MRO and Payload (1 Viewer)

[adamo23]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

 

[Mzracer]

Which 3500kg motorhomes exceed the weight limit?

Most

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I have been in touch with citizens advice to make a case to reject the van. I have only had the van 3 weeks. Number of faults. Bailey agreed a date of 23 May 24 for me to return the vehicle to their factory and leave it with them for 3 months. Effectively the whole of summer 24.

Your rights are MUCH stronger in the first 30 days. Do not delay in your rejection of it.

 

[stevewagner]

Most

How do you know? I agree many are very close but I don’t know any that are over weight before you start to load them. If it were true then manufactures would be sued. In addition insurance would be void. It’s a bit like speedos under reading - it doesn’t happen.

 

[stevewagner]

Truthfully, I suspect most of them !

Whilst 3500kg for a campervan can be made to work without a problem, and you can probably get a under 6m PVC motorhome under 3500kg.

I think any 'box on the back' or A class motorhome, whilst they may be labelled as 3500kg, in reality, once fully loaded are closer to 4,000kg.

My van is labelled at 4100kg.
I actually weigh around 3900 kg in full holiday mode (max 25kg of water, full fuel, 2 adults).

I met a German with an identical van and with a similar amount of kit to us, but his was labelled at 3500kg.
He was amazed that I knew my weight to within a few KG, he had no idea of the weight of his van.
He was appalled that he was close to half a ton overweight, and even if he took everything out, I doubt he would have had much in the way of payload.

So you don’t actually know you’re making an assumption. No manufacture is going to produce a motorhome overweight before you even get in it.

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[Tigger-Tim]

I'm amazed when manufacturers sell XL (6.3m) length PVCs with 4 seats/4 berths. They can only be suitable for naturists at 3500kg!

 

[Orion]

Which 3500kg motorhomes exceed the weight limit?

Our Adria Compact is ‘normally’ sold as a 3500kg van for obvious licence friendly reasons. It originally comes from Fiat with plated weight of 3650kg, which Adria then offer back as an F.O.C. option - big deal!

I put ours on the weighbridge fully loaded prior to the two of us departing for a two month tour and it came in at 3720kg - I wasn’t too concerned as I’d already fitted rear air suspension which will allow us to go the 4250kg anyway - but there isn’t a snowball’s hope in hell that 3500kg is a realistic figure for even two people with a decent amount of kit for extended travel.

To be fair to Adria though the CoC figures for the vehicle do include the additional extras such as the awning, extra leisure battery, etc. So they’re not trying to hide anything, it’s just that focus on the ‘magic’ 3500kg figure that screws the unwary.

 

[Mzracer]

How do you know? I agree many are very close but I don’t know any that are over weight before you start to load them. If it were true then manufactures would be sued. In addition insurance would be void. It’s a bit like speedos under reading - it doesn’t happen.

Sorry I thought you meant when in use and loaded, I just dont see how they are usable with all the bits and pieces that most folk carry.

 

[SalcombeRegis]

When I ordered my Adria Matrix I upgraded from the standard 3,500 to 4,400 out of the factory as I knew the pathetic payload would not accommodate my needs. I added a scooter rack, EP levelling, tv and air conditioning.

Before my first big trip I loaded it fully with fuel, water, scooter and all of the kit I was taking and took it over a weigh bridge. All I can say is thank god I went for the heavier build! I had about 175 spare but it did not include Mrs - not that I was concerned as she is a very light lady .

Just be wary though that each axle has its own limitations and the rear was on its limit.

If you have not been over a weigh-bridge fully loaded I would suggest having a go before your next trip as it does open your eyes. A few years ago now but I think it only cost about £15.

 

[Soycd]

Just for information. The Adria Twin 640 SLB we have on order has a max weight of 3500kg, the MIRO is 2910kg and includes the weight of the following.

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.

Our last van (Challenger Vany PVC 6m) had a MIRO that was actually better than the manufacturers stated MIRO. It could be that their MIRO calculations included something else. I weighed it with all of the above (plus awning and Dometic aircon unit) so was pleasantly surprised when it cam in under the stated MIRO.

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[Lenny HB]

Just the problem with side wall is more than enough to reject the van.
I wouldn't trust a repair with a fault like that as do to the job properly the side wall would have to be removed and I doubt if they would do that.

As for Payload/MIRO as you found out there is a 5 % tolerance which most converters make use of to give an artifical higher payload.

You also have to remember MIRO is stated on a basic van but no one ever buys a basic van. So all factory, dealer & self fitted extras comes off the payload. My van has about 250kg of extras but I have a sensible payload of 1350kg.

Also on their allowances they allow for 1 x 11kg aluminium gas bottle most people carry 2 x 11 kg or 2 x 13kg steel bottles.

Most people fit a 2nd battery (I fitted 2 extra batteries) a battery is approx 28 kg, an awning 40-50kg.
I would never travel without our 160 Lt water tank full.

You really need 700kg fot two people and over 1000kg for four.

 

[Chris Summers]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

We upgraded from 3.5T to 4T to save worrying

 

[TonyEmm]

So you don’t actually know you’re making an assumption. No manufacture is going to produce a motorhome overweight before you even get in it.

My first Hymer was overweight, (Fiat base) unladen! This was many years ago and there was little I could do about it. I guess I should have suspected an issue as it had no GTW and therefore, no towing limit.

With drum brakes all round, brake fade was a massive issue and I chose to get rid before a catastrophe!

I part-ex’d for another Hymer (Merc based) from the same dealer but needed my C1licence for that… Different animal altogether!

 

[Purrfecttune]

When I ordered my Adria Matrix I upgraded from the standard 3,500 to 4,400 out of the factory as I knew the pathetic payload would not accommodate my needs. I added a scooter rack, EP levelling, tv and air conditioning.

Before my first big trip I loaded it fully with fuel, water, scooter and all of the kit I was taking and took it over a weigh bridge. All I can say is thank god I went for the heavier build! I had about 175 spare but it did not include Mrs - not that I was concerned as she is a very light lady .

Just be wary though that each axle has its own limitations and the rear was on its limit.

If you have not been over a weigh-bridge fully loaded I would suggest having a go before your next trip as it does open your eyes. A few years ago now but I think it only cost about £15.

Providing you don’t want an official ticket, the weigh bridge in Canterbury do it for free and give you the figures verbally.

 

[Ray-Vic]

Providing you don’t want an official ticket, the weigh bridge in Canterbury do it for free and give you the figures verbally.

Same with H. Ripley at Ashford. We weighed in Norfolk and it was £25 with a printed receipt (no option for verbal).

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[Lenny HB]

My first Hymer was overweight, (Fiat base) unladen! This was many years ago and there was little I could do about it

Interestingly Hymer no days are one of the few that quote accurate weights, we have had 3 Hymers a 2008, 2014 & 2017 all have been within a few kilos.

 

[Purrfecttune]

Same with H. Ripley at Ashford. We weighed in Norfolk and it was £25 with a printed receipt (no option for verbal).

Whoops - brain fog at my age! I meant Ashford not Canterbury!

 

[adamo23]

So you don’t actually know you’re making an assumption. No manufacture is going to produce a motorhome overweight before you even get in it.

I am not saying they are producing a motor home over weight. They are likely producing it within the specified weight, but this weight could be in the higher end of the quoted tolerance of 5%. This means that the quoted payload of my van could legitimately be 181 kg not the 340 kg quoted. My experience at weigh station bears this out.

 

[adamo23]

Just for information. The Adria Twin 640 SLB we have on order has a max weight of 3500kg, the MIRO is 2910kg and includes the weight of the following.

• Mass of unladen vehicle including tyre mobility system and onboard tool set.
• Driver’s weight allowance of 75kg.
• Fuel tank filled up to 90%.
• 16kg allowance for gas cylinders.
• 20% full fresh water tank and water system.
• 100% full boiler.
• Mains electric cable.

Our last van (Challenger Vany PVC 6m) had a MIRO that was actually better than the manufacturers stated MIRO. It could be that their MIRO calculations included something else. I weighed it with all of the above (plus awning and Dometic aircon unit) so was pleasantly surprised when it cam in under the stated MIRO.

Same with H. Ripley at Ashford. We weighed in Norfolk and it was £25 with a printed receipt (no option for verbal).

I just payed £10 at tattenhall.

 

[Brains]

So you don’t actually know you’re making an assumption. No manufacture is going to produce a motorhome overweight before you even get in it.

No, but they produce them very close to the permitted weight.

Add a few normal extras such as an awning and then fill up with gas, fuel, some water, the maximum number of people (75kg each) plus their kit (125kg per person)
That is around one ton of additional weight for 4 people.

How many 3500kg 'box on the back' motorhomes come in at around 2500kg unladen?.
I'd suggest none.

Hence, I think you will find the majority of 3500kg 'box on the back' motorhomes, in full holiday mode, are overweight.

I believe that at one of the Funster Rallies a few years ago someone bought along a set of scales, as used by the police, to weigh vans.
I don't know if anyone kept the results, as I'd be fascinated to know how many of the 3500kg max, (Non-PVC) vans were overweight

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[stevewagner]

No, but they produce them very close to the permitted weight.

Add a few normal extras such as an awning and then fill up with gas, fuel, some water, the maximum number of people (75kg each) plus their kit (125kg per person)
That is around one ton of additional weight for 4 people.

How many 3500kg 'box on the back' motorhomes come in at around 2500kg unladen?.
I'd suggest none.

Hence, I think you will find the majority of 3500kg 'box on the back' motorhomes, in full holiday mode, are overweight.

I believe that at one of the Funster Rallies a few years ago someone bought along a set of scales, as used by the police, to weigh vans.
I don't know if anyone kept the results, as I'd be fascinated to know how many of the 3500kg max, (Non-PVC) vans were overweight

I agree at holiday weight many probably are over but it’s not what your original comment said.

 

[Lenny HB]

No, but they produce them very close to the permitted weight.

I your dreams, Hymer tend to be close but most other manufacturers use the tolerance so they can quote atificaly high payloads.
Carthago's for example you can pretty much guarantee every van will be 125 - 130 kg over.

With modern materials and production methods there shouldn't be more than a few kilos difference between vans. So the manufacturers are just using it for their own advantage.

 

[Brianmor]

Our Autosleeper Broadway has a quoted payload of 374kg which isn't very much. When we first got it I took it to a weighbridge in Portsmouth. I had all the gear for a 2 week trip, 80% water, full fuel and the wife it came in at 3475kg, which I thought was great.
Three years later just before our current french trip I weighed it again in approx the same condition and it was 3540kg with the back axle almost on the limit.
I took it home and went through everything with a fine tooth comb, shedding all the stuff you accumulate over time. I also relocated some of the heavier items nearer the front axle.
Another vist to the weighbridge showed a spot on 3500kg with better axle weight distribution .
I can now return from France with an adequate supply of vino.
The weighbridge price hasn't changed since I first used them at £10 an axle with official certification.

 

[alasdairandannie]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

The whole weight issue is a bit of sham in which manufacturers and dealers are complicit as they are determined, in the UK at least, to appear to keep weights below 3500. I don’t see how you can get away with much less than a 500kg payload for 2 people. You can quickly use up 100kg for a 2nd person and some water, another 100kg for an awning, solar panel or 2, inverter, satellite dish and associated boxes and a further 25kg for power cables, hoses, levellers etc. 2 bikes 30-50kg. 275kg in a flash with no clothing, kitchenware, food or sitting out furniture. And then of course possible useful items like spare wheel, second battery and gas bottle. Oh and a dog and possibly children …..
Manufacturers Should be able to weigh off the production line and tell you exactly what you are getting ’ready to drive’ say with 1/4 tank of fuel.
Used dealers should have to display the weight on the forecourt ‘as is’. It only costs £10 to go to most local authority weighbridges.

 

[TonyEmm]

The whole weight issue is a bit of sham in which manufacturers and dealers are complicit as they are determined, in the UK at least, to appear to keep weights below 3500. I don’t see how you can get away with much less than a 500kg payload for 2 people. You can quickly use up 100kg for a 2nd person and some water, another 100kg for an awning, solar panel or 2, inverter, satellite dish and associated boxes and a further 25kg for power cables, hoses, levellers etc. 2 bikes 30-50kg. 275kg in a flash with no clothing, kitchenware, food or sitting out furniture. And then of course possible useful items like spare wheel, second battery and gas bottle. Oh and a dog and possibly children …..
Manufacturers Should be able to weigh off the production line and tell you exactly what you are getting ’ready to drive’ say with 1/4 tank of fuel.
Used dealers should have to display the weight on the forecourt ‘as is’. It only costs £10 to go to most local authority weighbridges.

Couldn’t agree more!

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[Lenny HB]

Used dealers should have to display the weight on the forecourt ‘as is’.

But they would lose 90% of their customers.

 

[Mzracer]

But they would lose 90% of their customers.

This implies that a lot of supposed 3500KG MH's probably run over loaded and it is all to do with this stupid license restriction that clearly means absolutely nothing as it is going to be flexed to allow those with restricted licenses to drive EV's (vans) at 4250KG !!

I agree with what you have written.

 

[cyberyacht]

My 6.4m A Class in touring trim ( 100L water, full fuel, 2 lithium batteries(lighter),2 lightweight gas bottles, 2 E bikes plus the usual gubbins) including OH and myself (130Kg) together just manage at 3500Kg. with about 20Kg to spare. There is not a 7.5m motorhome on God's earth that will be able to run at 3500Kg, even with two people.

 

[DT]

This country has some very old ridiculous laws, rules and regulations. Same issue with caravans and the typical 150kg total payload. All the recent added safety features and software must make it safer for vehicle weights to be increased, als like others say never trust the manufacturer or dealer.

 

[Gellyneck]

This country has some very old ridiculous laws, rules and regulations. Same issue with caravans and the typical 150kg total payload. All the recent added safety features and software must make it safer for vehicle weights to be increased, als like others say never trust the manufacturer or dealer.

Did the 3.5t limitation not get introduced as a result of EU membership?

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[Mzracer]

This country has some very old ridiculous laws, rules and regulations. Same issue with caravans and the typical 150kg total payload. All the recent added safety features and software must make it safer for vehicle weights to be increased, als like others say never trust the manufacturer or dealer.

The 3500 Kg license restriction is a load of bollocks, my Mrs can drive 7500 Kg, I would not even let her near a decent sized estate car !! Yet over folk are restricted to 3500 Kg just because of when they were born.

Then those restricted to 3500 Kg will be allowed to drive 4250 EV vans because we need young delivery drivers in the cities, total tosh.

The 3500 Kg license is what pushes the MH manufacturers to try and make feather weight vehicles that in lot of cases are suing their 5% weight tolerance, like some one else said the MH's should be given a CofC on weight at the end of the production line.