Who actually likes the driver aids on newer vehicles? (2 Viewers)

[Rick Axon]

When I was in Germany in the mid 70's I had a Polski Fiat which had cruise control, this basically was a cable attached to the accelerator which in turn was attached to a knob on the dashboard. You press the accelerator until you reached the speed you wanted pull the knob until the cable was tight and turn the knob to the right to lock it. turn the knob to the left to release. Only used it once.

The past three Skoda's I've owned has ACC, I use it all the time. Helps keep me to the speed limits, especially in these ridiculous 20MPH zones.

 

[Folkranger]

I think that is why manufacturers like to fit all these gizmos. Same in habitation area with electric beds, awnings, sunblinds etc. All more to go expensively wrong.

Safety devices aside, they fit gizmos because they help sell their cars. People see them and they become "must haves"

 

[Guigsy]

I'm generally not a fan of lane assist. But I recently had a VW ID.3 and, after I got my head around what it was trying to do, it wasn't too bad. I was throwing it down back country lanes and deliberately using all the tarmac. Including crossing the centre line on mild wiggles when the was nothing coming the other way. Instead of wrestling the wheel out of my hands, it just provided far more assistance in the direction it wanted to go. I never felt it on the motorway or when I wasn't pushing on. Except in roadworks where the lane marking was a mess, when it assisted a lane change, but then switched itself off when it got confused. After a day of use, I was fine with leaving it on.

 

[Marky146]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. I fly for a living and we have the same conversations. I’ve flown without autopilot many times. Lots of different aircraft. I used to think Tesla calling their lane keeping and adaptive cruise control system “autopilot” was disingenuous but now I don’t. It’s for cruising. Something aircraft autopilots are best at. However FSD is now so good it drives you door to door, from parking space to parking space, at least in the U.S.

I can program my 737 to fly an old style NDB approach and it’s 1m accurate in horizontal and vertical profile and delivers me to the runway. Very impressive. Can I do without, of course. Happily. But I get it. Letting the autopilot fly my SA is better and I can concentrate on monitoring and what is out the window.

These ADAS systems come in a box from Bosch. The EU mandate them. They looked at improving driving standards, and basically gave up. Also remember, to fit an optional system to a car you have to design it with and without, the one without will still have mountings. And space for the system. It’s often cheaper just to fit the systems to all models. Take electric windows. If you sell 200,000 vehicles, and half will have extras ordered. You order 100,000 mechanical window mechanisms and 100,000 electric ones. The price for these is probably twice what it would be to order 200,000 of each. Economies of scale. You’re paying for the setup of the stamping machine, wiring looms, equipment and tools as well as the finished part. So it costs no more to fit the electric ones and you charge a little bit more for the base model as it is perceived to have higher value. That’s how many cars end up as stuffed with tech whether you want it or not.

Me? I indicate, use appropriate lights and position correctly, or if I feel like it, I let the car do it. My choice. If it’s after a long Antalya flight and I’m driving back at 3am…. It’s usually the car!

 

[funflair]

I find it quite worrying that people are having to wrestle with the steering to override the lane assist, ours is adjustable and is set to medium which is just a little nudge if I start to drift, maybe people need to look at the settings assuming it is adjustable.

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[nicholsong]

Safety devices aside, they fit gizmos because they help sell their cars. People see them and they become "must haves"

It would work the opposite with me, as I would see them as potential expensive repairs.

What is the position regarding MOT? One principle of MOT testing is that if it is fitted it has to work. Have DVSA devised tests for these gizmos to determine whether they pass or fail>

 

[Guigsy]

Take electric windows. If you sell 200,000 vehicles, and half will have extras ordered. You order 100,000 mechanical window mechanisms and 100,000 electric ones. The price for these is probably twice what it would be to order 200,000 of each.

A couple of decades ago, the lower model VW Golfs had manual windows and the higher spec ones were electric. But they all had the motor and the mechanism. Just the door trim either had a handle or buttons. It was cheaper for VW to manufacture. What annoyed people was that made the manual version more expensive to make, but it was only on the cheaper models. But it's down to marketing.

 

[Larrynwin]

On my Sportage I have lane assist set to give audible warning and slight wheel resistance, there is a further switch on the steering wheel which when used the car steers itself but warns on dash if you take hands off wheel.
The adaptive cruise will accelerate and brake to a stop and has four car to car distance settings on a wheel switch depending on how close you prefer. A bit unnerving relying on a car to stop itself
We are so close to being driverless.

 

[Spriddler]

It’s often cheaper just to fit the systems to all models. Take electric windows. If you sell 200,000 vehicles, and half will have extras ordered. You order 100,000 mechanical window mechanisms and 100,000 electric ones. The price for these is probably twice what it would be to order 200,000 of each. Economies of scale.

My company used to manufacture public address systems with either 60, 120 or 250 watt amplifiers. The manufacturing cost of each differed mainly in the cost of whether it had the the 60, 120 or 250w custom made toroidal output transformer. As a cost-saving move we still made the whole range, labelled accordingly (i.e. 60, 120 or 250W) but fitted all with all the 250w transformer. Because we could purchase a far larger quantity of just one transformer the cost-saving meant that we reduced the cost of the whole range.

 

[Lenny HB]

That’s strange Lenny HB, mine has hill hold for definite and it works very well

Is it 9 speed auto?

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[georgio]

My "driving aid" comes with me in whatever vehicle I am using... it can not be disabled.

bet it tells you when the lights change to green, I,ve got one.

 

[Landy Andy]

It would work the opposite with me, as I would see them as potential expensive repairs.

What is the position regarding MOT? One principle of MOT testing is that if it is fitted it has to work. Have DVSA devised tests for these gizmos to determine whether they pass or fail>

My father has just had to buy a new car as his airbag light came on, and main dealer can no longer get the part. Even if they could it’s £2200. I could only find two used items that were in Lithuania and were still silly money, and then would have to pay main dealer £800 to fit and program. If they worked, and if the ecu was the problem.
The car is now useless as can’t be MOTd, with an MOT it has a px value of 8-10 thousand.

 

[Ian Bosman]

I don't have any aids on my old van but recently hired a brand new transit with the full package. After two days of driving around I can say I am not a fan of these so called advances. I really disliked the stop start, I could see that shortening the life of the starter, battery and probably the whole engine. Lane assist is a joke, if you cant steer between the two lines on the road you shouldn't be driving. I agree that phones are distracting when driving so why is the massive screen in the middle of the dashboard ok? Sat nav, phone, radio etc etc, all displayed at the same time. Finally the self activating wipers, is it too much effort to reach out with a finger to the stalk and switch them on and off manually?? GRRRR

?Having had a car with self activating wipers I do miss them they on my Peugeot 508 estate were extremely good and save the bother of having them turned on and coffin intermittent rain. They could be disabled if you wished, I never did. on a vehicle with lane assist was a real nuisance n9diiferent brand of car hired to me.

 

[GibAvon]

My "driving aid" comes with me in whatever vehicle I am using... it can not be disabled.

Yes - I have one too. I also have Sat Nag.

 

[Folkranger]

It would work the opposite with me, as I would see them as potential expensive repairs.

What is the position regarding MOT? One principle of MOT testing is that if it is fitted it has to work. Have DVSA devised tests for these gizmos to determine whether they pass or fail>

I agree. Just when cars had become reliable mature technology they introduce computerised electronics. The brands with the most electronics become the most unreliable. I drove my new Masda home from the showroom and it went wrong as I reached my drive and started playing with the tech. Had to call them out and they said it was my fault that I had the radio on too long.

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[Folkranger]

My Mazda has a camera which detects if I nod off and wakes me up. I imagine this will make long motorway journeys tedious if I can't have a nap on the way.

 

[Drummerboy]

I didn't think I would like or even use cruise control but really do like it a lot.

To be fair I was pretty reticent about having an automatic but my opinion has changed completely

 

[Guigsy]

My father has just had to buy a new car as his airbag light came on, and main dealer can no longer get the part. Even if they could it’s £2200. I could only find two used items that were in Lithuania and were still silly money, and then would have to pay main dealer £800 to fit and program. If they worked, and if the ecu was the problem.
The car is now useless as can’t be MOTd, with an MOT it has a px value of 8-10 thousand.

Then it's unfit for purpose and the dealer should take it back.

 

[Blofeld]

I love all this technology. Most of it makes driving easier and safer, and I can tell you that driving my 1930 Alvis without synchromesh and with limited braking, lights and grunt is hard work with occasional scary bits.

So I’m assuming no-one wants to chuck out the ABS, the ASR, the lights that come on by themselves, the GPS or the radio? Adaptive cruise control lets me crawl down the M5 in a lengthy traffic jam rarely even touching the steering or the accelerator and the brakes not at all. Advanced LED headlights let me see where I’m going and adjust themselves around oncoming traffic.

OK I only use lane assist on motorways, but it works well there. The version that responds to side winds hitting the van sounds brilliant - would have been handy driving from Scotland to Cirencester during storm Babet last year.

 

[cyberyacht]

It's all the pings and bongs that you have absolutely no idea what they signify. Even if it said 'cashier No 4 please' it would provide some guidance.

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[gilbaro]

On many cars these devices can be turned off. They are an aid when we lose concentration and if you bear in mind the fact that the average driver only concentrates 25% of the time when driving then they have probably helped a driver to either avoid an accident or reduce its severity.
Considering what we would now think as standard technology, ABS doesn't give the shortest stopping compared with a skilled driver braking to the threshold of grip but not everyone is skilled or concentrating! It does however allow a driver to brake and steer and hopefully avoid a collision.
So don't dismiss the technology, accept it is not perfect and it may save your life one day.

 

[PDrill]

The dealer accidentally ordered our van with the driver's aid pack so it has almost all the bells and whistles. The lane assist is quite alert on twisty small country roads but other than that it seems to be satisfied with my driving. Occasionally it alerts me for no obvious reason, but the audible alert is so soft that it doesn't bother me even on those twisty roads. The blind spot assist turns on the light when some one is next to me, and if I try to change the lane it beeps. Tried once, never needed it yet. One nice thing is the crossing traffic alert (?) when reversing, didn't even know what that is until it activated the first time. I was reversing on a parking lot and it started to beep and I noticed some pedestrians coming my way from the side. They were clearly visible on the rear view camera and I noticed them right away when I looked at the display and they were still 20 meters away.

One thing I would like that would be nice if it worked is the traffic sign (well, mostly speed limit signs) detection. If you drive past a sign and missed it, you can see the new speed limit flashing on the display and that can be trusted, but drive for a while and it can show what ever. On the highway nearby there's a spot where it decides to show 80 even if there has been no signs at all and the limit still is 120. For a while I thought it might interact with the onboard navigation and get it's speed data also from there, but updating the 2019 maps (in a 2024 vehicle..) to the latest didn't help. It's not a problem now that I know how it 'works', but on our first trip I was more than slightly confused when the nav beeped for speed camera, display was showing 60 and I thought the limit was 80 or 100. After that trip I disabled the camera warnings, never had those and never had any problems with cameras so I don't need that beeping.

The only thing it doesn't have is the adaptive cruise control, and I don't know what to think about those. I've been driving one car with it, and been as a passenger on few and on the highways they keep way too short distance to the next car even with the maximum distance set. But then, if I'm going to overtake someone I have to change the lane way earlier than I would like to. If there was an option to choose if I want to use normal or adaptive CC that would be nice, but if the CC is always adaptive then I think a basic CC is the one for me.

 

[Tony50]

I'm fine with start-stop (it's been around for nearly 20 years without issues), adaptive cruise, blind spot warning. The only thing I'm not a fan of is lane assist.

Lazy drivers as they are relying on other automated systems to do it for them?

I would like my motorhome to have Autopilot and any help I can get, I am a lazy driver , I have always said if there's something to the vehicle can ,like Automatic gear change why do you want to do it yourself ? Can't see the point.

 

[Stubbyy]

I don't have any aids on my old van but recently hired a brand new transit with the full package. After two days of driving around I can say I am not a fan of these so called advances. I really disliked the stop start, I could see that shortening the life of the starter, battery and probably the whole engine. Lane assist is a joke, if you cant steer between the two lines on the road you shouldn't be driving. I agree that phones are distracting when driving so why is the massive screen in the middle of the dashboard ok? Sat nav, phone, radio etc etc, all displayed at the same time. Finally the self activating wipers, is it too much effort to reach out with a finger to the stalk and switch them on and off manually?? GRRRR

Sorry but have to disagree on some points raised - not sure about your hire Van but I can switch OFF THE stop start if for instance in a long line of traffic/ keeps the battery charged / saves a lot of fuel/polution . Lane quidance again my car uses sensors to SEE THE LINES AND IN THICK FOG ITS A BIG HELP keeps me on the road and not off the edge. However I do agree that some systems are overkill but again my system will let me (Selectivly) switch some Off the choice is mine. Regards Barri

 

[royandsharont]

Is it 9 speed auto?

Lenny HB Yes 2022 model, 8 I think it’s called, with all sorts of extras fitted including hill decent and electric handbrake which holds on an incline. It’s the latest 9 gear auto box.

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[Tony50]

It's a nice gearbox we had a 2023 model, pity about the body on the chassis that's why we got rid of it after 11 months

 

[KASPAR]

Is it 9 speed auto?

Should have got a Mercedes chassis

 

[Lenny HB]

Should have got a Mercedes chassis

The van we wanted can't be built on a Merc

 

[Blueboy 1878]

Yep, there's a lot of those devices about .

They are very handy to have but expensive!

 

[ToGoldlyBo]

2 years ago I had to scrap my 20 year old Renault Scenic and I invested in a new MG electric. No regrets at all about that. But I did find a whole battery of tech that I didn't even know existed. I have changed some of my driving habits, but I wouldn't go without any of the new gizmos. I don't use cruise control because it uses so much more fuel, but I love a flashing light in my wing mirror to warn me of something in my blind spot. And 360° cameras for parking...YES!!! Wish I had it on my Rio 320. I am in the process of gizmo-ing my Rio!!

I did read a story a while ago about someone who turned off lane assist and automatic braking but then had an accident. His insurers refused to pay up because they said he had removed important safety features from the vehicle.

The original Renault Zoe had an NCAP rating of 5. But last year the same vehicle scored bottom of the scale because it had not had electronic safety gizmos added over the intervening years. Whether you like them or not, many of the newer "driving aids" count to the NCAP rating of the vehicle. So we have to get used to them!!!

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