in the facilities building. So it was easy to monitor how much you were using and also how much each other pitch was using.)

Who reads them? What happens when you want to leave early and you have to wait until the Campsite office opens to read the meters? what happens when you arrive after hours and the meter needs reading (agreeing on) before you start using electric hook up?

You could do what we did years ago and have coin operated hook ups, the only consolation we had when the scumbag customers that stole the meters, stole them, was that a high percentage of their ill gotten gains would be the supermarket trolley tokens and foreign coins that the previous scumbag customers had used in the meter to steal their electricity

Oh and the arguments you had to deal with, when normal decent customers returned to find out that the scumbag customers parked on the pitch beside them had "unplugged" their hook ups while out and plugged in "As you weren't using it"

Its never as easy as people think!

 

[eddie]

eddievanbitz

No I don't think it would be. (Agreed with limited experience)
In fact I'm afraid it's the future, it's no longer a case of 'if' but 'when' you will need to install metered EHU points.

Nope

(As we have seen, the micro-meters can be in the facilities block, which means everyone can monitor their own use every time they go there)

Sounds great, knock the site down, rip up all the existing infrastructure to re-wire the site and build this customer accessed control centre

Gone are the days when a caravan or a motorhome had a few lights and that was it, now they have hot plates, electric kettles, TV's, computers and arctic level heating systems, all of which use a lot of electricity.

People do forget that everyone is running their campers on extension leads! It is finite. If we do anything we will fit cut off switches that automatically disconnect if too much is used

You will soon have people arriving with Electric cars who will also need to plug in. If you have not seen this yet, you probably will this year.

We don't want them, busy enough so won't be considering that. Next they be demanding vegan toilets and showers and the wardens not using car tyres on the fire pits!

Simplest method is you charge for the pitch with a fixed amount of electricity (Enough for fridge and lights) and then anything over, you charge per unit.

Exactly what we do now and kick off people who we think are taking the piss

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Do what the Italians do fit 3 amp breakers, that will stop them running their heaters, fine for battery charging & fridge.

 

[eddie]

People forget that we are not allowed by law to sell electricity at a profit, legislation aimed at landlords but affects campsites and marinas

£20 a night including electricity. £17 a night if you don't want electricity ergo Charge for electricity £3 If you don't use £3 of electricity we are making a profit on the sale.

All pitches include electricity (which ours do) "I don't want to use electricity and refuse to pay for it"

"Bye! NEXT!"

A bit flippant but, when we designed the site we decided that the majority of people that camped wanted hook up, and 99% of questions the wardens get asked about hook up is "You do have hook up don't you?"

So we loose the odd customer? Sel la vie

 

[Brains]

You will soon have people arriving with Electric cars who will also need to plug in. If you have not seen this yet, you probably will this year.

We don't want them, busy enough so won't be considering that. Next they be demanding vegan toilets and showers and the wardens not using car tyres on the fire pits!

I'm afraid Eddie, that the electric cars are already on their way !

I'd be very surprised if you don't see a few through your gate this season, and if not this season, then next season. For urban vehicles electricity will be the only option within a very few years.
The CMC magazine had an article on the best electric cars for towing a caravan last month.

Out of about 40 residential cars in my London street at least 4 are electric and as each month passes that number will slowly increase.


Thanks for the tip on getting rid of the set of old tyres I have, I'll bring them down for burning at your place (whilst filling the loo with wet wipes)

 

[GMLS]

My heating is gas and the van is completely run on 12v ,i dont have a mains system so cant plug into EHU even if i wanted to.
I built my van for off grid, so i cant take the pee if on a site .
I just have long showers in the shower block.

Yes I think I've been in the shower next you you quite often

 

[Brains]

(As we have seen, the micro-meters can be in the facilities block, which means everyone can monitor their own use every time they go there)

eddievanbitz said:
Sounds great, knock the site down, rip up all the existing infrastructure to re-wire the site and build this customer accessed control centre

Nuking the planet from orbit may be a tad on the extreme side.

For around £60 per pitch you could swap the existing EHU socket for one with a micro meter.
The down side would be the need to then physically go to the pitch to look at the reading each time.
But in this day and age I wonder if there would be a wifi option ?

The other option would be the 3amp breakers as suggested above.

I think you will need to do something as the cost of electricity will double over the next 18 months and the "Fridge and lights only" brigade will not unreasonably object to subsidising the "heating the awning all night whilst charging the car" brigade.

(FYI: Supermarkets around here are currently charging between £7 and £12 to recharge a car)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[tonyidle]

Well I may have this all a bit wrong but at home our van is on ehu and set to frost stat ie 6deg
But as I pay for it I will get my monies worth

My Alde is set to 5 deg at home. It doesn't turn on very often.

 

[tonyidle]

A site I use takes a deposit for on/off cards. Your use of electricity is subtracted from the deposit which is returned when you hand in the cards (along with your barrier access card). One card is used to turn the supply on then removed. The other is used to turn it off, then removed. The cards identify you to the metering gizmo in the site office. It's pretty foolproof, no meter or cash at the hook-up, and if you believe someone might steal your power you can turn it off when offsite

 

[Ivory55]

I have said before, we look at something to see if it’s what wwe want, then look at the price. If it’s to expensive we don’t get it, we don’t start telling people what they should do to suit me. Its worked so far.

 

[eddie]

eddievanbitz said:
Sounds great, knock the site down, rip up all the existing infrastructure to re-wire the site and build this customer accessed control centre

Nuking the planet from orbit may be a tad on the extreme side.

For around £60 per pitch you could swap the existing EHU socket for one with a micro meter.
The down side would be the need to then physically go to the pitch to look at the reading each time.
But in this day and age I wonder if there would be a wifi option ?

The other option would be the 3amp breakers as suggested above.

I think you will need to do something as the cost of electricity will double over the next 18 months and the "Fridge and lights only" brigade will not unreasonably object to subsidising the "heating the awning all night whilst charging the car" brigade.

(FYI: Supermarkets around here are currently charging between £7 and £12 to recharge a car)

Hey guess what? We buy this crap to test it and keep abreast of what's what! Our tech towers that have photo electric cells, with dusk till dawn eco LED security lighting, water points and individual RCD, MCB protected hook up points costing circa £800 each are better

I am not interested in being an energy supplier so will not be installing charging points for cars when motorhomes are our target market

£60 a pitch? I assume we are throwing them down on the grass? or do they need mounting? does the £60 include the mounting, labour to dig the hole, wiring, testing and concrete?

£60 a pitch? Great value, I surprised that they don't need heavy armoured 3 core cable connecting them to our three phase distribution system to them to make them work(Just checked at the cable we used is currently circa £200 a 100m roll!)

Brains I know that your being helpful and my post is tongue in cheek but, unless you have a large site with 24 hour staff, meters are counter productive to the majority of people. With us, you can book on line, enter your details, pay, arrive, get checked by the APNR barrier, admitted, go to your pitch, plug in, use the facilities, get up the next morning and leave! Having to walk to reception to get a staff member, to walk back with you to check the meter, then back to the office to pay your £1.37 electric surcharge is a ball ache for everyone!

Long term, Smart meters, straight into reception, with a payment previously authorised and taken from a credit card could work, but then I'd be arguing in another thread about someone's Mum and Dad who are luddites and don't have a smart phone, or do email or use a credit card and how my wardens weren't very helpful as they asked "how the hell did you manage to get to our site then?"

 

[eddie]

A site I use takes a deposit for on/off cards. Your use of electricity is subtracted from the deposit which is returned when you hand in the cards (along with your barrier access card). One card is used to turn the supply on then removed. The other is used to turn it off, then removed. The cards identify you to the metering gizmo in the site office. It's pretty foolproof, no meter or cash at the hook-up, and if you believe someone might steal your power you can turn it off when offsite

Again though limited to office hours and a warden being available to deal with it at a convenient time

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pugsy]

Yes I think I've been in the shower next you you quite often

How would you know how long i have been in the shower,unless you were in your shower for the same amount of time ,or even longer.

 

[EzeeRider]

Meters are available which fit on existing din rails (if there is room) so very little installation cost, WiFI can be used to read some of these and there is even a verison that uses RFID for use with contactless pre charged cards and gives you back your unused credit.
ezee

 

[Coolcats]

eddievanbitz

No I don't think it would be. (Agreed with limited experience)
In fact I'm afraid it's the future, it's no longer a case of 'if' but 'when' you will need to install metered EHU points.

(As we have seen, the micro-meters can be in the facilities block, which means everyone can monitor their own use every time they go there)

Gone are the days when a caravan or a motorhome had a few lights and that was it, now they have hot plates, electric kettles, TV's, computers and arctic level heating systems, all of which use a lot of electricity.

You will soon have people arriving with Electric cars who will also need to plug in. If you have not seen this yet, you probably will this year.

Simplest method is you charge for the pitch with a fixed amount of electricity (Enough for fridge and lights) and then anything over, you charge per unit.

Hydrogen would negate the need for hook up points.

 

[Stoosal]

We were on a cl site. Arrived after paying for site on line with a prepaid £5 limit on electricity. At end of stay any electricity not used was either paid back to your account or could be donated to local charity. Thought it was good idea.
Only issue was you didn’t know how much electricity you had used. There wasn’t a meter to show you? We knew we weren’t going to use much but if you wanted to add more you just sent a text for more credit and paid online. Any left over was repaid at end of stay. Worked for us but understand could be a pain for wardens trying to administer.

 

[TinaLes]

The main reason we resigned our membership with The CMC was that despite them advising that "you could save on pitch fees by choosing a non electric pitch" having been refused non electric on two sites, electric pitches only was the only offer, being told "its built into the pitch fees, its all inclusive"
I checked the CMC website, there were only 11 main sites in the UK at that time offering non electric pitches.
We knew that some were taking the mick, as yes they did have fan heaters running in their awnings, one couple said it was to keep the dogs warm, while they went out to town, or a restaurant in the evening. They dont seem to grasp that the more they use/abuse the electric afforded to them included in the pitch fees, the more pitch fees will have to increase for everyone to cover their abuse.

Its great to have the option of EHU or not, but if its included whether you want/need it or not, then we probably wont stay there.
Like many we have invested in solar, B2B's plus LPG refillables so IMV there should ideally be more sites that can offer non electric pitches, but as said by others, its our choice to stay or not stay.
I dont need sites with shower blocks that we dont use, give us a rally field with black waste dump & water, and we are happy.
LES

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Minxy]

How would you know how long i have been in the shower,unless you were in your shower for the same amount of time ,or even longer.

You obviously didn't see the peep-hole GMLS 'voyeur' was using!

 

[eddie]

Meters are available which fit on existing din rails (if there is room) so very little installation cost, WiFI can be used to read some of these and there is even a verison that uses RFID for use with contactless pre charged cards and gives you back your unused credit.
ezee

But again, inconvenient after hours and early departures

And all that will happen is people will get pissy that they want it dealt with NOW so the solution will be to employ additional staff and charge more

 

[eddie]

More people want hook up than don't want hook up, simple fact.

Most are happy to have a price "including electric"

Its unlikely that "proper" sites are going to open and not offer hook up certainly not those open all year

It is very likely that more and more sites are going over to Glamping Pods, Yurts, Shepherds Hut and Wooden Cabin type camping and those that don't are being constantly lobbied to put statics on.

It is very likely that any future legislation will be more restrictive than less restrictive about where we can and we can't park overnight

 

[EzeeRider]

It cannot be too far away when you can use a credit or debit card Eddie. No site intervention required then.
ezee

 

[EzeeRider]

I don't mind statics they generally subsidise touring pitches at least that is the impression I get.
ezee

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}