why is german build quality better

[stevescooby]

Probably been discussed a thousand times but what do the germans do different to us in the uk regarding water ingress in the building construction of there vans . Been looking to buy another m/home and have found many uk ones that i like but as soon as i see reviews on them regarding water ingress it put the fear of god into me . cheers steve .

 

[jongood]

Its the same in many things, the german approach is to formulate a plan and then invest for the long term. Whereas the brits are more creative but struggle to get investment. The german road system is a good example, they will identify difficult junctions and put the appropriate measures in. The Uk puts what it can get away with in and then slaps plasters on it.

 

[CazPaul]

Some of the German ones dont use any wood, they use aluminium inside and out for the walls, grp or aluminium floor and fully winterise the whole van.

 

[jongood]

Some of the German ones dont use any wood, they use aluminium inside and out for the walls, grp or aluminium floor and fully winterise the whole van.

N&B were doing this in the nineties ( apart from garage floors on early artos)

 

[funflair]

Hi Steve

I guess it's a combination of things, but it must start from a better design concept, the UK motorhome industry has evolved from caravans with mastic seams and wooden floors and they don't seem to have moved on that much.

You can tell that the Germans have thought about and actually designed and invested in that design by the number of A class German vans vs the number of A class Brit vans.

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[Shrimp]

Possibly because the Brits are still building caravans with an engine!
As said already the German vans don’t have wood in the build and tend to build to a spec not a price!

 

[stevescooby]

Some of the German ones dont use any wood, they use aluminium inside and out for the walls, grp or aluminium floor and fully winterise the whole van.

which german ones use aluminium

 

[Rob Turner]

German vans are cheaper too.
I looked at the price of an Autotrail (I wouldn’t buy one) and you’d pay a lot less for a better van.

 

[Rob Turner]

which german ones use aluminium

My Carthago is aluminium

 

[RidersofRohan]

And they cost considerably more to buy than a British built but contain the same stuff made by Dometic Thetford and Truma etc.
You pay for the investment in better build. Any visit to the Elddis factory since Hymer takeover shows the levels of investment in technology the Germans are willing to make. They then expect to drive up numbers of units produced each week.
Having said that Bailey have invested heavily with a new factory to make the panels, the Alu-tech system and a rolling production line.
Perhaps we just stop short on investment in the last finish, the small detail. The right screws or glue or tailored joint for the wall unit, the robust electrical wiring and control unit.

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[Podney]

And the French can build a decent van too!

 

[CazPaul]

which german ones use aluminium

Niesmann, Concorde, Carthago, Morelo, Hymer. Vario use GRP, overall better build although all vans can have problems, in my opinion only i stress, regardless of the country of build, the overall quality went down after 2006.

 

[Rob Turner]

And the French can build a decent van too!

But they only come with a reverse gear

 

[RidersofRohan]

German vans are cheaper too.
I looked at the price of an Autotrail (I wouldn’t buy one) and you’d pay a lot less for a better van.

Really? Last year I paid £42.5k for my Bailey brand new. Point me to a German van within £10k of that price.

 

[Rob Turner]

I was referring to the Autotrail price.
Plus I buy my vans in Germany and they are considerably cheaper.

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[Podney]

But they only come with a reverse gear

Harsh!........but they also come with 365 different cheeses and a crate of Chateau La Fite de Rothschild Grand Cru....Rodney!

 

[Pausim]

“What do we want?” PROFIT “When do we want it?” NOW
———————————-V————————————
Long term investment, research and planning.

 

[CazPaul]

Really? Last year I paid £42.5k for my Bailey brand new. Point me to a German van within £10k of that price.

Yes, new ones you are correct, but 2.5 years ago we paid 30k abroad for a 2005 Concorde A class, Iveco RWD, twin rear wheels, 3.0 Litre engine, fully loaded etc. Great build quality. Everything feels like its been stolen from a tank.

 

[jockaneezer]

Did I read somewhere that some of the British vans are built by employees who are on "piece work" which can lead to "shortcuts" and there was a post on here last week about a guy who finished his job at a carvery on a Friday and was fitting motorhome water tanks on the Monday, with no training ?
The krautmobiles aren't without issues too, just make sure you check everything thoroughly when you go to look at vans.

 

[Gaston aires]

But they only come with a reverse gear

That’s the Italians.
Phil

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[PeteH]

Not (again) trying to rain on the German/European parade. but was I not reading (on here) of water ingress issues with some German product in recent years?. And I have had to re-seal the roof seam of an 11 year old Rapido. I vaguely recall some issue with garage doors too?. Baily had real water ingress issue some years back. Which I suspect prompted the "Alutech" move. Swift where the Bad Boys for a time. Recent time brought issues for Autotrail. When you look at the the "eye watering" prices of the very high end models. You expect, In fact would demand, a high level of quality build!.

As you can see from my "profile" where I live is in the virtual heartland of the "caravan" industry. Competion for jobs is severe, and employee turnover great. Many being also from the EU, on short(ish) contracts, BTW. When you get that sort of "churning" retaining and training staff is a Nightmare. Consequently, Q-C can be patchy to say the least. NO excuse for bad management or blatant profit taking, I agree but some light on the possible differences?.

 

[The Wino]

Isn't there a post on here about hymer headlight units and wiring being a poor design and very expensive to replace and wheelarch problems on some hymers and carthago warranty problems. I suspect that some makes are better than others but all suffer from being small production runs when compared to cars.

 

[Rob Turner]

That’s the Italians.
Phil

Them too Phil

 

[Speve]

I think that a lot of the problems are arising from poor quality control in the factories, however the German vans suffer that problem as well and the finishing particularly on our current Hymer leaves a little to be desired it seems although the body shell is more robust the interiors are let down by using flimsy plywood and cheap fittings. I really don’t think German vans are miles ahead other than perhaps past reputation which is waining.

 

[jongood]

which german ones use aluminium

All N&B's

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[dulvil]

This is true. When I had numerous faults with my auto trail I took it to the factory for the day to let them sort it out. Couple of nice chaps looking at fixing it and I asked what their skills were . They laughed and said they were fiddlers ( fiddled about until they got it right) they got it right though. Left the factory and the door lock broke, back to them again to be fiddled

 

[Off da Grid]

Maybe a reason to convert a panel van or larger box type vehicle or go along the bus conversion route.
At least they should be water tight.

 

[Speve]

Maybe a reason to convert a panel van or larger box type vehicle or go along the bus conversion route.
At least they should be water tight.

There are problems arising with that nowadays with taxation classes etc and having the to abide by the HMG guidelines on what a motor Caravan should be like to comply.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Did I read somewhere that some of the British vans are built by employees who are on "piece work" which can lead to "shortcuts" and there was a post on here last week about a guy who finished his job at a carvery on a Friday and was fitting motorhome water tanks on the Monday, with no training ?
The krautmobiles aren't without issues too, just make sure you check everything thoroughly when you go to look at vans.

Spot on, our Elddis is solid enough, it's just thrown together very carelessly. A bit more mastic and clips etc is all that's wrong with it. Oh and the small matter of the waste fittings were upside down on both sinks and peed grey water everywhere.

 

[funflair]

Here is the cross section of a Concorde, the only wood is the laminated floor and that is inside the vehicle as it is double floored of course, you will see that the roof joint has essentially three seals before it can leak and then if any water can get through say a skylight you just have Alluminium and PU foam in the construction with no timber reinforcement around the cut outs so it's just a nuisance not a disaster.

But you do pay for this construction.