Wild camping in Scotland

[Northernraider]

Yes, it is a fallacious argument. For the one public toilet that has a cassette emptied into it, that’s nine public toilets that they didn’t visit. There would only be a problem if you had an extreme statistical anomaly that resulted in a single toilet attracting a skewed number of toilet dumpers rather than them being distributed across the available public toilets.

BTW, I am not advocating this practice but rather pointing out the fallacy of the argument blaming cassette emptiers for filling septic tanks.

A further argument that I don’t agree with/understand is the oft repeated claim that cassette dumpers cause blockages. In my experience, the only thing that comes out of our cassette is liquid and I’ve yet to see a liquid cause a blockage. Is this another fallacious argument or is the typical content of my cassette anomalous?

Ian

I think its just another thing they can blame on campervans because it suits them to restrict parking etc.

Many places where campers are now banned and height barriers installed etc still have big problems with rubbish and toilet paper ,wipes etc but they don't ban the day trippers as it doesn't suit them.

Even some of the schemes now running in the uk insist a camper has its own toilet etc but thinks people who drive cars somehow dont pee or poo.

 

[weemalkie]

Loads of places offer facilities in Scotland, a small charge at some but free at others. Scotland is beginning to recognise what value we are as tourists. Just respect the locals, drive thoughtfully on single track roads and everyone will benefit in the long term.

Agree totally. Respect for the area and locals is paramount. The Highlands and Islands are very fragile environments which no matter what simply just cant accommodate the volumes of visiting motorhomes. Facilities are improving which is brilliant but 'wild camping' in a motorhome is still illegal- although tolerated unlike in other parts of the UK.

 

[KimSteve]

I see everyone commenting on this are southerners.

Mmmmm, you lot stay in your own patch, and let us Highlanders worry about whether to stop somewhere for the night.

That's harsh, I'm guessing you don't travel further south than Hadrian's.

 

[pelican]

It does when a Motorhomer is actually referring to off-grid parking when using the term ‘wild camping’. Too many folks assign the SOAC definition of wild camping to Motorhomers using the term in a different manner.

Ian

I always understood that wild camping was the reserve of backpackers.
Not someone in a motorhome thinking it made him "macho motorhome man"

 

[bigtwin]

I always understood that wild camping was the reserve of backpackers.
Not someone in a motorhome thinking it made him macho motorhome man.

I’m not sure if you’re agreeing, or disagreeing, with me.

Ian

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[Northernraider]

I find it best to accept the term used for an action by someone who does the action and not some government or police body.

Therefore if the many thousands of people in camper vans and motorhomes call what they do wildcamping then its wildcamping.

What some pillock sat in an office with very little knowledge or experience of the real world doesn't really have a clue.

Anything that is not on a recognised official campsite is wild camping whether it involves a bicycle , a motorbike, car , van or a bleeding horse.

I would guess that camping on foot is probably the least likely these days . Most will drive somewhere and leave a vehicle somewhere.

 

[Bobbydaisy]

That's harsh, I'm guessing you don't travel further south than Hadrian's.

Think his comment is a bit tongue in cheek , probably lives in Milton Keynes , and incorrect about all Southerns commenting , me for one and a few others clearly from Scotland and possibly the Highlands.

 

[Two of usI]

Its not only in Scotland, I was parked up on a road, beautiful setting just outside Milford on Sea and this old couple stopped outside my van and at a volume all could hear asked his wife 'why do we allow these people to park here ?? and we should be charging them' !!

 

[bobnick]

My take on "Wildcamping" is parking where there are no facilities whatsoever other than what you carry no matter how you carry it, oh and costa nowt to park.
But then again i'm a novice so what do i know.

 

[The Lobster]

Many locals are not in favour of Council money being used for the sole benefit of tourists.

However, CampRA have a fund available for this purpose.

Ian

Who are these "many locals"? Many locals are in favour of encouraging tourists to visit and understand that having a tourist infrastructure takes investment. That's why Highland Council is spending £m's upgrading infrastructure for motorhomes.

£1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved

£1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved - £1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved

www.highland.gov.uk

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[The Lobster]

Agree totally. Respect for the area and locals is paramount. The Highlands and Islands are very fragile environments which no matter what simply just cant accommodate the volumes of visiting motorhomes. Facilities are improving which is brilliant but 'wild camping' in a motorhome is still illegal- although tolerated unlike in other parts of the UK.

"cant accommodate the volumes of visiting motorhomes" - rubbish. The Highlands is a huge land area that has a very low population density. There are a small number of easily avoided hot spots, but for everywhere else this demonstrably isn't true. Wild camping by definition means using a tent, so you can't illegally wild camp in a motorhome. Sleeping overnight on a public road is perfectly legal.

 

[bigtwin]

Who are these "many locals"? Many locals are in favour of encouraging tourists to visit and understand that having a tourist infrastructure takes investment. That's why Highland Council is spending £m's upgrading infrastructure for motorhomes.

£1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved

£1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved - £1.5M further investment in Visitor management approved

www.highland.gov.uk

There are a number of anti-NC500 groups on Facebook where you’ll find the folks I’m referring to. They also infiltrate and pop up on the normal NC500 groups too.

I agree that many highlanders, and the council too, are pro tourism.

Ian

 

[IrasciBill]

Bloody hell who gave you the Captains hat? Everybody is entitled to do what they what, that’s a very picky comment, and you can put your impolite term in your uncooled fridge,

Is that not part of the problem,Wabs ? Everyone is NOT entitled to do what they want ! The sooner that everyone has respect and consideration for everyone else, the sooner we will all achieve what we are really entitled to.

 

[The Lobster]

There are a number of anti-NC500 groups on Facebook where you’ll find the folks I’m referring to. They also infiltrate and pop up on the normal NC500 groups too.

I agree that many highlanders, and the council too, are pro tourism.

Ian

There are always a small number with extreme views about anything, who generally get quite noisy. Best ignored. They make good copy for the media but councils tend to take a consensus approach.

 

[bigtwin]

Sleeping overnight on a public road is perfectly legal.

That fact is something that took the anti-NC500 mob a long time to acknowledge.

It still doesn’t stop them trotting out references to the SOAC (with its references to motorised transport) when most Motorhomers have no intention of exercising the rights afforded by the Land Reform Act. It does however allow them an opportunity to display their indignation at perfectly law abiding tourists.

Ian

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[The Lobster]

That fact is something that took the anti-NC500 mob a long time to acknowledge.

It still doesn’t stop them trotting out references to the SOAC (with its references to motorised transport) when most Motorhomers have no intention of exercising the rights afforded by the Land Reform Act. It does however allow them an opportunity to display their indignation at perfectly law abiding tourists.

Ian

Agreed. And actually nothing to stop motorhomers taking a tent. Lots of people with campervans do this. Then disappear into the hills using the van as a base, either walking or with their hill cycles. Great way to explore the more distant parts (i.e. most of the Highlands).

 

[Ballsy66]

Just yesterday I went drove by a lay-by near me and out the corner of my eye I saw the guy with the Motorhome removing his toilet cassette, by the time I turned round and got back there he had dumped his waste and gone. These are the people who cause problems and spoil it for the rest of us and we all need to call them out otherwise we will all suffer and overnight parking will end up being banned everywhere other than official places.

Grrrrr

 

[Dogstoat]

The fact of the matter is that you can park your motorhome overnight virtually anywhere in England & Wales and it is NOT illegal to do so as long as you are causing no obstruction.

If you do this on the public highway and your vehicle is taxed, MOT'd and insured then you can stay there for as long as you wish - even the Police have no power to move you on - but what will happen is that eventually the Local Authority will seek a court order 'reclaiming that particular part of the highway from misuse' because highways are not designed to be 'lived on' in the long term.

If you park on private land - again you commit no criminal offence - the landowner must go to court and secure an eviction order.

If you park anywhere for only a couple of days and don't make excessive noise or any mess then you are hardly likely to suffer any interference from anyone anyway....because by the time they realise that you're there...you'll be gone.

The Police will sometimes respond to complaints and invoke the 'barbed wire act' ...i.e. suggest that they have powers that they do not actually possess, and tell you that you have to move. If you stand your ground, assure the Officer that you will make no mess and that you intend to leave within a couple of days...they will retreat and leave you to your own devices.

I won't go into details but I am a retired 30 year Police Officer who still works with local government in certain areas of trespass.

I am NOT in any way suggesting that motorhome owners should be deliberately confrontational or behave in an anti-social manner. I am simply explaining that the myth about the alleged crime of 'wild camping' as it is termed, is just that...a myth.

 

[Ballsy66]

Great info! Thanks

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

I see everyone commenting on this are southerners.

Mmmmm, you lot stay in your own patch, and let us Highlanders worry about whether to stop somewhere for the night.

Mmmmm......this Southerner has lived in 'You're' patch for 18 years AND I was imported by one of you're fellow Scot's.

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[Wabs]

Is that not part of the problem,Wabs ? Everyone is NOT entitled to do what they want ! The sooner that everyone has respect and consideration for everyone else, the sooner we will all achieve what we are really entitled to.

I get that,, what I should have said,, is everyone is entitled to their own choices,,I would never condone all the weird sh*t that people do, but as you say,, have respect,,

 

[Wabs]

Mmmmm......this Southerner has lived in 'You're' patch for 18 years AND I was imported by one of you're fellow Scot's.

I agree, and this southerner has spent more money in Scotland than I ever have anywhere else,,,

 

[peterc10]

The fact of the matter is that you can park your motorhome overnight virtually anywhere in England & Wales and it is NOT illegal to do so as long as you are causing no obstruction.

If you do this on the public highway and your vehicle is taxed, MOT'd and insured then you can stay there for as long as you wish - even the Police have no power to move you on - but what will happen is that eventually the Local Authority will seek a court order 'reclaiming that particular part of the highway from misuse' because highways are not designed to be 'lived on' in the long term.

If you park on private land - again you commit no criminal offence - the landowner must go to court and secure an eviction order.

If you park anywhere for only a couple of days and don't make excessive noise or any mess then you are hardly likely to suffer any interference from anyone anyway....because by the time they realise that you're there...you'll be gone.

The Police will sometimes respond to complaints and invoke the 'barbed wire act' ...i.e. suggest that they have powers that they do not actually possess, and tell you that you have to move. If you stand your ground, assure the Officer that you will make no mess and that you intend to leave within a couple of days...they will retreat and leave you to your own devices.

I won't go into details but I am a retired 30 year Police Officer who still works with local government in certain areas of trespass.

I am NOT in any way suggesting that motorhome owners should be deliberately confrontational or behave in an anti-social manner. I am simply explaining that the myth about the alleged crime of 'wild camping' as it is termed, is just that...a myth.

So we can park on double yellows?

Yes you can park anywhere on public roads UNLESS the local authority has used the local bylaws to place restrictions on parking in that place. No longer a police matter but you can still get fined and towed off.

 

[Tony50]

I agree, and this southerner has spent more money in Scotland than I ever have anywhere else,,,

Also the English, and probably Welsh, and Northern Ireland's populations pay taxes so Scotland get more money per head of population from Central Government than we do !!

 

[poppycamper]

Also the English, and probably Welsh, and Northern Ireland's populations pay taxes so Scotland get more money per head of population from Central Government than we do !!

You sound a wee bit bitter..

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[Tony50]

You sound a wee bit bitter..

No certainly not We feel in this small island we/ all of us should be able to travel with out comments like "Southerners" As if we are different human beings to some, you are quite welcome to come to East Anglia

 

[Stealaway]

Yes you can park anywhere on public roads UNLESS the local authority has used the local bylaws to place restrictions on parking in that place. No longer a police matter but you can still get fined and towed off.

How legal are the 'No sleeping overnight' signs you see in laybys.
Will there be a local bylaw in place for those and what would be the result of ignoring it?
Will they have printed a list of fines some where or will they implement a possession orders for non compliance?
Would they clamp the vehicle in a layby or tow it away as they would if parked on double yellow lines?

It could all seems a bit heavy handed for tourists simply spending the night in a layby. Where the harm?

 

[peterc10]

How legal are the 'No sleeping overnight' signs you see in laybys.
Will there be a local bylaw in place for those and what would be the result of ignoring it?
Will they have printed a list of fines some where or will they implement a possession orders for non compliance?
Would they clamp the vehicle in a layby or tow it away as they would if parked on double yellow lines?

It could all seems a bit heavy handed for tourists simply spending the night in a layby. Where the harm?

The answer to all of these questions will be found in the local by laws. I understand that they vary.

All I was doing was suggesting that there are impediments in England at least to the suggestion that you can park anywhere you want.

 

[poppycamper]

No certainly not We feel in this small island we/ all of us should be able to travel with out comments like "Southerners" As if we are different human beings to some, you are quite welcome to come to East Anglia

So why then say. "pay taxes so Scotland get more money per head of population from Central Government than we do"
If as you indicate we are all in it together?

 

[bigtwin]

So why then say. "pay taxes so Scotland get more money per head of population from Central Government than we do"
If as you indicate we are all in it together?

Probably because it’s a fact and doesn’t carry any negative undertones and seemed a reasonable response to a comment that did have negative undertones.

Ian

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