Will This Be A Nail In The Coffin Of The Note 5 Before It Hits The Shelves

[olley]

Well it seems, going from some of the posts here, that MS has many cartloads of money selling a terrible, crap, no good, wouldn't give it house room OS that sold to most of the computers in the world for the last however many years. And of course made Mr Gates soooooooooo RICH!!!

Well let me tell you folks, wish I could sell crap like that

Well one thing I think you will have to admit, is their marketing department is probably the best in the world.

Ian

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Wise man once said, becoming a millionaire is very, very, easy......The hard part is getting the idea!! As you say "Lightbulb moment", some light bulb to sell that much "Crap".

I would even call it clever

The product isn't clever, it isn't even original. Everything they ever "innovated" had already been released by others, usually Apple, at least a year previously. It seems to take their tech people that long to reverse engineer a product and change it just enough to avoid copyright lawsuits.

The only clever thing they have ever done is to bully and manipulate their way to a virtual monopoly over the desktop market. They have no need to produce a decent product when a majority of people are stuck with it no matter what. As soon as they faced genuine competition, in the mobile market, they were badly found out.

 

[Billy23]

The product isn't clever, it isn't even original. Everything they ever "innovated" had already been released by others, usually Apple, at least a year previously. It seems to take their tech people that long to reverse engineer a product and change it just enough to avoid copyright lawsuits.

The only clever thing they have ever done is to bully and manipulate their way to a virtual monopoly over the desktop market. They have no need to produce a decent product when a majority of people are stuck with it no matter what. As soon as they faced genuine competition, in the mobile market, they were badly found out.

He/they may have done all of the things that you have posted........BUT!

I DIDN'T say the OS was clever, I DID say that to sell that much CRAP (not good, wonderful, or great) and get it onto most of the worlds computers WAS clever.

 

[olley]

Maybe it was clever, or maybe the opposition was crap as well.

Ian

 

[Billy23]

Maybe it was clever, or maybe the opposition was crap as well.

Ian

I think both would be correct. Although I would question Maybe

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[Gromett]

I have loaded Linux of different flavours over the years Gromett and couldn't see any advantage. I even ran a cut down version on a small tablet, and it was fine for that, as I think it totalled around 500mb unlike windows 1 gig plus, but memory is not an issue anymore.
I have a computer that works, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Ian

I have loaded lots over the years. Always "forced" back to windows until about 2 years ago. I finally got rid of Apple iTunes (removed the DRM). This was the last thing stopping me going 100% linux. The flavour I use is Linux Mint XFCE edition. It has no fancies or pretties, it has no clevers either. It is just a rock solid basic OS that gets out of your way. It also handles Hi DPI screens properly unlike windows which still can't get that right. The updater is centralised so you get one little notification at the bottom right of the screen and no interruptions to your work. It doesn't update then expect me to reboot 1,2,3 or more times. It doesn't require me to reboot after installing new software. Updates are in the kb size range or low Mb not 150Mb+ so updating when away from wifi is not an issue. The browser doesn't crash or freeze up. Thunderbird lets me reply to emails immediately. My spreadsheet loads almost instantly instead of buggering around for 12 seconds. When I click shutdown I don't have to wait 20-30 seconds for it to close down before I can pack my laptop up. Nothing is hidden from me, there is a proper menu system, there is no metro nonsense, The search facility doesn't index at the most inopportune time and slow the computer down. The list goes on and on and on.

There are literally 100's of little niggles with windows that don't need to happen. Linux has one or two niggles but no where near what Windows has. I really can't stay on windows as it is a daily fight not to lose my temper and lob the damn thing out the window.

If you can cope with all that then cool. But seriously it doesn't have to be that bad. MS could fix all these little niggles in one release and have a pretty good OS.

 

[Billy23]

I have loaded lots over the years. Always "forced" back to windows until about 2 years ago. I finally got rid of Apple iTunes (removed the DRM). This was the last thing stopping me going 100% linux. The flavour I use is Linux Mint XFCE edition. It has no fancies or pretties, it has no clevers either. It is just a rock solid basic OS that gets out of your way. It also handles Hi DPI screens properly unlike windows which still can't get that right. The updater is centralised so you get one little notification at the bottom right of the screen and no interruptions to your work. It doesn't update then expect me to reboot 1,2,3 or more times. It doesn't require me to reboot after installing new software. Updates are in the kb size range or low Mb not 150Mb+ so updating when away from wifi is not an issue. The browser doesn't crash or freeze up. Thunderbird lets me reply to emails immediately. My spreadsheet loads almost instantly instead of buggering around for 12 seconds. When I click shutdown I don't have to wait 20-30 seconds for it to close down before I can pack my laptop up. Nothing is hidden from me, there is a proper menu system, there is no metro nonsense, The search facility doesn't index at the most inopportune time and slow the computer down. The list goes on and on and on.

There are literally 100's of little niggles with windows that don't need to happen. Linux has one or two niggles but no where near what Windows has. I really can't stay on windows as it is a daily fight not to lose my temper and lob the damn thing out the window.

If you can cope with all that then cool. But seriously it doesn't have to be that bad. MS could fix all these little niggles in one release and have a pretty good OS.

I must agree with you, one thing that might come out of the fact that Linux is gaining ground, is that MS will indeed make the changes necessary to make it a brilliant OS, I think they are making the first step when they say this is the last Windows, from Win 10 it will be a rolling update every month or so to improve what they have, so no 3/4 year wait....Time will tell.

 

[DBK]

I don't see Linux as a system for the general public yet. I made a serious attempt to use it but perhaps being too used to windows I just couldn't get on with it. The version I had (Red Hat) looked superficially like windows by there the similarities ended. The button to close windows is on the "wrong" side, no doubt just to show they are different to windows. I know you can change it by downloading a program but why should you? Then it doesn't use drive letters C drive, G drive etc. Stick a USB stick in and it just sees it as a different file system which threw me and I never could access the DVD drive. You shouldn't have to use the command line in a modern operating system but I found it essential.

The applications were also unsophisticated, they worked but that was it and I found slide shows saved in PowerPoint format to use on another PC were often badley formatted.

It is a good project and hats off to those developing it - but no cigar yet. A great system for computer geeks but not for me. Windows isn't perfect but I can live with its foibles.

 

[Gromett]

Redhat would be my last choice for a desktop OS. It is designed to be a very basic but stable and secure OS for the corporate world. Generally used for running their own software.

The button being on the wrong side happens in some distributions of Linux but not many. Linux is not just one operating system. It is just the Kernel or the heart of the OS. On top of this you have the Desktop enviroment and there are almost 100 of these. The most popular being KDE, Gnome, XFCE and Unity amongst others. Unity is one of those that have played around with how things are done and I find it unusable but people coming from tablets love it.

As for why should you change anything. Well, because you can. With Linux there is no master controller who tells you how things should be done. If you don't like something you don't have to hope Microsoft will change it. You just install a bit of software to do it for you.

As for Drive letters. I hate those bloody things. I have 5 hard drives in my main computer and sometimes up to 4 USB drives not to mention DVD player and mountable ISO's. if I had to rely on drive letters I would never know which one was which and would end up saving stuff to the wrong place. With linux like most sensible OS's you can mount the new hard drive or USB stick wherever you want in the file system tree. On mine I have 3 mount points.
/USB
/Media
/mnt

As an example. I have a couple of 4TB hard disks. One has TV programs on it another films. I also have smaller hard disks which have my books, music and lecture videos. These are mounted as
/Media/TV HDD1
/Media/Films HDD2
/Media/Books HDD3
/Media/Music HDD3 etc etc

I then have links in my file manager that shortcut TV -> /Media/TV for example.

This is much better than having to remember that my books are on Drive F: this time and in a subdirectory called Books. The linux method means that all my files are within one filing system not across random drives identified by a single letter. Once you get used to it being different going back to drive letters is a ballache.

The DVD access issue was probably a restriction in Redhat or a driver issue. You can get these on Windows as well.

As for Powerpoint not working. When that software dies I will be so happy . That is actually an issue of interoperability between software and nothing to do with Linux. You would have had the same problem operating on 2 different windows system and going from MS Office to say OpenOffice or even across two different versions of Office.

I will be speaking to Jim about the following to check it is ok. But I am hoping to bring some Linux laptops to the Stratford show.

 

[olley]

Gromett you are not a casual user, your niggles are from a geek, not joe public. How many of us have and need 2, 4 terabyte disks? I have 1, 2 terabyte, and even with four hundred films and 7000 books is only half full. For joe public windows is good, but obviously not for a geek.

Ian

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[mariner]

IMHO the Windows OS is flawed, always has been and always will be.

MS needed to completely re-design their OS, start again, but they won't and so they will not become a major player in smart phones.
I have a number of friends who have given MS Nokia a go and their contracts are now about to end.

Not one of them will stay with MS and most are looking at getting the iPhone 6 and the others, the new Samsung Edge.

If that's an example of what is happening around the world then MS Nokia are doomed.

Look what has happened to Blackberry, who also failed to keep up.

 

[Deleted34567]

Gromett you are not a casual user, your niggles are from a geek, not joe public. How many of us have and need 2, 4 terabyte disks? I have 1, 2 terabyte, and even with four hundred films and 7000 books is only half full. For joe public windows is good, but obviously not for a geek.

Ian

Bit harsh Olley @Gromett being 'geeky'.. He is correct on his assumptions but he has an in depth knowledge being an IT person. Linux is not an OS for everyday punters, it could be but won't become 'mainstream'.... not yet anyway.
I'm not a user of Linux, but have a fundamental knowledge of the systems and how they work. I use windows on my main system, use windows on over 20 PC's that are networked and utilise stock and accounting systems in the business..... why?
Because that was what was there from early on, from windows 3.1 onwards, thru 95/98/mil/2000/vista/XP/7....... We have nothing running win 8 or won't have either. It was because the software we use was developed for windows.... no other reason.
But that's where it ends, everything else is Apple and possibly the phone will be android next. Microsoft just don't have it on their mobile platforms and nearly everyone I've talked to who use it went back to iOS or android. Afraid MS is dead in the water as far as the phone/tablet market go.

 

[Gromett]

Gromett you are not a casual user, your niggles are from a geek, not joe public. How many of us have and need 2, 4 terabyte disks? I have 1, 2 terabyte, and even with four hundred films and 7000 books is only half full. For joe public windows is good, but obviously not for a geek.

Ian

I was responding to your niggles with Linux.

My niggles with windows are serious ones for productivity. The biggest being the constant nagging screens to update windows, flash, java to name a few. It seems almost constant at times and you have to reboot between each one.

The fact that Firefox gets it's knickers in a twist on windows but works for days on ends without having to be reloaded in Linux is not a geek complaint.

The fact that windows can't handle hi dpi screens is a serious one. Trying to click a tiny tiny button on an otherwise normally sized window is just ridiculous. Apple and Linux have been able to handle this for years.

The fact that to view a pdf I am dragged into some weird other screen based system then literally have to touch my screen to get the normal screen back. The fact that the top corner, bottom two corners both pop up strange and unwanted extra interface items gets in the way of normal work.

Why do I have to wait 30-40 seconds for the computer to switch off even when no programs are running?

Sorry I don't think any of my complaints are geeky in the slighest. And no I am not offended by being called a geek.

BTW; Linux is being used by an awful lot of people who are not geeks. Lots of people are installing it on their parents and grandparents computers to save support calls. The most recent distributions are as good as windows/Mac from a usability point of view if not better.

 

[buttons]

Gromett you are not a casual user, your niggles are from a geek, not joe public. How many of us have and need 2, 4 terabyte disks? I have 1, 2 terabyte, and even with four hundred films and 7000 books is only half full. For joe public windows is good, but obviously not for a geek.

Ian

Cant disagree with any of that olley, geek is a good description for linux users. They tend to use Linux as status to give them an edge over us lesser folk. Windows has always given me everything that I need both at home and work and from what I see of windows 10 I think MS will stay top of the pops for some time into the future......Now Windows 10 on a fabulous phone and Phablet has got to be a future winner.

 

[Gromett]

Cant disagree with any of that olley, geek is a good description for linux users. They tend to use Linux as status to give them an edge over us lesser folk. Windows has always given me everything that I need both at home and work and from what I see of windows 10 I think MS will stay top of the pops for some time into the future......Now Windows 10 on a fabulous phone and Phablet has got to be a future winner.

What a load of tosh. I don't use Linux as a status thing, I certainly don't see anyone as lesser due to their use of a specific OS.. Really weak argument there Buttons I expect better from you.

I use Linux because it does what I want it to do, The install I use is more like XP than Windows 8 is. It harks back to simpler times where the computer does what you tell it to do and no more. I do not choose it because of what other people think or to look clever. I use it because it is simpler.

On your to your predictions. Well mine are that Microsoft will never take any reasonable share of the mobile market phone or tablet. I also predict that windows share of the desktop market will continue to fall and within 10 years the desktop market will be a fraction of the mobile market.

Windows is only continuing to retain as much market share as it is through inertia. Over the next 10 years or so I predict as people get used to using non windows tablets, phones and other devices they will be more likely to look at other OS's for their desktops and laptops.

Recent stats I saw was that Windows had gone from 95% of the market to 90% in the last 3 years. In that same time Linux has gone from less than 1% to just over 2%. The big problem is that Linux usage can't be accurately measured because it is free to download and use. Each sale of a Windows license is counted. A dual booted laptop will only be counted as a windows system because that is what it was sold with.

Oh and one last point. If you are using an Android device you are running Linux.....

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[Gromett]

Just in case anyone is interested. Here is a video of what I am using currently.

 

[buttons]

What a load of tosh. I don't use Linux as a status thing, I certainly don't see anyone as lesser due to their use of a specific OS.. Really weak argument there Buttons I expect better from you.

I use Linux because it does what I want it to do, The install I use is more like XP than Windows 8 is. It harks back to simpler times where the computer does what you tell it to do and no more. I do not choose it because of what other people think or to look clever. I use it because it is simpler.

On your to your predictions. Well mine are that Microsoft will never take any reasonable share of the mobile market phone or tablet. I also predict that windows share of the desktop market will continue to fall and within 10 years the desktop market will be a fraction of the mobile market.

Windows is only continuing to retain as much market share as it is through inertia. Over the next 10 years or so I predict as people get used to using non windows tablets, phones and other devices they will be more likely to look at other OS's for their desktops and laptops.

Recent stats I saw was that Windows had gone from 95% of the market to 90% in the last 3 years. In that same time Linux has gone from less than 1% to just over 2%. The big problem is that Linux usage can't be accurately measured because it is free to download and use. Each sale of a Windows license is counted. A dual booted laptop will only be counted as a windows system because that is what it was sold with.

Oh and one last point. If you are using an Android device you are running Linux.....

Hi Gromett
My post was obviously slightly tongue in cheek but with an element of what I see as truth, the fact that bungy is also a linux fan gives some support to this. My son is also a bit of a geek and yes he has linux too as an option on his pc but he is also very impressed with windows 10.
Android...not a great advocate of that either but I do have to suffer it on my Samsung bits. Not for too much longer though if this new windows phablet proves to be as good as predicted.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I had to spend some time using a Windows 8 machine today. The first time in a long time I've had to use anything other than OS X for any length of time. I'd forgotten just how bad Windows is, it's horribly clunky to use, assumes you don't know what you're doing, is incredibly slow and as @Gromett says you are constantly plagued by splash windows to update pointless crap and have to reboot every 5 minutes.

I felt a real sense of relief when I could switch the stupid thing off and get back to my Mac.

 

[Judge Mental]

I had to spend some time using a Windows 8 machine today. The first time in a long time I've had to use anything other than OS X for any length of time. I'd forgotten just how bad Windows is, it's horribly clunky to use, assumes you don't know what you're doing, is incredibly slow and as @Gromett says you are constantly plagued by splash windows to update pointless crap and have to reboot every 5 minutes.

I felt a real sense of relief when I could switch the stupid thing off and get back to my Mac.

Imagine how I feel when I dont know what I'm doing!

 

[sdc77]

For a second there I thought someone was bigging up osx.. Lol..
And although I'm not huge windows fan.. Most of the huge data breaches that have occurred recently have been via Linux based servers...
Windows works.. It has a huge software base and nothing really gets close in the real world for familiarity and usability on a home or work computer.

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[Gromett]

Most of the huge data breaches that have occurred recently have been via Linux based servers...

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Windows works

usability

 

[Gromett]

Most of the huge data breaches that have occurred recently have been via Linux based servers...

@sdc77 Were you serious or trolling?

 

[Gromett]

Sorry but windows does work and it is usable if you don't know any better.
If someone driving an old ford model T to get around for 10 years hadn't tried a modern car he would be happy with it. It is only after trying something new and going back to the old that you can see the faults in it. Linux did have usability issues for a long long time and these still stick in peoples memory but Linux has come on a long way very very fast on the desktop. You only have to compare old version of android to new ones to see how fast a user interface can be developed to be good.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Linux has come on so quickly and so well because of the open source development in the same way that the open source products available on the Windows platform generally far outstrip Microsoft's equivalent offerings. Firefox springs to mind as an obvious example.

Each version of Windows seems to be rushed out without being debugged properly. You're right I suppose that it works if you don't know any better but once you try something else.....

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[bungy]

Hi Gromett
My post was obviously slightly tongue in cheek but with an element of what I see as truth, the fact that bungy is also a linux fan gives some support to this. My son is also a bit of a geek and yes he has linux too as an option on his pc but he is also very impressed with windows 10.
Android...not a great advocate of that either but I do have to suffer it on my Samsung bits. Not for too much longer though if this new windows phablet proves to be as good as predicted.

Linux as in android yes...but im not a 'real' linux user, but thanks for putting me in the same league as Gromett...as incorrect as that is...even though he does think I look like the creator of linux!!!

 

[Gromett]

Well you do look a little like Linus at first glance

 

[sdc77]

@sdc77 Were you serious or trolling?

I'm sorry but if you don't know then I need say no more

Windows biggest weakness is its popularity and diversity.
Linux is a choice most choose not to make... Not because it's bad.. It just doesn't suit them

 

[Gromett]

I'm sorry but if you don't know then I need say no more

I do know or should know. Until February I ran a hosting company and kept up with all security issues as a matter of necessity. I cannot recall the last time I heard of a breach caused by Linux. All the largest breaches over the last 3 years that I recall such as Target, Staples etc have all been due to bugs in Windows generally using tools such as BlackPOS.

If you can show me even one major breach attributable to a security issue in Linux I will publicly apologise to you and if I meet you at a show give you a beer.

I was also responsible for the PCI/DSS status of my company a job I took extremely seriously.

 

[DBK]

I do know or should know. Until February I ran a hosting company and kept up with all security issues as a matter of necessity. I cannot recall the last time I heard of a breach caused by Linux. All the largest breaches over the last 3 years that I recall such as Target, Staples etc have all been due to bugs in Windows generally using tools such as BlackPOS.

If you can show me even one major breach attributable to a security issue in Linux I will publicly apologise to you and if I meet you at a show give you a beer.

I was also responsible for the PCI/DSS status of my company a job I took extremely seriously.

Bit disingenuous Grommet. With Linux being only less than 2% of the market, why would anyone bother to target it? I'm discounting android from that figure as it has I believe the largest share of any OS if you count all devices, including mobile phones, but I'm not sure Google would agree it is Linux - only the kernal is and that seems to be drifting away from the rest of the Linux community.

And I learned my first computing on a mainframe which spoke Fortran - so I am really up to date on these things!

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