Wild camping illegal after June 2021?

[two]

I even avoid them when working if possible, they usually stink

If you avoid them, how do you know?

 

[davidbaldam]

Hi and welcome to FUN.

 

[Ivory55]

If you avoid them, how do you know?

Experience has taught me in the past. Haha

 

[TDub49]

Good summary here - what happens post this nasty piece of legislation coming in to force will depend as much on the view of the landowner on whose land you are freebooting (sorry, "wilding") as it does on the local police . . . .

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www.trespass.com

 

[The Old Man]

So if I am driving motorhome, car or bike and I'm tired and pull over for a rest, as suggested by many road signs, I will be guilty of an offence?

So I continue driving, fall asleep at the wheel and cause a fatal accident my defence is...

I was compelled to keep driving by this othe new law?

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[Jim]

I think its the best bit of legislation for years.

 

[Jim]

I will be guilty of an offence?

No you won't. You commit the offience if you refuse to move from someones property when asked. So for law abiding people the bill brings no change at all. If you generally refuse to move when parked on someone's land, then look out, this law will help them evict you quickly.

 

[eddie]

Owning a campsite and having had a gypsy infestation I welcome the legislation with open arms.

 

[pappajohn]

If it comes to it you won't be fined, you'll firstly be told to move.... If you don't, then you'll be fined.

 

[Stealaway]

I even avoid them when working if possible, they usually stink

The one we was on next to Aberystwyth last Thursday night was lovely. Three other vans joined us for a chat.

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[chaser]

The one we was on next to Aberystwyth last Thursday night was lovely. Three other vans joined us for a chat.

Was that on the top road by the sea past the golf course, is it still there and free.

 

[Stealaway]

Friday night in the mountains above Aberystwyth. Just us and the sheep. The narrow road down the mountain was eventful but stunning.

 

[iandsm]

Oh, and it applies if you have (or intend to have) at least one vehicle. So it would apply to everybody, even if you were just a gathering of one!

What you may not appreciate is that even if the law is passed, and I think it will be, is that the police will not apply it unless there is reasons to do so, they will not go around looking for wild campers to move on just for fun and will apply the law using discretion. So if overnighting out of the way, cause no nuisance or interference to others including the public in general and landowners there will be no problem. On the other hand, turn up with ten others, light fires to burn old tyres and roast hedgehogs. Look out.

 

[Stealaway]

Another crappy layby in Wales last night.

FLT Rule OK.

 

[JP1889]

Hello everybody! Wow that was a quick response

Being a nerd, I read the actual wording and the key phrase seems to be “intent to reside”. But it seems that anyone staying for any length of time, regardless of them having an address elsewhere, could be prosecuted for “intent to reside”.

As described on page 68 of Broken Link Removed
“a person is to be considered as residing or having the intention to reside in a place even if that residence or intended residence is temporary, and a person may be regarded as residing or having an intention to reside in a place notwithstanding that the person has a home elsewhere.”

I would love to know what people think! I realise that we’re unlikely to get into trouble if we’re discreet and well-behaved but at the same time, it’s going to be made into a criminal offence and I couldn’t risk getting a criminal record because of work.

The bit I’m particularly worried about is “notwithstanding that the person has a home elsewhere.”

Any legal eagles out there? How could you prove no intent to reside? Seems like a Catch-22 situation where you could get into trouble just for being there.

Sadly so much of this thread and current events reminds of a country sleepwalking into Martin Niemoller's classic poem


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

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[Jim]

Sadly so much of this thread and current events reminds of a country sleepwalking into Martin Niemoller's classic poem

Its about time someone came for them. Best bit of legislation for years, just a decade too late.

 

[phase3begins]

Sadly so much of this thread and current events reminds of a country sleepwalking into Martin Niemoller's classic poem


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

are you serious?
using a poem about the deliberate mass murder of millions to make a point about the possibility of being moved on if parked illegally.

 

[grumps147]

Welcome to fun
You will find a lot of help and advice here from a mixed bunch with a huge range of backgrounds and almost as large variance in the type of home on wheels we have.
You will also find a few of us strange, we do actually pay for camping locations. There are those who also park up for free, but I have yet to hear from one who deliberately takes on a landowner when asked to leave. As has been said, that condition has to be fulfilled before the proposed law can be invoked. My guess is you will then be asked a second time when and if resources become available ahead of other more urgent incidents. I would further guess you will then get several more requests as part of a negotiation process before any criminal offence is actioned. All this time you are more likely than ever to be the subject of a body worn video recording your attempts to get yourself the criminal record you seemingly want to avoid. As for starting a campaign group or a branch of one here, I think you are going to waste some valuable time you could be using enjoying a nice spot somewhere remembering the take it all away with me concept.

 

[Clipgate]

Interesting that a senior police officer already has the powers required to remove "itinerant" people's.
Criminal sanctions obviously follow should a situation become enflamed. However how many itinerant travellers will be concerned about a criminal conviction, and in what name will it be recorded!
This legislation is very likely to effect the motorhome community, depending on the local forces direction of Political travel.
Gypsy travellers will be well represented by there in house lawyers, robustly defended will you be? A little light reading, ask yourself why a new law after.
Indeed this is not the only legislation.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

An Act to make further provision in relation to criminal justice (including employment in the prison service); to amend or extend the criminal law and powers for preventing crime and enforcing that law; to amend the Video Recordings Act 1984; and for purposes connected with those purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[Jim]

Interesting that a senior police officer already has the powers required to remove "itinerant" people's.
Criminal sanctions obviously follow should a situation become enflamed. However how many itinerant travellers will be concerned about a criminal conviction, and in what name will it be recorded!
This legislation is very likely to effect the motorhome community, depending on the local forces direction of Political travel.
Gypsy travellers will be well represented by there in house lawyers, robustly defended will you be? A little light reading, ask yourself why a new law after.
Indeed this is not the only legislation.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

An Act to make further provision in relation to criminal justice (including employment in the prison service); to amend or extend the criminal law and powers for preventing crime and enforcing that law; to amend the Video Recordings Act 1984; and for purposes connected with those purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Interesting, however In real world events the police are too quick to say its a civil matter offering no help at all, on the contrary, very often they are too quick to defend the rights of the trespasser.

As for asking if I will robustly be defended is neither here nor there. in 33 years of wildcamping I have never refused to move if asked by the landowner. If you refuse, you deserve to be nicked.

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[Alfie159]

This law is not being written (like most statutes ) as a blanket but to target nuisance gatherings. Whereby damage and crime etc is being caused. Sadly criminal gangs from all walks of life ‘travel’. Including those who protest and travel. They cannot write a law discriminating one particular group under ECHR which still is applicable post brexit. Statute guides and is to be interpreted by the courts as meant to be written. It’ll be about their behaviour or conduct that will be targeted. That’s how I read it. I agree with others this is not about those out to cause no harm or nuisance and simply wild camp and leave no damage and return to their real home

 

[Wack]

While they're allowed to be in the UK I don't see how this will change anything , if they camp and get moved on where do they go

20 years ago I used the deliver to the ERF factory in middlewich

The access road was about ¼ mile long , they were there all summer so when they left the council put double yellow lines down and concrete blocks on all the verges to stop them parking

Obviously they ignored the yellow lines but I did have to laugh at the stupidity of the council

The concrete blocks were water channels , the type used to divert a stream underground, hollow and exactly the right height for a table

I went one evening and they were all sat round them eating dinner

Last time I went there must've been some sort of inter traveller disagreement , one was smashed to bits with pickaxe holes all over it

 

[Jim]

While they're allowed to be in the UK I don't see how this will change anything , if they camp and get moved on where do they go

A campsite maybe, pay a pitch fee like any other fulltimer.

 

[eddie]

Interesting that a senior police officer already has the powers required to remove "itinerant" people's.
Criminal sanctions obviously follow should a situation become enflamed. However how many itinerant travellers will be concerned about a criminal conviction, and in what name will it be recorded!
This legislation is very likely to effect the motorhome community, depending on the local forces direction of Political travel.
Gypsy travellers will be well represented by there in house lawyers, robustly defended will you be? A little light reading, ask yourself why a new law after.
Indeed this is not the only legislation.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

An Act to make further provision in relation to criminal justice (including employment in the prison service); to amend or extend the criminal law and powers for preventing crime and enforcing that law; to amend the Video Recordings Act 1984; and for purposes connected with those purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

As someone who actually owns a campsite, who was infested with a Gypsy group, who because of my nature wouldn’t take things lying down, could not initially get the Police to do anything

However, after contacting the Home Secretary and my local MP the Chief Constable contacted, who in turn assigned an Inspector to deal with my complaint, and matters quickly we’re resolved, mainly as by this time the dirty gits (they all shit in the hedges) had moved on

The Act you quote, is no where near robust enough, and it’s trumped by subsequent legislation since.

Hence the need for the new law

Of course if ‘travellers’ wanted to pay their way, not steal everything not bolted down, didn’t threaten to ‘carve up my staff’ and pay for their stay, the legalisation probably wouldn’t be required

 

[Wissel]

I still can't see that the Police will do much (assuming this Bill passes) about, for instance, a group of travellers turning up on a village green and causing hell to local residents, or taking over a campsite and doing the same. They just don't have the numbers.

A group that I think will be severely effected are some "vanlifers". I'm not talking about people who choose to live fulltime in their van and are happy to pay for where they stay (this is what we do), I'm talking about the ones that would be homeless if they couldn't stay in their van.

I think this group will be easy targets.

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[Coolcats]

Locally there is a van on a grass verge with a full time resident. The van never moves one concern is where the heck does his (and it is a he) grey and black waste go? If he is digging holes in the farmers field to dispose of the black waste I suspect the farmer won’t be happy if he is chucking it in the canal there is another issue. This legislation will probably mean the council will use it to target this individual.

whilst I understand the annoyance inconvenience and cost for land owners the legislation is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It has the potential for all of us I suggest if implemented broadly affecting our freedoms so let’s see who and how it will effect.

 

[grumps147]

You mean these van lifers are going to go on to land and stay there when requested by the owner to leave? Surely they then make themselves the target. As for large groups we have seen what they do when they become mob handed, and unlike France we don't have a CRS in barracks we can turn out immediately, the country will not pay for it and for most citizens most of the time does not need it. There have been ample cases in the press where, when needed, we see large numbers of police at such encampments, the problem is that takes organising which takes time. It's simple, do not make yourself a target.

 

[The Old Man]

Man 'starting fires' while living in motorhome parked in A27 link road can't be moved

A MOTORHOME parked in a busy link road "for months" and served with legal notices cannot be moved as the owner is ignoring them.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[TDub49]

Man 'starting fires' while living in motorhome parked in A27 link road can't be moved

A MOTORHOME parked in a busy link road "for months" and served with legal notices cannot be moved as the owner is ignoring them.

www.theargus.co.uk

Interesting, especially the bit about not being able to find court time for minor cases. That's likely to be the case for a few years while the backlog of more serious matters is dealt with. Not sure how it is that a vehicle whose MoT expired in 2017 could be taxed up to March 2021 so I'm guessing that's a typo.

 

[JP1889]

Always having an enemy. Picking on minorities.
The Fascist playbook

Substitute Jews Trade unionists, communists for
Blacks Asians, Gays, Trans, Traveling communities


Police powers to curtail protest all sailing through.

RIP democracy.
Always having an enemy. Pick on the minorities.


As Basil Fawlty said
That's exactly how Nazi Germany started .
Make no mistake we are sleepwalking into fascism.

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