Wiring in new Victron B2B? (1 Viewer)

[LithiumConvert]

I've set my schaudt 121525 to the lead acid setting, at least it drops down to 13.8V for absorption.

The Schaudt 121545 has a lead-acid setting which gives 13.4 volts.

Does anybody see any disadvantage with doing this?
It sounds good to me.

 

[TheBig1]

My advice is don't over complicate the charge circuit with both remaining powered. It can be a right pain fault finding later and write down a record of what you change and why. We recently heard about one install that was back feeding the dashboard with the ignition off and the more complicated vehicle wiring gets, the bigger the problems

A friend was telling me recently about a boy racer car they looked at in the garage. The owner had added wiring for an audio system and toys. End result was back feeding the ECU corrupting the data tables as the engine shut down but the relay to protect the BCU and ECU didn't shut off

 

[Googlebot]

My advice is don't over complicate the charge circuit with both remaining powered. It can be a right pain fault finding later and write down a record of what you change and why. We recently heard about one install that was back feeding the dashboard with the ignition off and the more complicated vehicle wiring gets, the bigger the problems

A friend was telling me recently about a boy racer car they looked at in the garage. The owner had added wiring for an audio system and toys. End result was back feeding the ECU corrupting the data tables as the engine shut down but the relay to protect the BCU and ECU didn't shut off

I don’t disagree with keeping it simple. What I have now is in and working perfectly. The only extra will be another B2B between the leisure and engine batteries.

The beauty of the Victron kit is it makes fault finding a doddle with the history graphs as well.

I suppose I need to get the unit and see if it will physically fit and then go from there.

Would be interested to hear if anyone else has fitted 2?

 

[Clive Mott]

I would not replace Votronic with Victron. As you said the Votronic has been faultless. Victron stuff can be a can of worms unless you are adept and equipped for its software.
Hymer for example fit Votronic.
We struggled to sort out a friends Victron system while in Spain for 2 months, It just shut down. We identified the problems but had no way of correcting them. Only sorted by the dealer on their return to the uk.
KISS.

 

[Two on Tour]

I would not replace Votronic with Victron. As you said the Votronic has been faultless. Victron stuff can be a can of worms unless you are adept and equipped for its software.
Hymer for example fit Votronic.
We struggled to sort out a friends Victron system while in Spain for 2 months, It just shut down. We identified the problems but had no way of correcting them. Only sorted by the dealer on their return to the uk.
KISS.

Totally disagree with your comments on Victron equipment
Victron equipment for the most part can be used straight from the box and you have the capability of getting much more of their capabilities with simple adjustments of the software menus whereas the Voltronic gear is pretty well just a dumb box with little in the way of fine tuning.

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[peterc10]

Totally disagree with your comments on Victron equipment
Victron equipment for the most part can be used straight from the box and you have the capability of getting much more of their capabilities with simple adjustments of the software menus whereas the Voltronic gear is pretty well just a dumb box with little in the way of fine tuning.

Paul, you must remember that a dumb user needs a dumb box. That's why I went with Votronic. My Victron gear tells me all sorts of things and allows me to change lots of settings. 90% of it I don't even understand so I leave it alone.

Looking at the kit, Victronic seems better designed and built to this untrained eye. For example, both the solar regulator and B2B have cooling fans fitted unlike Victron's equivalent models at the time I bought them. I understand that now Victron fit a fan on their smaller B2B because of overheating.

Never underestimate the harm a dumb user can do to a clever machine.

 

[Pausim]

Totally disagree with your comments on Victron equipment
Victron equipment for the most part can be used straight from the box and you have the capability of getting much more of their capabilities with simple adjustments of the software menus whereas the Voltronic gear is pretty well just a dumb box with little in the way of fine tuning.

My 6 years old Votronic B2B has 8 battery profiles, 2 levels of output limit, 3 levels of input limit and 4 operating modes. When I bought it, it was the most adjustable and least dumb unit on the market. The new Victron XS looks excellent and if buying now I might choose it because of it’s size and weight but it could be argued that Victron has taken a long time catching up. I certainly wouldn’t swap my Votronic for the earlier Victron B2B which has a reputation for getting very hot.

 

[AdrianChen]

I would not replace Votronic with Victron. As you said the Votronic has been faultless. Victron stuff can be a can of worms unless you are adept and equipped for its software.
Hymer for example fit Votronic.
We struggled to sort out a friends Victron system while in Spain for 2 months, It just shut down. We identified the problems but had no way of correcting them. Only sorted by the dealer on their return to the uk.
KISS.

I would be interested to know what the failure was on your friends Victron system - It's always good to be pre-armed with knowledge!

 

[Two on Tour]

Paul, you must remember that a dumb user needs a dumb box.

As I pointed out in my first paragraph, the Victron can be as dumb as you like out of the box, by just choosing the option that best suits your setup on the simple options menu.

Are we now moving onto territory bought up in the meanders thread?

 

[Googlebot]

I would not replace Votronic with Victron. As you said the Votronic has been faultless. Victron stuff can be a can of worms unless you are adept and equipped for its software.
Hymer for example fit Votronic.
We struggled to sort out a friends Victron system while in Spain for 2 months, It just shut down. We identified the problems but had no way of correcting them. Only sorted by the dealer on their return to the uk.
KISS.

My original install had 2 Votronic solar controllers, I had to change them to Victron as they kept just stopping. I couldn’t work out why, tried all different settings and because I couldn’t monitor them to the same degree I can Victron, I had to change them as I couldn’t drill down any problem.

I would usually find out after my batteries were low.

The Victron have been in over a year and haven’t skipped a beat.

Neither are perfect, but for me the Victron one will do the job well, integrate with my other devices and is a compact efficient design.

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[The Artilleryman]

After much research I fitted the Votronic 12 12 30 B2B as it has a built in fan and being fitted in the bottom of the wardrobe (Bailey Autograph 68-2) air circulation might be a problem.
Solar controller, shunt (BMV 712) and mains charger are all Victron.

One problem that has returned (maybe never went away) is that, SOC resets to 100% in the morning - discharged LiFePO4 to 60% whist doing some work around the MoHo - BMV mirrored what the LiFePO4 bms soc was till I checked this morning and BMV says 100% LiFePO4 says 80% and this seems to cause the solar controller to go into absorbtion rather than stay in bulk, not a lot of sun recently.

 

[AdrianChen]

After much research I fitted the Votronic 12 12 30 B2B as it has a built in fan and being fitted in the bottom of the wardrobe (Bailey Autograph 68-2) air circulation might be a problem.
Solar controller, shunt (BMV 712) and mains charger are all Victron.

One problem that has returned (maybe never went away) is that, SOC resets to 100% in the morning - discharged LiFePO4 to 60% whist doing some work around the MoHo - BMV mirrored what the LiFePO4 bms soc was till I checked this morning and BMV says 100% LiFePO4 says 80% and this seems to cause the solar controller to go into absorbtion rather than stay in bulk, not a lot of sun recently.

The Solar controller should only flip from bulk to absorption when the charging parameters set in the controller are met, shouldn't be influenced by the BMV or BMS - so I would have a look at those settings.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Dodging the heavy rain showers here, but just reset the smartsolar to Victron LiFePO4 (14.2v & 13.5v) to see what it does over the next couple of days. BMV was set to 82%, app closes came inside due to rain, went back 10 mins. later and it's reset to 100% again ?????

 

[AdrianChen]

Dodging the heavy rain showers here, but just reset the smartsolar to Victron LiFePO4 (14.2v & 13.5v) to see what it does over the next couple of days. BMV was set to 82%, app closes came inside due to rain, went back 10 mins. later and it's reset to 100% again ?????

Post up the battery and advanced settings- I'm sure someone will know/work it out

 

[Raul]

After much research I fitted the Votronic 12 12 30 B2B as it has a built in fan and being fitted in the bottom of the wardrobe (Bailey Autograph 68-2) air circulation might be a problem.
Solar controller, shunt (BMV 712) and mains charger are all Victron.

One problem that has returned (maybe never went away) is that, SOC resets to 100% in the morning - discharged LiFePO4 to 60% whist doing some work around the MoHo - BMV mirrored what the LiFePO4 bms soc was till I checked this morning and BMV says 100% LiFePO4 says 80% and this seems to cause the solar controller to go into absorbtion rather than stay in bulk, not a lot of sun recently.

Check on bmv setting if reset SOC on power up is activated, disable it. Also change your small positive feed wire fuse from 100ma to 1A, the glass fuse. Thats a culprit for reseting, it fails then re connects.

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[Googlebot]

Had a good crawl underneath tonight while waiting for the new B2B to arrive. I was worried that it would overload the alternator if it wasn’t a big one.

I can confirm it’s a 150 amp so will be keeping the Victron and Votronic running together.

 

[RogerIvy]

Nice to know.

 

[Guigsy]

I've finally got around to fitting the Votronic 30A today... I bought about 18 months ago. Before I bought my lithium battery.

I've been running without a B2B. I was getting up to 17A straight off the alternator when the battery was low. But I was occasionally getting voltage spikes.

My Elekroblock wiring looked to have nice thick wires and a 50A fuse to the battery, so I took the option of just wiring the B2B inline, just before the Elekroblock. There was a space nearby that was convenient. It just breaks into the cab battery positive before it goes into the EBL, needs a D+ to trigger it, which was easy to find, and a new negative to the hab battery. Took me about 2 hours to figure out what I was going to do, and about an hour once I started actually cutting cables.

I've switched everything back on and started the engine and nothing smoked, which is good . Everything still works, including the fridge. The battery is already full though, so the B2B just trickled a few amps in before saying it was full.

I assumed the fridge ran on power from the EBL, but I'm not so sure now. Does it have it's own feed?

I've only got 175w of solar. And I was only getting 17A at best when driving (hopefully 30A now). But I'm a relatively low power user (gas fridge, no need for an inverter). And I've got 280Ah of lithium. So even in darkest winter, I can stay off grid for days at a time before the battery starts getting low. And I generally move frequently, and stay at sites to do laundry every 7-10 days where I'll have EHU to fully recharge. So it's never been a problem, I've not run the battery down in the last year. More generation would be nice, but I don't think I need it, ironically because the battery is so big...

 

[Googlebot]

I've finally got around to fitting the Votronic 30A today... I bought about 18 months ago. Before I bought my lithium battery.

I've been running without a B2B. I was getting up to 17A straight off the alternator when the battery was low. But I was occasionally getting voltage spikes.

My Elekroblock wiring looked to have nice thick wires and a 50A fuse to the battery, so I took the option of just wiring the B2B inline, just before the Elekroblock. There was a space nearby that was convenient. It just breaks into the cab battery positive before it goes into the EBL, needs a D+ to trigger it, which was easy to find, and a new negative to the hab battery. Took me about 2 hours to figure out what I was going to do, and about an hour once I started actually cutting cables.

I've switched everything back on and started the engine and nothing smoked, which is good . Everything still works, including the fridge. The battery is already full though, so the B2B just trickled a few amps in before saying it was full.

I assumed the fridge ran on power from the EBL, but I'm not so sure now. Does it have it's own feed?

I've only got 175w of solar. And I was only getting 17A at best when driving (hopefully 30A now). But I'm a relatively low power user (gas fridge, no need for an inverter). And I've got 280Ah of lithium. So even in darkest winter, I can stay off grid for days at a time before the battery starts getting low. And I generally move frequently, and stay at sites to do laundry every 7-10 days where I'll have EHU to fully recharge. So it's never been a problem, I've not run the battery down in the last year. More generation would be nice, but I don't think I need it, ironically because the battery is so big...

The fridge has its own supply direct from the leisure batteries I think. The EBL triggers the D+ on the fridge which then switches on the 15 amps supply direct to the fridge. It’s in addition to the B2B amps I get anyway.

Lenny HB can probably explain it much better than me.

That was one of the things that worried me, I am actually pulling 45 amps with a 30 amp B2B due to the fridge. A load of 95 amps off an alternator is big and I wanted to make sure it could cope.

280AH is massive. I lasted 5 nights in January on 200AH with 380w of solar which did virtually nothing.

I can recharge from flat with this setup in 2 hours of driving so that’s a result.

 

[Lenny HB]

took the option of just wiring the B2B inline, just before the Elekroblock. There was a space nearby that was convenient. It just breaks into the cab battery positive before it goes into the EBL,

Much better to bypass the EBL the split charge relay contacts often get carboned up reducing the charge rate.

I assumed the fridge ran on power from the EBL, but I'm not so sure now. Does it have it's own feed?

Normal arrangement is a 20 amp fuse by the starter battery that is wired to an input on the front of the EBL relay inside that switches fridge power from starter battery with engine running to leisure battery when engine not running.
Same cable is used for charging starter battery from EBL.

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[Lenny HB]

280AH is massive. I lasted 5 nights in January on 200AH with 380w of solar which did virtually nothing.

Interesting but does depend on your power use. I'm thinking when I get the new van 280ah not enough and planing on 460 or 560ah.

 

[Googlebot]

Interesting but does depend on your power use. I'm thinking when I get the new van 280ah not enough and planing on 460 or 560ah.

I budget 40AH a day if careful.

If using the inverter, much more!

 

[Lenny HB]

I budget 40AH a day if careful.

If using the inverter, much more!

We use 20-30 summer /autumn about 60 in winter but planning on using much more electric in the new van. Going to fit a Multiplus 3000, no oven so looking at a air fryer type oven and my fit an additional 12v water heater. So probably need at least 460ah.

 

[Guigsy]

Much better to bypass the EBL the split charge relay contacts often get carboned up reducing the charge rate.

I'll keep an eye on it. I need to run the battery down a bit to see how much charge it actually gives.

Inline was neater solution. It's a massive rats nest of cabling already. Especially considering my Elekroblock is supposed to have minimal wiring due to all the separate satellite modules. There's bundles of cables that head off all over the cab. I'm not very impressed with the cable management of Geist.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'll keep an eye on it. I need to run the battery down a bit to see how much charge it actually gives.

Inline was neater solution. It's a massive rats nest of cabling already. Especially considering my Elekroblock is supposed to have minimal wiring due to all the separate satellite modules. There's bundles of cables that head off all over the cab. I'm not very impressed with the cable management of Geist.

I remember now you a funny system microprocessors for the sake of them.

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[Guigsy]

I remember now you a funny system microprocessors for the sake of them.

It appears it was a Shaudt experiment. The model and concept seem to have disappeared. I've not had any more issues. Other than it's quite power hungry even when off.

 

[AdrianChen]

That's interesting - similar to Czone & EmpirBus systems which I've seen used, I think Airstream RV's offered Czone. Certainly made more sense as the installations got larger and more complex as it used less copper, was quicker to install and gave the owner a simple & "smart" LCD panel switches. Main benefit was about de-centralising the power distribution, and moving towards common interface between different suppliers. Would have thought on a small van the benefits would be slim.

 

[Lenny HB]

It appears it was a Shaudt experiment. The model and concept seem to have disappeared. I've not had any more issues. Other than it's quite power hungry even when off.
View attachment 885834View attachment 885835

Nowt wrong with a panel and some switches, hardly ever goes wrong and if it does easy to sort.
I'm electronics by trade but I hate technology just for the sake of it.

 

[Guigsy]

Nowt wrong with a panel and some switches, hardly ever goes wrong and if it does easy to sort.
I'm electronics by trade but I hate technology just for the sake of it.

I'm increasingly thinking there's a market for a replacement of older Elekroblocks (and other brands) with a modern but simpler device. We're bypassing the chargers and switching for lithium and higher power solar. We don't use them to see the level of our batteries. We're just left with a junction and fuse box...

 

[Guigsy]

Update: I turned the solar off for a few days to run the battery down a bit. Then drove around this morning with my new Votronic 30a B2B. It is providing 30a... But only about half that when the fridge is on, so I guess it isn't a separate circuit. I've never checked, but I bet I was getting almost no charge whilst the fridge was on before.

I've also got myself an IR camera, so I could check for hotspots. The wiring was about 20C after half an hour, the Votronic's case was about 25C. Inside the vents it was considerably warmer at 65C according to the camera, but I guess that's why it's got a fan on such a small unit. If everything outside is cool, I think it's all good.

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