Why have 140 Ryanair pilots left to join norwegian airline...

[PhilG]

We fly Ryan regularly, Berlin and back for £50, i don't have to stand on the wing, or use an outside toilet, and i can get there and back for less money than it costs to park my car doing it.

If you want better service, pay more money , all i care about is cost , If they can get me halfway across Europe for less than a pub meal, they can punch me in the face for all i care.

 

[RidersofRohan]

We fly Ryan regularly, Berlin and back for £50, i don't have to stand on the wing, or use an outside toilet, and i can get there and back for less money than it costs to park my car doing it.

If you want better service, pay more money , all i care about is cost , If they can get me halfway across Europe for less than a pub meal, they can punch me in the face for all i care.

And this is why competition on airways has been a success. Customers have choice of carrier on many routes or alternative destination airports with other carriers. Some are low cost and others offer frills that appeal to some people. By the same token the labour market for airline staff has also widened and BA is no longer the only option and even at regional airports there are sometimes more than one potential employer. There is bound to be movement of staff seeking better pay and/or conditions.
Its a seasonal industry with peaks at school holiday times when the bulk of the population have their annual flight abroad, provided safety parameters are met pilots should expect more work in the summer than the winter.

 

[gus-lopez]

Its a seasonal industry with peaks at school holiday times when the bulk of the population have their annual flight abroad, provided safety parameters are met pilots should expect more work in the summer than the winter.

But like lorry drivers they are restricted to a maximum amount of hours per week ( hardly any in my recollection but someone can actually post an accurate amount)You can't work more in a busy period than you can in a slack one.

 

[Dazzles]

We fly Ryan regularly, Berlin and back for £50, i don't have to stand on the wing, or use an outside toilet, and i can get there and back for less money than it costs to park my car doing it.

If you want better service, pay more money , all i care about is cost , If they can get me halfway across Europe for less than a pub meal, they can punch me in the face for all i care.

At the risk of constantly having to post the same thing, it’s nothing to do with their service. The business model is archaic and exploits staff. Take the moral stand for the sake of a few quid.

 

[PhilG]

At the risk of constantly having to post the same thing, it’s nothing to do with their service. The business model is archaic and exploits staff. Take the moral stand for the sake of a few quid.

Sadly that ship has sailed ... anyone who buys off the internet should have done that for the last ten years, then we might still have high streets worth walking down.

I only fly because RyanAir makes it affordable to me, being able to book early and get the price, that nobody else gets near is what i want. I am having a night out with friends in Frankfurt next month... £55 for 2 of us return. I cant get a night out in my village for that.

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[chaser]

Sadly that ship has sailed ... anyone who buys off the internet should have done that for the last ten years, then we might still have high streets worth walking down.

I only fly because RyanAir makes it affordable to me, being able to book early and get the price, that nobody else gets near is what i want. I am having a night out with friends in Frankfurt next month... £55 for 2 of us return. I cant get a night out in my village for that.

Best of it is though they are no where near as bad as critics make out, we have never had a delay or late flight , pleasant staff , plenty room for what we need , no problem with luggage , cheaper than the lift to get to the airport what the he'll is there to complain about.

 

[PhilandMena]

Yep , refund always comes quick. .................................and by accepting it you might well get the " under the terms of the compensation scheme by accepting the refund we have complied with our obligations" email

You should never agree to the refund if you want to argue the toss. Although in this case I don't think they have any way of using " extraordinary circumstances" which is the favourite get out. Good luck though & I hope you take them for thousands.

With respect to compensation, I have already completed and submitted the form I was directed to by Ryanair. They have acknowledged receipt of my claim for compensation and I have a copy of that record. As the distance between Stansted & Prague is less than 1500 Kilometres I will only be entitled to 250 Euros as the flight was cancelled more than 3 hours and less than 2 weeks before departure. They also cancelled the return flight too. So 2 flights, 2 passengers equals 4 x 250 = 1000 euros compensation. Pays for our hotel and some fine dining to celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary. AND, (and it's a big and) I have been in touch with my MP and I have a letter him stating he will only be too happy to take issue with Ryanair on my behalf if they let me down on compensation.

 

[Jagtazman]

Not Ryan Air but booked our flights with Easyjet to see mother in law in Cyprus next April. Family of 4. Manchester to Paphos £1400. Luton to Paphos same dates £900 !!! WTF !!!
It amazes me how airlines work out their charges. Although we live in Halifax and Manchester is 1hr away and Luton is 3 hrs drive. its £500 in my back pocket rather than theirs.

 

[Ivory55]

All this proves is everything has a cost. We are all guilty, be it buying a 50p t shirt from a sweat shop in the Far East or cheap flights. There are reasons it's cheap, and labour is a cost they want to save on.

 

[Stretto Boy]

Not Ryan Air but booked our flights with Easyjet to see mother in law in Cyprus next April. Family of 4. Manchester to Paphos £1400. Luton to Paphos same dates £900 !!! WTF !!!
It amazes me how airlines work out their charges. Although we live in Halifax and Manchester is 1hr away and Luton is 3 hrs drive. its £500 in my back pocket rather than theirs.

Supply and demand.

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[EuroTrotters]

Not Ryan Air but booked our flights with Easyjet to see mother in law in Cyprus next April. Family of 4. Manchester to Paphos £1400. Luton to Paphos same dates £900 !!! WTF !!!
It amazes me how airlines work out their charges. Although we live in Halifax and Manchester is 1hr away and Luton is 3 hrs drive. its £500 in my back pocket rather than theirs.

But you have the additional cost of the extra 4 hours Via Luton!

Ryanair are showing flights for £10 from London to Valencia each way.

But Far easier to Fly Manchester - Alicante and pay £60-£120 each way. We are only 20 mins (45 at the wrong time of day) from Manchester.

 

[Jagtazman]

Supply and demand.

Reckon it's cause Manchester bigger catchment area and more flights more choice so charge more as can get away with it. same flights 2 to 2.5k in August in school hols. or 200 yes only 200 in Feb!!

glad we have the MH recently drove to Italy and back all in including diesel campsites food drink tolls etc 2.2k for 16 days could have done cheaper if cut back on a few things
so glad we don't need to fly much these days prices are only going one way
especially in school hols which we have to do due to kids and wife also works at a school

 

[chaser]

• We only fly from east mids , if they dont go from there we dont go. Brilliant little airport , walk in and off you go, twenty mins on a50

 

[Silver-Fox]

The company exploit they're staff with zero hour contracts and none of the benefits that other Airline staff are entitled too.

I thought the pilots were effectively directors of small companies as I heard on TV.
If this is the case they wouldn't have contracts I wouldn't have thought.

The more people use RyanAir the more of these type of business models will appear

Not everyone wants a free paper as they get on the plane, cheaper flights allow some to fly that wouldn't normally do so.
As they say ya pays ya money.....

 

[EuroTrotters]

• We only fly from east mids , if they dont go from there we dont go. Brilliant little airport , walk in and off you go, twenty mins on a50

Same here, we have Liverpool. But not worth the hassle. Even the Scousers come over to Manchester.

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[Silver-Fox]

But like lorry drivers they are restricted to a maximum amount of hours per week

Lets hope they don't start employing lots of Eastern European pilots then, as lorry drivers they seem to go the extra mile in hours

 

[EuroTrotters]

Its the Language barrier that worries me!

 

[Dazzles]

I thought the pilots were effectively directors of small companies as I heard on TV.
If this is the case they wouldn't have contracts I wouldn't have thought.



Not everyone wants a free paper as they get on the plane, cheaper flights allow some to fly that wouldn't normally do so.
As they say ya pays ya money.....

Or maybe pilots are employed through a separate agency so no contract, zero hours guaranteed and no right to being part of a union. But hey, as long as you can get your cheap flights, then who cares.

 

[chaser]

Or maybe pilots are employed through a separate agency so no contract, zero hours guaranteed and no right to being part of a union. But hey, as long as you can get your cheap flights, then who cares.

I bet they are still on a fair screw, whatever.

 

[ymfb]

Not Ryan Air but booked our flights with Easyjet to see mother in law in Cyprus next April. Family of 4. Manchester to Paphos £1400. Luton to Paphos same dates £900 !!! WTF !!!
It amazes me how airlines work out their charges. Although we live in Halifax and Manchester is 1hr away and Luton is 3 hrs drive. its £500 in my back pocket rather than theirs.

Until you fly from Luton, which is officially the worst airport in the UK and has been for the last five years. Go early, be prepared to queue at all opportunities, do not consider anything other than checking in before you leave home and printing your boarding cards. I have to say only saving £500 and having to drive past Manchester and near Birmingham airport to get to the hell that is Luton is not value for money.

I flew to Katowice recently from Luton, something I will be trying hard to avoid repeating.

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[RidersofRohan]

Or maybe pilots are employed through a separate agency so no contract, zero hours guaranteed and no right to being part of a union. But hey, as long as you can get your cheap flights, then who cares.

Either way it's hardly slave labour. It's a seasonal industry and the expression make hay while the sun shines probably typifies the approach most will take.

 

[Robin McHood]

Either way it's hardly slave labour. It's a seasonal industry and the expression make hay while the sun shines probably typifies the approach most will take.

Not slave labour no, but taking advantage yes.

Most Ryanair pilots and other low cost carrier pilots will have shelled out tens of thousands to acquire their licences and type approvals. Ryanair etc wont have contributed a penny towards that. They will in return receive one of the worst deals in the industry, many effectively on zero hours self employed status where the airline will push to the boundary the flying hours they can squeeze out of them during the seasonal months and potentially little or no income out of those months. Pay I believe for first officers is around the £15,000 pa level though I stand to be corrected on that.

So when you fly these carriers, your £6 buys you two pilots probably with minimal experience, pushed to the legal limits of their flying hours, doing a mentally intensive, highly technical and highly skilled job where a mistake can kill you and all your passengers and where you have to requalify every six months, at your cost. Fail that 6 monthly sim and no flying and no income until you resit and pass. How many of us would think this is a good screw?
Anyone of several of what we would call minor medical problems and that license is suspended or possibly lost for good.

Still think that £6 is a good deal and they are 'on a good screw'?

Ryanair and the others only function at all because they know there are lots of youngsters desperate to fly so they put up with the conditions to build enough hours on type to make them attractive to the major carriers or anyone who will pay a £5 more. They hold a large 'pool' of pilots under these contracts that can be drawn on whenever they need, I believe in Ryanair's case they have a pool larger than that of BA.

Ohh and those cabin staff, the ones who get their low wages docked if they don't sell a certain number of scratch cards and bottles of perfume per shift, and are still expected to smile and cater for your every need?

 

[PhilandMena]

• We only fly from east mids , if they dont go from there we dont go. Brilliant little airport , walk in and off you go, twenty mins on a50

Came past there yesterday on the M1. The new train station being built looks like it's going to make this a top option to fly from.

 

[Langtoftlad]

• Ryanair is non unionised for any of the staff.
• Pilot flying hours are 900 per year - CAA & JAR limits, although the airlines have been trying to raise that to 1000.
• There is a monthly limit too but I can't recall what, but that can be rolled forward into the next month.
• Pilots have to be kept sweet as without them the operation stops - very limited strike breaking opportunities.
• Ryanair had "divided & conquered" by fragmenting pilot unity by different base strategy, accelerated Captain promotion - but that has run its course, and now their pilots are beginning to organise.

I would use Ryanair if the only affordable option but luckily, so far,I've always had an alternative.

It used to be said by my BA employers that the main difference between low cost & full service airlines is when things go wrong... either being looked after or left to fend for yourself.
Sadly, since having WW at the helm and his money grabbing race to the bottom, that is no longer the case .

 

[RidersofRohan]

Not slave labour no, but taking advantage yes.

Most Ryanair pilots and other low cost carrier pilots will have shelled out tens of thousands to acquire their licences and type approvals. Ryanair etc wont have contributed a penny towards that. They will in return receive one of the worst deals in the industry, many effectively on zero hours self employed status where the airline will push to the boundary the flying hours they can squeeze out of them during the seasonal months and potentially little or no income out of those months. Pay I believe for first officers is around the £15,000 pa level though I stand to be corrected on that.

So when you fly these carriers, your £6 buys you two pilots probably with minimal experience, pushed to the legal limits of their flying hours, doing a mentally intensive, highly technical and highly skilled job where a mistake can kill you and all your passengers and where you have to requalify every six months, at your cost. Fail that 6 monthly sim and no flying and no income until you resit and pass. How many of us would think this is a good screw?
Anyone of several of what we would call minor medical problems and that license is suspended or possibly lost for good.

Still think that £6 is a good deal and they are 'on a good screw'?

Ryanair and the others only function at all because they know there are lots of youngsters desperate to fly so they put up with the conditions to build enough hours on type to make them attractive to the major carriers or anyone who will pay a £5 more. They hold a large 'pool' of pilots under these contracts that can be drawn on whenever they need, I believe in Ryanair's case they have a pool larger than that of BA.

Ohh and those cabin staff, the ones who get their low wages docked if they don't sell a certain number of scratch cards and bottles of perfume per shift, and are still expected to smile and cater for your every need?

Never flown with them myself, unaware that flights were available for £6.
Similarly I'm quite happy to pay a self employed plumber to fix a leak, and if you ever been self employed you will know what a zero hours contract is as every day thats your only guarrantee.
Never ask them how much they are earning either.
With train drivers on £75K in Southern England I find it hard to believe pilots are so poorly paid, if so train drivers are grossly over paid. Probably neither is the case.

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[Robin McHood]

This gives you some of an idea of how intense the concentration required by the pilots is, flying a modern 'automated' commercial aircraft and why pilot hours are limited. That pr**k from Ryanair would rather you were flown by pilots at the limits of mental exhaustion just so he can make another buck. I wouldn't fly with them even if they paid me to do so.
https://mmsba.wordpress.com/2017/07/08/its-all-on-autopilot-right/

 

[pyro]

The story I was told by a friend (pilot for EasyJet) was that Ryanair won't employ pilots save in a self employed contractor capacity, so instead of striking, lots of them are simply saying they are unavailable and looking elsewhere. Frankly it's a mugs game nowadays, the wages are a fraction of what they used to be and there is little glamour or status left in the job

Haven't flown Norwegian yet, so can't comment, but it will be a cold day in hell before I climb aboard a Ryanair flight again

 

[EuroTrotters]

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...n-air-eyes-monarch-airlines-deal-sources-say/

 

[bubble63]

Never flown with them myself, unaware that flights were available for £6.
Similarly I'm quite happy to pay a self employed plumber to fix a leak, and if you ever been self employed you will know what a zero hours contract is as every day thats your only guarrantee.
Never ask them how much they are earning either.
With train drivers on £75K in Southern England I find it hard to believe pilots are so poorly paid, if so train drivers are grossly over paid. Probably neither is the case.

Agree

 

[bubble63]

This gives you some of an idea of how intense the concentration required by the pilots is, flying a modern 'automated' commercial aircraft and why pilot hours are limited. That pr**k from Ryanair would rather you were flown by pilots at the limits of mental exhaustion just so he can make another buck. I wouldn't fly with them even if they paid me to do so.
https://mmsba.wordpress.com/2017/07/08/its-all-on-autopilot-right/

Wow
You’ve got it bad, get well soon

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