Are today's shiny new motorhomes fit for purpose? (1 Viewer)

[LostInSpace]

I think not.

A shiny new Fiat based motorhome purchased new this year has been off the road for two months, unable to start the engine.

Why?

Because the start/stop system went start/stop start/STOP on lane two of a busy motorway - not to start again and has since been on the back of 4 recovery trucks. The tracker people keep ringing to ask why is it moving without the engine running?

In addition to that, before it STOPPED, the regenerative braking system was ridiculous - at best, only charging the starter battery to 12.2 volts. In some cases, the start/stop system was discharging the battery faster than the alternator could recharge it.

After being recovered from lane 2 of the motorway, the dealer told me that the engine battery was probably dead/dying when we bought it because it had been left uncharged in various places after the battery manufacturer made it. Quite probably for years before we got it.

The prospect of a low leisure battery being charged above 12.2 volts was non exsistant. (and that battery had probably suffered the same fate as the starter battery)

 

[The Wino]

But we live in the same world and as the world spins at any point during the day you will be in the same celestial position as the Chinese or French we are all just a few hours between where each country took this space we inhabit etc etc it’s all a matter of timing.

True although the air to a large extent moves along with us so we might be in the same celestial position but won't be in the same bit of atmosphere that they were in. If we were the wind speed would be about 1,000 mph!

 

[jongood]

But the wind blows from place to place, If I light a bonfire, one of my neighbours gets the smoke.

 

[The Wino]

But the wind blows from place to place, If I light a bonfire, one of my neighbours gets the smoke.

Do you think they smell it in China later the same day! Of course air pollution moves with the air but like water pollution will get diluted and wash out from the atmosphere hence our pollution in the past falling as acid rain in Europe but particles like smoke won't travel huge distances in any concentration.

 

[VXman]

But we live in the same world and as the world spins at any point during the day you will be in the same celestial position as the Chinese or French we are all just a few hours between where each country took this space we inhabit etc etc it’s all a matter of timing.

But the air doesn't spin with it.

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[WESTY66]

Well what comes out of the exhaust is certainly cleaner than it used to be.

Very true

For some vehicles, yes, but by no means all, especially heavy lorries and a lot of older ICE cars.

When we got our CAT 772G 50 ton dumptruck new some 8 or so years ago (first one in the country, adblu and all) the CAT engineers said we could put our face in the exhaust and it wouldn’t harm us, the emissions was that clean!
It was of course a metaphor as the exhaust fumes get very hot and we declined to try it

 

[jongood]

Do you think they smell it in China later the same day! Of course air pollution moves with the air but like water pollution will get diluted and wash out from the atmosphere hence our pollution in the past falling as acid rain in Europe but particles like smoke won't travel huge distances in any concentration.

I think that we all breathe the same air at some point or other.

I question the strategy of pricing older vehicles off the road in the name of reducing pollutants to then buy a replacement that encourages manufacturing in countries that don't have the same environmental standards.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I have had 3 Mercedes motorhomes all with major issues, nearly new and brand new.

I ran a fleet of Mercedes vans including the original FWD Vito. The Vitos were constantly in the garage. The pre 2000 MY Sprinters would easily cover 250,000 miles without issue.

Now run a 24 year old 150,000 km fiat Hymer. Other than age related issues has been utterly reliable for 7 years.

My current Mercedes van is constantly in for repairs, recalls and issues post recslls.

My low mileage Range Rover, loves visiting the garage at around £1,000 a time. Latest problem is the oil cooler, £1,000 to replace .


The only brands I have never had problems with…..

The old Range of Mitsubishi

And Toyotas.

We run a 28 year old Toyota and a 14 year old import. Just maintain them.

 

[Coolcats]

But the air doesn't spin with it.

If the air did not spin the pollution would be worse

 

[Coolcats]

But the air doesn't spin with it.

Hmmm so why we find Sahara dust fall from the air on to our cars etc, the same will apply to other particulates.

The Icelandic volcano stopped air flights

Vesuvius caused a blue moon

Pollution knows no boarders

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[our poppy lll]

I have only ever had one used vehicle, all my cars have been bought new, my last two leisure vehicles too.. but my first MoHo was used, 11,000 miles, 4 years old. Autotrail Cheyenne 660 EB. French bed. I had no end of repairs, from the laminate floor separating, to the thermometer breaking, to the engine computer needing replacing, the step stopping working while out.. There were problems after problems and I had to pay for the most part for the repairs. Only the computer was still in warranty. So from then on I bought new, ok there’s a few teething problems but warranty covers those. It’s not costing me, I know it will be serviced, I know the habitation checks will be done. I know any issues will be sorted by me. In 30 years I’ve had cars from new, never one breakdown, a few recalls but never a breakdown. Service regular, replace worn parts your motors should last a lifetime.
Always pay for an extended warranty if one is available. Always have breakdown cover. It’s not a cheap lifestyle, it’s actually a very expensive one. But it’s one that’s really worth every single penny you spend.

 

[ontheroadagain]

Also, how do you know you have a smart alternator. I have a 2021 Fiat and it's not a smart alternator.

Our 2021 built Fiat doesn’t have a smart alternator (or stop/start). V5C says Euro 6D CI.

 

[our poppy lll]

I would never ever buy a new vehicle of any sort. Had enough trouble with new company cars every two years just when the current car was sorted and running beautifully.


Well I never! In spite of having a lifelong interest in all things motorvehicles and engines I had no idea that regenerative braking systems were fitted on ICE motorhomes.

I have regenerative braking in my BMW 2.0 litre Diesel..

 

[PaulW2]

Hmmm so why we find Sahara dust fall from the air on to our cars etc, the same will apply to other particulates.

The Icelandic volcano stopped air flights

Vesuvius caused a blue moon

Pollution knows no boarders

There are a few separate but interrelated issues, aren’t there?

There are greenhouse gases. These go into the same upper atmosphere for all of us and cause the same climate effects.

Then there are other particles that are expelled and reach different heights and distances. The Sahara dust storms reach far; the unpronounceable volcano even further. With different adverse effects. One can affect your lungs, the other can ruin your jet engine and so on.

Then there is the stuff that mostly has an intense local effect, which reduces as you get further from source. This is why different cities, also in Europe, have different air quality ratings.

And sometimes the thing that causes a deterioration in local air quality, with associated health effects, also contains elements that contribute to climate change. Vehicle emissions are in this category.

 

[Spriddler]

I had no idea that regenerative braking systems were fitted on ICE motorhomes.

I have regenerative braking in my BMW 2.0 litre Diesel..

Yebbut, is it a BMW motorhome?

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[Tigger-Tim]

Gosh this thread has gone a long way adrift. Time to unwatch!

 

[our poppy lll]

Yebbut, is it a BMW motorhome?

No it’s a car! My new Kontiki has stop start but I don’t know if it has regenerative braking. I’ll ask.
Have we drifted away from the op? If so sorry..I’ll get me back on track

 

[tonyidle]

But the air doesn't spin with it.

Be a bit draughty if it didn't .

 

[Spriddler]

No it’s a car! My new Kontiki has stop start but I don’t know if it has regenerative braking. I’ll ask.

It would be interesting to know.

Have we drifted away from the op? If so sorry..I’ll get me back on track

Charging capability is very much on-topic. Being able to keep a motorhome's batteries topped up is one of the most common subjects on Fun.

 

[our poppy lll]

It would be interesting to know.

Charging capability is very much on-topic. Being able to keep a motorhome's batteries topped up is one of the most common subjects on Fun.

I’d love to keep the pretty flamingo equally fully charged!

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[Spriddler]

I’d love to keep the pretty flamingo equally fully charged!

If I get desperate I pay for a hook-up.

 

[Coolcats]

There are a few separate but interrelated issues, aren’t there?

There are greenhouse gases. These go into the same upper atmosphere for all of us and cause the same climate effects.

Then there are other particles that are expelled and reach different heights and distances. The Sahara dust storms reach far; the unpronounceable volcano even further. With different adverse effects. One can affect your lungs, the other can ruin your jet engine and so on.

Then there is the stuff that mostly has an intense local effect, which reduces as you get further from source. This is why different cities, also in Europe, have different air quality ratings.

And sometimes the thing that causes a deterioration in local air quality, with associated health effects, also contains elements that contribute to climate change. Vehicle emissions are in this category.

I agree it is interrelated and understand why the local issues, but I think its always much better to consider the whole system and its inconectivity

 

[The Wino]

Hmmm so why we find Sahara dust fall from the air on to our cars etc, the same will apply to other particulates.

The Icelandic volcano stopped air flights

Vesuvius caused a blue moon

Pollution knows no boarders

There are upper air currents like the Jetstream that can carry particles a fair distance but the idea that particulate pollution produced in China gets here in any quantity I think is very unlikely. It's a different matter with gasses like co2 they will mix with the atmosphere. Did the Icelandic volcano stop flights in China?

 

[ghoster]

It is not the "free" charging which is the problem. It is the lack of any meaningful charging for the rest of the time.

I suggest a scenario:-

Motorhome leaves EHU campsite with batteries fully charged (12.8 volts)
Cruises for 6 hours on open motorway with headlights on.
No need to brake (and negligible engine overun), so smart alternator sits at 12.2 volts.
Without effective charging, Engine battery is drained by headlights to 12.2 volts.
As the split charge relay is operated, does the leisure battery get drained as well?

Motorhome arrives at new destination without EHU and both batteries are at 12.2 volts.

Despite the smart alternator, when we have been on a long run the batteries never show a full charge. A disadvantage when off grid.

 

[LostInSpace]

Despite the smart alternator, when we have been on a long run the batteries never show a full charge. A disadvantage when off grid.

Because of having the not-so-smart alternator, not Despite having the smart alternator

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[BikerGraham]

Having just read a bit more about this it appears to be an issue for vehicles doing low mileage, so exactly the profile for a majority of motorhomes. If the vehicle is sat for any length of time, the AdBlue crystallises and blocks the sensors/pipes thus rendering it irreparable hence the need to replace the whole tank. Also AdBlue turns to ammonia at 300degC so if the temperatures are not reaching full temperature for any length of time it can have a detrimental effect on the longevity of the AdBlue. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to park you new MH up for the winter with a tank full of AdBlue.

May be worth a look at this https://skinnytree.co.uk/product/wynns-crystal-clean-and-protect-125ml/

many high mileage vehicles also have adblue issues. Mine did at 40 months old and 65000 miles.

Adblue issues are across all manufacturers and all vehicles. The systems are not fit for purpose.

Parts are not available due to the amount of issues requiring replacement parts. The worst thing being that the EU insisted that within the software that if the adblue system has a fault it gives you a short space of time (miles) to get it fixed before the engine refuses to be restarted,

Great if they can be fixed but you can end up with a vehicle unable to be fixed and unable to be used.

Hence the increase in software companies who are linking out the software. As said the whole system was badly thought out, poorly designed and implemented.

 

[PaulW2]

Presumably some of the new ones will get even fitter in a few short years?

When they are electrically powered and probably don’t need hab batteries(?), B2B chargers, alternators, diesel and AdBlu, gearboxes and clutches.

 

[BikerGraham]

I suggested linking out the sensor to Mercedes but they wouldn't. Got a local man to completely solve the problem £200.

manufacturers / dealers wont do that as basically it wouldn't then comply with the type approval so its illegal.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

many high mileage vehicles also have adblue issues. Mine did at 40 months old and 65000 miles.

Adblue issues are across all manufacturers and all vehicles. The systems are not fit for purpose.

Parts are not available due to the amount of issues requiring replacement parts. The worst thing being that the EU insisted that within the software that if the adblue system has a fault it gives you a short space of time (miles) to get it fixed before the engine refuses to be restarted,

Great if they can be fixed but you can end up with a vehicle unable to be fixed and unable to be used.

Hence the increase in software companies who are linking out the software. As said the whole system was badly thought out, poorly designed and implemented.

MEPs have just voted to introduce Euro 7 standards. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...e Commission, by,particles would be 27% lower.

 

[PaulW2]

I now understand that Ad Blue delete services are available all over the place. So presumably many people are having it done. But doing it renders the vehicle illegal for road use in the UK and European countries.

This gives rise to some questions. (Leaving aside for now any questions of morality.)

How would such deletion be detected in order for prosecution to follow? Presumably it would, under normal circumstances, be quite difficult to detect. But then what happens if the vehicle breaks down, even for a different reason. Would the vehicle warranty be invalidated? And if one is in a road 'incident' resulting in an insurance claim, would this, if detected, not also result in insurance being invalidated?

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[nicholsong]

MEPs have just voted to introduce Euro 7 standards. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20231009IPR06746/euro-7-meps-back-new-rules-to-reduce-road-transport-emissions#:~:text=According to the Commission, by,particles would be 27% lower.

Just a committee vote. It still has to go to a Plenary session.