Winter in Villasol

[Fulham Dave]

7

Not a bad site but a bit isolated..BUSBY.

Thanks Busby!

 

[gus-lopez]

It's fancyful speculation, mischeif and probably a lot of bordem thrown in for good measure. So far, no one who questions the legality of having a UK registered vehicle in the E.U. for 90 days plus has been able to back it up with any official source, just hearsay and speculation.
The thread has now been hijacked away from its original course and we have drifted into the realm of fantasy and speculation.

Official source replied last night.
Raul & his Dad are correct.

I asked ;;

**The law now states that UK citizens can now only be in the schengen area for 90 days in 180 day rolling period.
If the UK citizen & resident uses another passport from an EU state for which they have dual nationality can they travel unhindered in the schengen area & not be subject to the 90 days in 180?

If the above person was using a UK registered vehicle,i.e. a motorhome for the extended travel would the vehicle be legally allowed in the schengen area in excess of 90 days ?

Which rules take precedence, European or national state regulations?

Thanking you in advance
regards,
Gus López **



THE REPLY;

** *****
Dear Mr. López,

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

If you also hold the citizenship of an EU country, you remain an EU citizen. EU citizens do not need a visa for any length of stay in any EU country. In this case, the fact that you also hold UK citizenship is not relevant.

Please note that as an EU citizen in another EU country than that of your nationality, you may need to report your presence or register your residence: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/index_en.htm

The Commission’s position is that the Withdrawal Agreement does not prohibit United Kingdom nationals and their family members from holding additional statuses under other instruments of EU or national law at the same time, provided they meet the conditions attached to these statuses. The holding of multiple statuses implies that multiple documents are issued so that the holder can evidence that s/he holds multiple statuses. Where a UK national holds several status, s/he may choose which status to rely on in a given context.

When it comes to your question regarding driving a UK registered car in the EU, please be informed that national rules are applicable in this case. You may find additional information on the following link: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-the-eu

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

So national rules apply & as Raul stated Romania state 90 days for a UK vehicle regardless of who is driving it & whether from an EU country or not &,as Raul said, the Germans appear to be doing the same?

 

[PhilandMena]

Official source replied last night.
Raul & his Dad are correct.

I asked ;;

**The law now states that UK citizens can now only be in the schengen area for 90 days in 180 day rolling period.
If the UK citizen & resident uses another passport from an EU state for which they have dual nationality can they travel unhindered in the schengen area & not be subject to the 90 days in 180?

If the above person was using a UK registered vehicle,i.e. a motorhome for the extended travel would the vehicle be legally allowed in the schengen area in excess of 90 days ?

Which rules take precedence, European or national state regulations?

Thanking you in advance
regards,
Gus López **



THE REPLY;

** *****
Dear Mr. López,

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

If you also hold the citizenship of an EU country, you remain an EU citizen. EU citizens do not need a visa for any length of stay in any EU country. In this case, the fact that you also hold UK citizenship is not relevant.

Please note that as an EU citizen in another EU country than that of your nationality, you may need to report your presence or register your residence: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/index_en.htm

The Commission’s position is that the Withdrawal Agreement does not prohibit United Kingdom nationals and their family members from holding additional statuses under other instruments of EU or national law at the same time, provided they meet the conditions attached to these statuses. The holding of multiple statuses implies that multiple documents are issued so that the holder can evidence that s/he holds multiple statuses. Where a UK national holds several status, s/he may choose which status to rely on in a given context.

When it comes to your question regarding driving a UK registered car in the EU, please be informed that national rules are applicable in this case. You may find additional information on the following link: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-the-eu

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

So national rules apply & as Raul stated Romania state 90 days for a UK vehicle regardless of who is driving it & whether from an EU country or not &,as Raul said, the Germans appear to be doing the same?

Wotever ! I have no intention of exceeding 90 days in either of these countries so not really bothered to be honest.

 

[TONCAZ]

Finally someone is admitting to growing some! I am on the cusp of doing exactly the same. I do now know of people that have returned to Spain having gone over a 90 day stay and nothing happened on their return additionally they are also intending to overstay as they did before the so called restrictions on current trip.

At the moment they do not seem to be checking, but when the ETIAS system kicks in you wont be able to overstay, so I think fill your boots before it starts

 

[gus-lopez]

Wotever ! I have no intention of exceeding 90 days in either of these countries so not really bothered to be honest.

So what rules are spain using?

you need to know what other states will be imposing if as if they all stuck to the same it wouldn't be possible to travel over 90 days using an other state EU passport with a UK vehicle.

Also you do not need to exceed 90 days in any state using national rules for the vehicle ( 90 Days maximum) as they will just use schengen rules & add any days elsewhere to it , making you over in that state.

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[PhilandMena]

So what rules are spain using?

you need to know what other states will be imposing if as if they all stuck to the same it wouldn't be possible to travel over 90 days using an other state EU passport with a UK vehicle.

Also you do not need to exceed 90 days in any state using national rules for the vehicle ( 90 Days maximum) as they will just use schengen rules & add any days elsewhere to it , making you over in that state.

Wotever ! My arrangements will not be changing !

 

[Just smiffy]

Now bear with me gus-lopez going to Spain or Europe in a motorhome/car/vehicle, my property, what would be the difference between my car sitting on a street for 90 days outside my villa that I own…?
See where I’m coming from..? I can be a British citizen whos residency and passport is in the uk but own a villa in Spain and that’s going nowhere for years and that’s ok but I cant have some of my property there such as a car…

 

[Raul]

You pay tax on the Vila? So do you on the car? Where?
In Germany you need to register the car from another EU country if you stay more than 90 days, and you pay tax in Germany. Despite being registered in a diferent EU country. My cousin just did this, to allow the car registered in Ro to stay longer than 90 days in Germany. Not possible for UK plates. Each EU state has limits for temporary import of foreign plates.

 

[PhilandMena]

Here we go! Thread being hijacked again !

 

[gus-lopez]

Now bear with me gus-lopez going to Spain or Europe in a motorhome/car/vehicle, my property, what would be the difference between my car sitting on a street for 90 days outside my villa that I own…?
See where I’m coming from..? I can be a British citizen whos residency and passport is in the uk but own a villa in Spain and that’s going nowhere for years and that’s ok but I cant have some of my property there such as a car…

Before you could have it parked there for up to 6 months,legally, but you as a person ,could only legally be there 90 consecutive days before becoming illegal.That then meant the vehicle could not be driven. If a vehicle stayed there over 6 months legally it has to be 'precintado' ( sealed ) by the Guardia to prevent use but since eu rules came in they will not do it.It has to be removed from the country.
Now in there reply they are stating that each state can use national laws to indicate how long the UK registered vehicle is allowed to be there regardless of if the driver holds an EU state passport,& so is entitled to be there as long as they want.As Raul has shown both Romania & Germany are using 90 days for a UK registered vehicle regardless. I doubt that many others will be different?

Here we go! Thread being hijacked again !

No, this is in reply to your statement,in post # 85,

It's fancyful speculation, mischeif and probably a lot of bordem thrown in for good measure. So far, no one who questions the legality of having a UK registered vehicle in the E.U. for 90 days plus has been able to back it up with any official source, just hearsay and speculation.
The thread has now been hijacked away from its original course and we have drifted into the realm of fantasy and speculation.

that we were all spouting mischief & nonsense without any legal information. We have now provided both you,& gov.uk, with the correct info as they refused to commit themselves despite multiple emails & employing cast-offs from the dvla who answer questions you have't asked,knowing full well what the rules were & not wanting to annoy people. Which is what would happen.
That is why there is no specific & categorical info on gov.uk sites .

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[PhilandMena]

Before you could have it parked there for up to 6 months,legally, but you as a person ,could only legally be there 90 consecutive days before becoming illegal.That then meant the vehicle could not be driven. If a vehicle stayed there over 6 months legally it has to be 'precintado' ( sealed ) by the Guardia to prevent use but since eu rules came in they will not do it.It has to be removed from the country.
Now in there reply they are stating that each state can use national laws to indicate how long the UK registered vehicle is allowed to be there regardless of if the driver holds an EU state passport,& so is entitled to be there as long as they want.As Raul has shown both Romania & Germany are using 90 days for a UK registered vehicle regardless. I doubt that many others will be different?

No, this is in reply to your statement,in post # 85,



that we were all spouting mischief & nonsense without any legal information. We have now provided both you,& gov.uk, with the correct info as they refused to commit themselves despite multiple emails & employing cast-offs from the dvla who answer questions you have't asked,knowing full well what the rules were & not wanting to annoy people. Which is what would happen.
That is why there is no specific & categorical info on gov.uk sites .

Whatever Gus ! You have now made your point ! perhaps you can allow this thread to return to its original subject ! If you want to continue raising this matter I would advise you start a new thread on the subject and I wish you great success with it.

 

[billym]

Official source replied last night.
Raul & his Dad are correct.

I asked ;;

**The law now states that UK citizens can now only be in the schengen area for 90 days in 180 day rolling period.
If the UK citizen & resident uses another passport from an EU state for which they have dual nationality can they travel unhindered in the schengen area & not be subject to the 90 days in 180?

If the above person was using a UK registered vehicle,i.e. a motorhome for the extended travel would the vehicle be legally allowed in the schengen area in excess of 90 days ?

Which rules take precedence, European or national state regulations?

Thanking you in advance
regards,
Gus López **



THE REPLY;

** *****
Dear Mr. López,

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

If you also hold the citizenship of an EU country, you remain an EU citizen. EU citizens do not need a visa for any length of stay in any EU country. In this case, the fact that you also hold UK citizenship is not relevant.

Please note that as an EU citizen in another EU country than that of your nationality, you may need to report your presence or register your residence: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/index_en.htm

The Commission’s position is that the Withdrawal Agreement does not prohibit United Kingdom nationals and their family members from holding additional statuses under other instruments of EU or national law at the same time, provided they meet the conditions attached to these statuses. The holding of multiple statuses implies that multiple documents are issued so that the holder can evidence that s/he holds multiple statuses. Where a UK national holds several status, s/he may choose which status to rely on in a given context.

When it comes to your question regarding driving a UK registered car in the EU, please be informed that national rules are applicable in this case. You may find additional information on the following link: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-the-eu

We hope you find this information useful. Please contact us again if you have other questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.

So national rules apply & as Raul stated Romania state 90 days for a UK vehicle regardless of who is driving it & whether from an EU country or not &,as Raul said, the Germans appear to be doing the same?

Thanks for that info
Do you know where you can find the information ( such as the 90 day rule in Romania) for other EU countries?

 

[gus-lopez]

Thanks for that info
Do you know where you can find the information ( such as the 90 day rule in Romania) for other EU countries?

No sorry,I have no idea?

 

[deleted79651]

Simple approach is, perhaps, to look at what happened pre Brexit. UK citizens allowed up to 180 days in EU country, any longer in one country would require you to register in that country for taxation purposes. Use of UK vehicles in Spain for up to 6 months Winter Sun was never a problem, and, because this remains a national competence/authority matter, rather than an EU Regulation, Spain would not appear to be unduly bothered. Other countries, e.g. Romania, take a different view and limit the vehicle temporary importation to 90 days.

So 180 days in Spain with motorhome is OK. Personal stay is limited to 90 days in180 days UNLESS the UK resident is travelling with an EU passport [Irish in my case] holding spouse. So, carrying Birth & Marriage Certificates to prove marital status is the only additional requirement.

For other Schengen countries, UK citizens will need to check the Temporary Import of Vehicle Regs for the maximum period of use before departure.

If I've misinterpreted the requirements/Regs, then I apologise now, but I would appreciate other Funsters checking my suggestion for any flaws or omissions.

Steve

 

[Millie 'n us]

We are travelling down to Nerja, which we love, but goodness knows where we’ll camp. We’ve been booted off everywhere possible down there. Any recommendations for camping in North east Spain as we thought we’d explore a new area before heading south in December.

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[PhilandMena]

Simple approach is, perhaps, to look at what happened pre Brexit. UK citizens allowed up to 180 days in EU country, any longer in one country would require you to register in that country for taxation purposes. Use of UK vehicles in Spain for up to 6 months Winter Sun was never a problem, and, because this remains a national competence/authority matter, rather than an EU Regulation, Spain would not appear to be unduly bothered. Other countries, e.g. Romania, take a different view and limit the vehicle temporary importation to 90 days.

So 180 days in Spain with motorhome is OK. Personal stay is limited to 90 days in180 days UNLESS the UK resident is travelling with an EU passport [Irish in my case] holding spouse. So, carrying Birth & Marriage Certificates to prove marital status is the only additional requirement.

For other Schengen countries, UK citizens will need to check the Temporary Import of Vehicle Regs for the maximum period of use before departure.

If I've misinterpreted the requirements/Regs, then I apologise now, but I would appreciate other Funsters checking my suggestion for any flaws or omissions.

Steve

 

[PhilandMena]

This has been raised before where some members have said that E.U. member states determine the limit that UK vehicles can stay in their country and not the E.U. I wrote to the E.U. on this matter and asked how long a UK vehicle could stay in the E.U. and they responded and directed me to the UK Gov. website. (My take on this was they either were in agreement with the UK law on this matter or they have no E.U. law covering this subject at all). The UK Gov website states a 12 Months limit providing vehicle is legal, i.e. taxed, MOT, insured and V5 available to show relevant authorities and this information can easily be accessed through a web search.
I have yet to see any official documentation from any E.U. country on what the limitations are for UK vehicles being in there country, only what some members are stating and I have read on here, for Romania its 3 months. As I have no plans to visit Romania for 3 months I have dismissed it.

 

[Armytwowheels]

Let us know when you are there Phil and we will pop through for the day and have a catch up, if you'll have us!

We're hoping to be over again early November til early jan - then off to maroc

Absolutely Darren, it will be so good to see you guys again. Busman Dave and Maggie are planning to hook up with us too and maybe we can kill two birds with one stone.

We will be passing through at some point too. It would be great if the timings work out to meet up.

We too are lucky enough to have one Irish passport between us (Colins) and an application in for Citizenship for me. But yes there is no movement on citizenship applications since covid started.

 

[PhilandMena]

We will be passing through at some point too. It would be great if the timings work out to meet up.

We too are lucky enough to have one Irish passport between us (Colins) and an application in for Citizenship for me. But yes there is no movement on citizenship applications since covid started.

It would be absolutely effing spiffing if we could all meet up again at the same time and we would love to see you guys again. Busman Dave has got hir Spanish registration this year and you might want to chat with him as he is now very familiar with the registration process. Even got his motorhome merticulated.

 

[Dazzlin]

We will be passing through at some point too. It would be great if the timings work out to meet up.

We too are lucky enough to have one Irish passport between us (Colins) and an application in for Citizenship for me. But yes there is no movement on citizenship applications since covid started.

Great. We are in the same urb, but have our own place now, not quite the same as the WSM villa but we love it!

Look forward to the updates on your build!

Message us when you are in the area.

D n L

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[Armytwowheels]

Great. We are in the same urb, but have our own place now, not quite the same as the WSM villa but we love it!

Message us when you are in the area

You can count on it.

 

[Dazzlin]

It would be absolutely effing spiffing if we could all meet up again at the same time and we would love to see you guys again. Busman Dave has got hir Spanish registration this year and you might want to chat with him as he is now very familiar with the registration process. Even got his motorhome merticulated.

Get in touch when you are over Phil.

We fly over on Tuesday and are at the same place as we met you both last time, now in our 'villa'. We are there 'til the end of December, but maroc is off the cards.

We can pop down in our car and do a restaurant on the urb or a "beer o'clock at the aire"
Or both!

Or have a run over to Beni....

 

[gus-lopez]

UK citizens allowed up to 180 days in EU country, any longer in one country would require you to register in that country for taxation purposes.

Totally incorrect.
Whilst in the EU & still in force for all other member states it is 90 consecutive days & yo become a "resident" Some states require yo to register your residency bt even if they don't in the event of problems you would be treated as one.In states were they require yo to register, Like Spain , Greece or Cyprus, you cannot be thrown out if you fail to register but the offence you are fined for is " failing to register"
You could leave after 89 days pop next door & return after 24 hors for another 89 days but you could not & cannot do 180 days straight off.
If yo stay 183 cumulative days in a calendar year you become "tax resident"
You can be tax resident without being a resident & vice -versa.

This has been raised before where some members have said that E.U. member states determine the limit that UK vehicles can stay in their country and not the E.U. I wrote to the E.U. on this matter and asked how long a UK vehicle could stay in the E.U. and they responded and directed me to the UK Gov. website. (My take on this was they either were in agreement with the UK law on this matter or they have no E.U. law covering this subject at all). The UK Gov website states a 12 Months limit providing vehicle is legal, i.e. taxed, MOT, insured and V5 available to show relevant authorities and this information can easily be accessed through a web search.
I have yet to see any official documentation from any E.U. country on what the limitations are for UK vehicles being in there country, only what some members are stating and I have read on here, for Romania its 3 months. As I have no plans to visit Romania for 3 months I have dismissed it.

& as i posted on the other thread the reply from the EU was specific in stating that national laws now took precedence over how long a Uk vehicle could be in a state.
Germany & Romania both use 90 days regardless of what passport the driver is using. I doubt that many other countries will be any different.
The UK government website is specific in its ability to state nothing that will upset the UK public. They will absolutely refuse to state anyting that will get ridicule heaped on them.

When I asked the same question of them at the same time as the EU they replied with mutiple different answers without stating anything whatsoever . Even when I sent them the direct EU reply stating that national laws cover the amount of time a UK vehicle is now allowed in the country they refused to reply.

 

[Red Sonja]

Totally incorrect.
Whilst in the EU & still in force for all other member states it is 90 consecutive days & yo become a "resident" Some states require yo to register your residency bt even if they don't in the event of problems you would be treated as one.In states were they require yo to register, Like Spain , Greece or Cyprus, you cannot be thrown out if you fail to register but the offence you are fined for is " failing to register"
You could leave after 89 days pop next door & return after 24 hors for another 89 days but you could not & cannot do 180 days straight off.
If yo stay 183 cumulative days in a calendar year you become "tax resident"
You can be tax resident without being a resident & vice -versa.

& as i posted on the other thread the reply from the EU was specific in stating that national laws now took precedence over how long a Uk vehicle could be in a state.
Germany & Romania both use 90 days regardless of what passport the driver is using. I doubt that many other countries will be any different.
The UK government website is specific in its ability to state nothing that will upset the UK public. They will absolutely refuse to state anyting that will get ridicule heaped on them.

When I asked the same question of them at the same time as the EU they replied with mutiple different answers without stating anything whatsoever . Even when I sent them the direct EU reply stating that national laws cover the amount of time a UK vehicle is now allowed in the country they refused to reply.

Thanks for the info. So I could go to France for 89 days then move to Portugal for 89 days and then Spain for 89 if I wish (Irish passport holder). All I need to check is my Motorhome Insurance. For info I don't intend to do this but hypothetically I could.

 

[Beast]

Anyone planning to overwinter in Villasol this coming winter ? We have put down a deposit on a plot and plan to stay there for 90 days plus.

As an aside and for those who might be interested. Villasol offer two rates for those on long stay and at present these are as follows.

Rate 1. ACSI @ €20.0 plus 4 Kw of free lecce per day. (Then at €0.41 per Kw).

Rate 2. €17.00 per day. Lecce 0.41Kw.

According to Villasol office staff, Rate 2 is the better option if staying for more than two months. The key being the amount of lecce you use. They were reluctant to give me the average usage (or a ball park figure) for a couple in a motorhome, overwintering on their site.

Would be interested to know where will the permanent camper go after 90 days especially those with permanent converted pitches. Thxs

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[Clive Mott]

We looked at Vilasol when on a ride out on our motorbike from Camping Javea. For us Vilasol is too close to many things we try and stay away from so prefer Camping Javea. A much more relaxed area.

 

[Clive Mott]

Need to add 90 days max in any running 180 days is the max you can stay as a visitor and this applies to the whole of Europe as one.

 

[gwyntaxi]

Thanks for that ! €70.0 for 6 weeks is around €12.0 per week. Assuming you had the heating on first thing in the morning and then again after the sun went down, I think that's outstanding. My plan is to get a free/used/cheap empty12KG propane bottle, swap it for a full one and use for the fridge and cooking. I will bring along an oil fired radiator which we have used before when overwintering in Spain and use first thing in the morning for a couple/few hours and then again in the evening, as a way of keeping our energy costs under control. To be honest, I'm expecting to pay a lot more for our electricity consumption and will have a better idea of what to expect after a week or so as I will just read our meter and work out costs myself. If its anywhere near €70 a month I'll be more than satisfied. Hopefully, this coming winter will be one of the good ones and Covid will not prevent travelling. Thanks again for your input !

I ha usually stayed further South in winter over the past 27 years and always found it a little in Benidorm where we used to calling for a couple of weeks on our return journey north, however we found it more economical to run our fridge (the tall one separate freezer) on gas as I was surprised on one stay at San Antonio how much it cost just using our fudge on ehu as we had a problem with the gas ignition system, and ever since have always run it on gas even on the rare occasions that we are on hook it is by far the biggest consumer.

 

[gwyntaxi]

We only pay 12€ a night incl leccy where we stop

Where is that then please.

 

[gwyntaxi]

We came back to the UK yesterday via tunnel after spending 89 days in France . The French customs officer reminded us of the 90 day rule and congratulated us for maxing the allowance this trip
.I asked him about the overstaying fine and I’m sure he said it was €160 eachnot per day) ! to me that sounds like a bargain

That sounds a reasonable price (fine) for an overstay (extension?) it’s what accompanies it that bothers me e.g. the future ban from entering the Schengen zone for X amount of winters.

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