why is german build quality better

[stevescooby]

Probably been discussed a thousand times but what do the germans do different to us in the uk regarding water ingress in the building construction of there vans . Been looking to buy another m/home and have found many uk ones that i like but as soon as i see reviews on them regarding water ingress it put the fear of god into me . cheers steve .

 

[SIFTA SAM]

Am just reading of a less than 2year old Hymer T SL 708 that has 'rusting metal' strips under each of the internal window seals which the owner has just found with the rust marks on the walls.

 

[CazPaul]

Here is the cross section of a Concorde, the only wood is the laminated floor and that is inside the vehicle as it is double floored of course, you will see that the roof joint has essentially three seals before it can leak and then if any water can get through say a skylight you just have Alluminium and PU foam in the construction with no timber reinforcement around the cut outs so it's just a nuisance not a disaster.

But you do pay for this construction.

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Yes same as what is in our 2005 brochure Martin.

 

[David and Sally]

Because the Germans don't let accountants and spreadsheets run their companies.

 

[jongood]

Not (again) trying to rain on the German/European parade. but was I not reading (on here) of water ingress issues with some German product in recent years?. And I have had to re-seal the roof seam of an 11 year old Rapido. I vaguely recall some issue with garage doors too?. Baily had real water ingress issue some years back. Which I suspect prompted the "Alutech" move. Swift where the Bad Boys for a time. Recent time brought issues for Autotrail. When you look at the the "eye watering" prices of the very high end models. You expect, In fact would demand, a high level of quality build!.

As you can see from my "profile" where I live is in the virtual heartland of the "caravan" industry. Competion for jobs is severe, and employee turnover great. Many being also from the EU, on short(ish) contracts, BTW. When you get that sort of "churning" retaining and training staff is a Nightmare. Consequently, Q-C can be patchy to say the least. NO excuse for bad management or blatant profit taking, I agree but some light on the possible differences?.

Some fair points but the question was damp in motorhomes, AFAICS we comfortably lead the world in that

Btw Alutech is not the same stuff, its a loosefill with plastic where the wood was, it does little to address ingress it just does not rot. A bit like the plastic floors on Swifts.

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[funflair]

I wonder if the German buyers have been more demanding over the years than the UK buyers and thereby driven up the quality, they certainly buy a lot more of the top flight/price vans than we do but possibly they have a greater disposable income as my understanding is that they don't aspire to own property as we do with many preferring to rent instead.

 

[jongood]

I wonder if the German buyers have been more demanding over the years than the UK buyers and thereby driven up the quality, they certainly buy a lot more of the top flight/price vans than we do but possibly they have a greater disposable income as my understanding is that they don't aspire to own property as we do with many preferring to rent instead.

I think they re a lot more into financing than we are Martin.

 

[CazPaul]

I wonder if the German buyers have been more demanding over the years than the UK buyers and thereby driven up the quality, they certainly buy a lot more of the top flight/price vans than we do but possibly they have a greater disposable income as my understanding is that they don't aspire to own property as we do with many preferring to rent instead.

Bang on about the renting, Caz used to live in Germany and she said people were much happier to rent without the desire for everyone to own their own homes. Albeit in the 1980,s, not sure if it's changed.

 

[Lenny HB]

Really? Last year I paid £42.5k for my Bailey brand new. Point me to a German van within £10k of that price.

Carado, Sunlight, two to start with.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Carado, Sunlight, two to start with.

No. Looked at Carado from same dealer, written quote over £10k more.

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[Lenny HB]

Am just reading of a less than 2year old Hymer T SL 708 that has 'rusting metal' strips under each of the internal window seals which the owner has just found with the rust marks on the walls.

You are always going to get the odd problem with any van, Hymer certainly aren't what they used to be.
They are still pretty good for a mid-range van, basic construction is solid with external & internal walls aluminium, GRP floor, PU foam so in the unlightly event of water getting in it won't do any damage.

The useful figures are unavailable from manufacturers i.e. how many major faults per 1000 vans built.
You do see more reports of faults on Hymers than you use to but Hymer produce more vans in a year than the entire British industry & that is just the Hymer brand not the group.

Not only are British vans a hangover from caravans, they sell by throwing in all the bells & whistles that are extras on German vans.
Just look at Bailey, to start with they look like a caravan stuck on the back of a cab and how on earth can you build a van with all those extras including Alde heating for that sort of money. They have to make a profit to survive so something got to give, as they are speced to the hilt, basic construction must be paired to a minimum that's probably why they leak and fall to bits after a few years.

There is no way I would invest my hard earned cash in a British built Motorhome I learnt the hard way with caravans.

 

[BusyBuilder]

When we were looking to buy a motorhome about 5 years ago, I asked my brother who also had motorhomes.
He had owned a LUNAR, known as the Leaky Lunar, more leaks than Wales. He eventually gave in and swapped it for a Hymer caravan. The difference in quality was like Timex to Rolex (his words). So when we were looking for one, he said Hymer so thats what we bought.

The current van (2012) B544, we intended to keep it at least 10 years, till I get to 70 (as its 4250kg), it has a few niggles, and had a few problems, but not body work, all fittings like Truma & Dometic same as every other van. It did give me a few sleepless nights after spending £50k of our savings (no loans), but we would not do anything different, as we love it.

 

[Lenny HB]

No. Looked at Carado from same dealer, written quote over £10k more.

You can buy a Carado in Germany for 40k no need to pay stupid UK prices, we always buy our Hymers in Belgium.

 

[Lenny HB]

He had owned a LUNAR, known as the Leaky Lunar, more leaks than Wales.

Had a Lunar caravan, more water in the walls than the garden pond. Bought a Hobby caravan nice and cheap (bought in Germany 40% cheaper than UK price), construction quality was far superior and they are about the cheapest caravan in Europe.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

I wonder if the German buyers have been more demanding over the years than the UK buyers and thereby driven up the quality, they certainly buy a lot more of the top flight/price vans than we do but possibly they have a greater disposable income as my understanding is that they don't aspire to own property as we do with many preferring to rent instead.

I wonder what the percentage of British buyers with no mortgage to pay & who subsequently may have a higher disposable income is, versus British buyers who rent their properties & subsequently may have a lower disposable income ?

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[SIFTA SAM]

You are always going to get the odd problem with any vans, Hymer certainly aren't what they used to be.
They are still pretty good for a mid-range van, basic construction is solid with external & internal wall aluminium walls, GRP floor, PU foam so in the unlightly event of water getting in it won't do any damage.

The useful figures are unavailable from manufacturers i.e. how many major faults per 1000 vans built.
You do see more reports of faults on Hymers but Hymer produce more vans in a year than the entire British industry & that is just the Hymer brand not the group.

Not only are British vans a hang over from caravans, they sell by throwing in all the bells & whistles that are extras on German vans.
Just look at Bailey, to start with they look like a caravan stuck on the back of a cab and how on earth can you build a van with all those extras including Alde heating for that sort of money. They have to make a profit to survive so something got to give as they are speced to the hilt, basic construction must be paired to a minimum that's probably why they leak and fall to bits after a few years.

There is no way I would invest my hard earned cash in a British built Motorhome I learnt the hard way with caravans.

I agree with you entirely, as I have had a 2004 Hymer for a few years now.
I hope to get updates on the SL708 'progress', especially what remedial action may be taken to remove the rust markings.

 

[Jim]

Not talking about motorhomes specifically.. German made items were traditionally not at all stylish, but their prowess in design engineering and manufacture is hard to equal. The products are top notch. Think BMW cars and bikes and Leica etc.

Long before the EU existed they had high labour costs which means they rarely competed on cost. You buy German for the quality and because it will be so well made you grow to love its basic ugliness. Now the world is smaller and companies can bring in people to deal with their style shortcomings and you have a winning combination.

 

[Tincataylor]

German design / quality superiority, one of many myths that is taking a long time to die. Design and quality are a result of efficient systems and are totally removed from the country where one is born.

The Tincas

 

[DiggerJon]

Do I read that Hymer quality has taken a nose dive since the company was acquired by US giant Thor Industries? So much for Mercedes quality when owned by Chrysler - Hymer going the same way??

 

[Lenny HB]

Do I read that Hymer quality has taken a nose dive since the company was acquired by US giant Thor Industries? So much for Mercedes quality when owned by Chrysler - Hymer going the same way??

It dropped a long time before that no difference since the yanks took over. If fact there have been some improvements the SLC chassis is a great idea, loads of ground clearance completely clean underside to the van the only thing underneath the van is the handbrake cable, all the chassis rails and other bits enclosed in the double floor.

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[RubyOptics]

Not talking about motorhomes specifically.. German made items were traditionally are not at all stylish, but their prowess in design engineering and manufacture is hard to equal. The products are top notch. Think BMW cars and bikes and Leica etc.

Long before the EU existed they had high labour costs which means they rarely competed on cost. You buy German for the quality and because it will be so well made you grow to love its basic ugliness. Now the world is smaller and companies can bring in people to deal with their style shortcomings and you have a winning combination.

I can certainly agree on this point. Our recent <Broken link removed> certainly won't win any beauty pageants (although we love her!) but the difference in build quality between it and the 2018 PLA we rented is night and day. I feel I'm too new to this world to comment on whether the difference is due to the age of my van or the fact it is a German van, but personally I suspect it's a combination of both.

 

[Geo]

Yes, new ones you are correct, but 2.5 years ago we paid 30k abroad for a 2005 Concorde A class, Iveco RWD, twin rear wheels, 3.0 Litre engine, fully loaded etc. Great build quality. Everything feels like its been stolen from a tank.

I thought that turret was a huge sat dome