What mark up do dealers make on MH's (1 Viewer)

[davidathomas42]

So ill be done with mine around mid April and started having a feel around what dealers would buy it for cash.

I know its the worst time. April/May will be start of the season and probably good timing to adjust prices north.

I paid £68,500 and have dropped another £5k+ in to the van in Victron and Lithium upgrades along with a few extra bits.
Comparable models for sale are only a few. But £65k £72k and one with delivery miles at £79k without the upgrades fitted this is.

3 Dealers have made offers of £47k. £50k & £54k!

The one at £47k tried telling me its only with £65k retail.... Ok so thats up to £18k mark up. Bearing in mind its a 21 plate with van varranty still and Bailey warranty for a few bits still. Last hab check done in Nov 23. Not much to warrant really so minimal risk.

Do they really expect that much mark up. Or is it just time of year not wanting stuff unless its silly cheap?

 

[The Wino]

I'm not sure if may people on here understand VAT. VAT is a consumption tax on the end-user. Dealers don't suffer VAT as such, they are merely collection agents for HMRC. The pay over the difference between their input and output VAT via quarterly tax returns (they collect more VAT from us than they pay out to their suppliers, hence the pay-out of the difference to HMRC). They only "suffer" from Corporation Tax . But if the OP's van + extras was say £72k, the cost was only £60k, with £12k going to HM Treasury. So £60k is prob your best starting number. Please correct me if wrong.

Not really as the buyers will compare what it costs to buy a new one compared to a second hand one it will also depend on the market at the time the value of anything is what it can be sold for

 

[Funkmachine]

Effectively smallish return on high risk.

This would also include servicing and spares sold so they arnt making a fortune.

Unless the employees are on massive wages

Yes that’s my point - if all and sundry were being ripped off they’d be making loads more. A sub 10% net return allows a business to continue to invest and make sure it’s still there in 2, 5, 10 years time. I traded our van recently for a 2020 plate Rapido with them because I didn’t want the worry & hassle of selling privately. You “pays your money and makes your choice”.

 

[The Wino]

Yes that’s my point - if all and sundry were being ripped off they’d be making loads more. A sub 10% net return allows a business to continue to invest and make sure it’s still there in 2, 5, 10 years time. I traded our van recently for a 2020 plate Rapido with them because I didn’t want the worry & hassle of selling privately. You “pays your money and makes your choice”.

It's no different to employing any other professionals to do something for you like selling your house yourself or using an agent or doing the decorating yourself or paying someone to do it. There's no legal requirement to use a dealer I think it's the usual story people think anyone else's business is a rip off.

 

[Swozer]

Not really as the buyers will compare what it costs to buy a new one compared to a second hand one it will also depend on the market at the time the value of anything is what it can be sold for

That may be so, but from dealer's perspective, the original value is £60k not £72k. The £12k is a tax hit on the end-user. There is no "need" for dealer to reimburse this., though obvs we would like it so.

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[newtonz]

I agree with Geoff's philosophy - it's your choice how to sell it.
All businesses exist to make a profit.
They have to pay VAT on the markup.
The government will take another 20% or so on their overall profits.
And if you buy Apple devices, you haven't much to grumble about - 100 billion dollars profit last year, so what's their markup ?

 

[The Wino]

That may be so, but from dealer's perspective, the original value is £60k not £72k. The £12k is a tax hit on the end-user. There is no "need" for dealer to reimburse this., though obvs we would like it so.

To use your view then are you suggesting that if motorhome prices drop substantially that the dealer bases what they offer based on it originally costing £60k rather than what they can sell it for because both sound pretty daft to me! Look at antiques roadshow you will see lots of items that were really cheap and are now worth a lot because that's what someone will pay for them. The same with anything .

 

[Swozer]

To use your view then are you suggesting that if motorhome prices drop substantially that the dealer bases what they offer based on it originally costing £60k rather than what they can sell it for because both sound pretty daft to me! Look at antiques roadshow you will see lots of items that were really cheap and are now worth a lot because that's what someone will pay for them. The same with anything .

My post was primarily aimed at clarifying taxation confusion, not the whole pricing scenario. What issue do you have with the VAT matter?

 

[The Wino]

My post was primarily aimed at clarifying taxation confusion, not the whole pricing scenario. What issue do you have with the VAT matter?

That the reasale value has nothing to do with what vat was originally paid. If things are in short supply new like cars after the pandemic secondhand prices soar in fact if there's enough shortage they can be worth more secondhand than new. On the other hand if disposable income reduces secondhand values can plumet. It's exactly the same with houses and anything else. What something is worth has a tenuous link to what you paid for it but it is a very tenuous link. Any dealer who bases an offer to trade on on the vat argument would lose my buisness straight away as they're spinning a yarn. When we recently sold through a dealer they were very honest and told me exactly what they were going to ask for on resale. Quite a few on here would have said that's too big a margin etc but to me it was honest and very straightforward we went with them and they delivered.

 

[Swozer]

That the reasale value has nothing to do with what vat was originally paid. If things are in short supply new like cars after the pandemic secondhand prices soar in fact if there's enough shortage they can be worth more secondhand than new. On the other hand if disposable income reduces secondhand values can plumet. It's exactly the same with houses and anything else. What something is worth has a tenuous link to what you paid for it but it is a very tenuous link. Any dealer who bases an offer to trade on on the vat argument would lose my buisness straight away as they're spinning a yarn. When we recently sold through a dealer they were very honest and told me exactly what they were going to ask for on resale. Quite a few on here would have said that's too big a margin etc but to me it was honest and very straightforward we went with them and they delivered.

I don't think I ever said that, but hey, let's beg to differ.

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[Chad]

So ill be done with mine around mid April and started having a feel around what dealers would buy it for cash.

I know its the worst time. April/May will be start of the season and probably good timing to adjust prices north.

I paid £68,500 and have dropped another £5k+ in to the van in Victron and Lithium upgrades along with a few extra bits.
Comparable models for sale are only a few. But £65k £72k and one with delivery miles at £79k without the upgrades fitted this is.

3 Dealers have made offers of £47k. £50k & £54k!

The one at £47k tried telling me its only with £65k retail.... Ok so thats up to £18k mark up. Bearing in mind its a 21 plate with van varranty still and Bailey warranty for a few bits still. Last hab check done in Nov 23. Not much to warrant really so minimal risk.

Do they really expect that much mark up. Or is it just time of year not wanting stuff unless its silly cheap?

 

[suavecarve]

I find it amusing when a buyer thinks they got an excellent price for their van on trade in for a new one. What they don't realise is that the dealer screwed them over on the purchase price of the new van. Then there's the bloke who got it new motorhome really cheap but doesn't realise the dealer screwed him on the trade in value of his present motorhome.

Whatever way you look at it the dealer always wins. Unless - you sale privately and sell well, and then pull off a good deal for cash at the dealer or wherever you go to buy.

It's all smoke and mirrors.

I Pxd a motorhome that was 6 years old and I got what I paid for it (40K)
I advertised on here for £41k and not even a tickle
They put it up for 47K and was sold quickly.
The new motor I purchased (2 years ago) was £55K
I just upped the insurance for this year to £65K (owing to the extras I put on)

And very interestingly I just checked current prices and Alan Kerr have a brand new one (manual) for 55K and searching another way it is 71K at alan kerr !!!! The 55 K is a bargain

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 for sale in Paignton, Devon | Alan Kerr Ltd

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 Motorhome for sale at Alan Kerr Ltd, Paignton, Devon

www.alankerrltd.co.uk

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 for sale in Paignton, Devon | Alan Kerr Ltd

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 Motorhome for sale at Alan Kerr Ltd, Paignton, Devon

www.alankerrltd.co.uk

 

[VXman]

I Pxd a motorhome that was 6 years old and I got what I paid for it (40K)
I advertised on here for £41k and not even a tickle
They put it up for 47K and was sold quickly.
The new motor I purchased (2 years ago) was £55K
I just upped the insurance for this year to £65K (owing to the extras I put on)

And very interestingly I just checked current prices and Alan Kerr have a brand new one (manual) for 55K and searching another way it is 71K at alan kerr !!!! The 55 K is a bargain

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 for sale in Paignton, Devon | Alan Kerr Ltd

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 Motorhome for sale at Alan Kerr Ltd, Paignton, Devon

www.alankerrltd.co.uk

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 for sale in Paignton, Devon | Alan Kerr Ltd

New ROLLER TEAM ZEFIRO 685 Motorhome for sale at Alan Kerr Ltd, Paignton, Devon

www.alankerrltd.co.uk

2 years ago was a good time to buy. - just post pandemic. Mine was 60K brand new just under 3 years ago. - bought during lockdown. Similar vans new are now 100K plus. Similar vans same age as mine are 75-80K.

 

[MichaelT]

I'm not sure if many people on here understand VAT. VAT is a consumption tax on the end-user. Dealers don't suffer VAT as such, they are merely collection agents for HMRC. The pay over the difference between their input and output VAT via quarterly tax returns (they collect more VAT from us than they pay out to their suppliers, hence the pay-out of the difference to HMRC). They only "suffer" from Corporation Tax . But if the OP's van + extras was say £72k, the cost was only £60k, with £12k going to HM Treasury. So £60k is prob your best starting number. Please correct me if wrong.

And they cannot claim 100% vat back but a lower amount, when I had a company it was 92% from memory, not sure if its the same for all businesses.

 

[cjsgasman]

So ill be done with mine around mid April and started having a feel around what dealers would buy it for cash.

I know its the worst time. April/May will be start of the season and probably good timing to adjust prices north.

I paid £68,500 and have dropped another £5k+ in to the van in Victron and Lithium upgrades along with a few extra bits.
Comparable models for sale are only a few. But £65k £72k and one with delivery miles at £79k without the upgrades fitted this is.

3 Dealers have made offers of £47k. £50k & £54k!

The one at £47k tried telling me its only with £65k retail.... Ok so thats up to £18k mark up. Bearing in mind its a 21 plate with van varranty still and Bailey warranty for a few bits still. Last hab check done in Nov 23. Not much to warrant really so minimal risk.

Do they really expect that much mark up. Or is it just time of year not wanting stuff unless its silly cheap?

We had the same really, we were in ours for about 15k upgrades, Victron, lithium, E&P, full leather upgrade.
Ours was a 20 plate, we were offered 42k by a dealer as they said the upgrades were worth nothing.
I can see they need to make profits etc as I am a business myself but they wanted to market it at 60k +
I went with the motorhome depot, you set your price with them, and typically get what you want to get from it and they make a couple of thousand for there work, advertising on all media platforms, auto trader etc. they can also arrange finance for the customer etc and the van doesn’t move until the money is in your account.

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[Dave and Jan]

Not sure you would get any upgrade money back and could upgrading actually reduce the price? For example if you’ve added bits and upped the plated weight to more than 3.5 tonnes does this reduce the buyer pool as it excludes anyone who doesn’t have a C1 licence.

 

[davidathomas42]

Not sure you would get any upgrade money back and could upgrading actually reduce the price? For example if you’ve added bits and upped the plated weight to more than 3.5 tonnes does this reduce the buyer pool as it excludes anyone who doesn’t have a C1 licence.

Its over 3500 anyway so thats not a concern on this Motorhome. Unless someone was looking to lower the weight.

 

[davidathomas42]

We had the same really, we were in ours for about 15k upgrades, Victron, lithium, E&P, full leather upgrade.
Ours was a 20 plate, we were offered 42k by a dealer as they said the upgrades were worth nothing.
I can see they need to make profits etc as I am a business myself but they wanted to market it at 60k +
I went with the motorhome depot, you set your price with them, and typically get what you want to get from it and they make a couple of thousand for there work, advertising on all media platforms, auto trader etc. they can also arrange finance for the customer etc and the van doesn’t move until the money is in your account.

Spoken to them recently as I looked at a couple of motorhomes with them when I was a buyer. They seemed an ok outfit. The finance thing certainly helps with a lot of buyers. PX I don't mind looking at. Its just extra leg work so like dealers id have to factor that in.

 

[Loftyjeff]

Motorhome Depot worked fine for us.

We told them what we wanted, they did all the advertising and vetting of buyers. Sold within a couple of weeks to the first couple who came to see it.

Full cash transfer on collection. I wanted £48k, I believe they had it advertised for £52K.

So did we very honest people quick sale instant payment

 

[Soycd]

"I'm happy, hope you're happy to"
I tend to work on the principle above, courtesy of Mr Bowie. A deal is a good one if both parties are happy with the result. When we sold our last van at the end of August (via eBay) the chap who bought it knew he wanted it, sent me a 5k deposit, travelled down from the north west, viewed the van and the money was done. He drove away delighted, and so was I. He called me a month later from Spain just to ask how to turn the power supply to the aircon on. Still delighted with the van.