What's the disadvantages of towing a car?

[Kups]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

 

[gpat]

Back in 1990 I had one of the first - then new - Landrover Discovery - it had a V8 petrol engine with twin SU carbs, as I recall. Driven reasonably carefully I averaged about 15-16 mpg. But hang the caravan on the back and it dropped to 12 mpg.

Thankfully, it was a company car and I wasn't paying for the fuel. I used to visit the filling station rather too frequently. And I think my boss wondered if I was on the fiddle because of my petrol claims...

That's sound about right.

 

[the1andonly]

Ok. Depends on what we consider a lot. Without rewriting the laws of physics though, it cannot be insignificant. Let's say a smart car weighs 1000kgs. Add the trailer, let's say 250kg. That becomes the mass. Then factor in the drag and the resistance of the wheel bearings.

If you calculated the absolute minimum kinetic energy required for this( which would depend on the speed and the net gain in altitude) it's gonna be quite a lot. Compared to a 5t motorhome it will be less of course and as a percentage the more your rig uses the less it is as a percentage.

I'll stick to my view though. It's gonna be a lot. You don't get nothing for free. I reckon with my 2.3 Ducato it reduces my average mpg from about 28 to 22mph. If it's mountainous it's worse. I feel the pain.

Your'e going to have to do the physics and numbers to convince me. W'ell start with a towing mass of 1000kg no trailer ie significantly less width)
. I doubt there will be an increase in aerodynamic drag (any wind tunnel info to prove the opposite.)
not towing you will be travelling at 70MPH towing 60MPH dont forget to factor in that saving. IF you are seeing a vast difference then i suspect you have other issues

 

[Larrynwin]

Well I can reverse anything as good as the next guy but due to the geometry of a car I can not reverse a toad more than a few feet with any control and I have had a few different makes since 2010 it is simple shopping trolly effect,
and the videos of people trying to do it are just ridiculous pushing a vehicle backwards on full lock scrubbing along the ground, but obviously they don’t have the aptitude to realise what is happening you mention should be all you ever need

The few feet you mention should be all you ever need as I posted above when you need to shuffle in a tight spot eg petrol pumps. Anything more and you’re not watching where you’re going and not alert to potential problems ahead.
Again as I posted against the video never force a car backwards as damage could be done.
Half of the 15 years I have flat towed has been with 32’ and 30’ RVs and the rest with my present Hymer in all parts of the U.K. and ROI.
It’s down to every individual , some cannot reverse a car alone into a parking spot and for others it’s easy.

 

[Scotty Ian]

It isn't and wouldn't be legal if it was. You simply need to push harder - much harder. The electronic units have their own vacuum pumps so the servo functions as normal. Overrun systems rely on pulling hard on the brake pedal.

OK sounds good

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[offagen]

One point to mention for the OP's deliberations: It used to bother me slightly that I might not immediately know if the toad had suffered a full or partial flat. I addressed that a few years ago by fitting TyrePal sensors to the toad. All wireless, it has a repeater in the back of the van and tyre pressure/temperature display on the van's dashboard with warning sound. Just for peace of mind.

 

[RUBY'S DAD]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

In general i find towing a real pain from getting fuel to going onto a supermarket car park.I've had an RV for the last 10yrs and it was easier getting in and out of places than it is driving my 8mtr Autosleeper dragging a little Toyota IQ.I started towing 12 months ago after always carrying my my scooter on the back and as my wife got less happy about sitting on the back carrying a dog we decided a tow car was for us.Hitching up only takes 5 minutes and my 3ltr Merc doesn't struggle up long uphill stretches,i am abot 3 miles to the gallon worse off,great when i'm parked up to be able to tour the area but some sites charge me for having an extra vehicle,i far prefer my scooter option (weather permitting)

 

[Old and wise 1]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

It's so typical to get negative views on this forum.
What nonsense. I'm 78 and been towing my Smart car for 6 years. A-frame in UK and trailer in France. (If anyone wants to buy my trailer, let me know). Never had any issues in France on Aires with trailer. Of course you can reverse with an A-frame, if you are a competent driver. Slowly, and the occasional drive forward to correct. Use your brain to see possible problems ahead. A good rear view camera is a must (preferably 2). I've just arrived on the Isle of Wight via Red Funnel ferry. Piece of cake.
Ensure your car can be towed without damaging it. Make sure it's fitted with a 'breakaway' gadget. Should the car detach, it will apply the brakes automatically. The milage on my car doesn't register when being towed. Go for it. Good luck

 

[dunnah01]

I was pitched next a chap with a 5l Range Rover. He asked what mpg I got. I said about 45 without the caravan and drops to 35 with the van on. He said, you wanna get one of these mate. Don't even know I have the caravan on and it doesn't affect my mpg. Yeah right.

Neither Perpetual motion nor free energy exist.

To be fair the difference between 3mpg and 2.9mpg in a 5l RR would be hard to spot

 

[Neil S]

It's so typical to get negative views on this forum.
What nonsense. I'm 78 and been towing my Smart car for 6 years. A-frame in UK and trailer in France. (If anyone wants to buy my trailer, let me know). Never had any issues in France on Aires with trailer. Of course you can reverse with an A-frame, if you are a competent driver. Slowly, and the occasional drive forward to correct. Use your brain to see possible problems ahead. A good rear view camera is a must (preferably 2). I've just arrived on the Isle of Wight via Red Funnel ferry. Piece of cake.
Ensure your car can be towed without damaging it. Make sure it's fitted with a 'breakaway' gadget. Should the car detach, it will apply the brakes automatically. The milage on my car doesn't register when being towed. Go for it. Good luck

So what do you do on an aire with your trailer leave it hooked up

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[TonyEmm]

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

The trailer is not classed as an unbraked trailer. It’s classed as a braked trailer as the car has them fitted. As such it would be illegal for them not to work. The 750kg limit you refer to applies only to trailers that don’t have brakes fitted (catO1). obviously no5 applicable to TOADs.

 

[WillH]

Weighing up all the comments, we're not going down the toad route. Maybe a combination of hire cars in EU plus taxis and less cycling will be our next holiday formula.

My take on towing a car is buy a caravan and tow it with the car. We had a caravan for over 15 years and have motorhomed for 15, it depends entirely on how you tour. Currently using a couple of electric bikes (so long as my knee holds up) around the Gulf of Arcachon.

 

[TonyEmm]

OK I understand better. How does the bowden cable on the brake pedal work the car brakes if the car engine isn't running to provide hydraulic brake pressure to the car brakes ?

On an inertia system, the Bowden cable is activated by an over-run coupling, exactly the same as a caravan. The difference is that instead of full cable/rod operated brakes (caravan) on a toad, the cable pulls on the brake pedal.
The C&U regs require the system to meet a specified braking efficiency and as a rule, the car would need the servo operational to achieve this.

Inertia systems do not have a working servo therefore, therefore, while many will say they don’t find it an issue, it’s efficiency is questionable.

Try turning the engine and ignition off (except steering lock) then try pressing the brake pedal or turning the steering wheel, it’s immediately obvious how much more effort is required to achieve any effect!

 

[goin roamin]

My view with a Fiat 500 and the LNB system installed.

1. Not gone overseas yet, so no idea
2. MPG, about 1-2 MPG worse.
3. Speed whilst towing, 10 MPH Slower (if you stick to the limit)
4. Paranoid that there’s some nutter in a Fiat 500 right up yer arse!
5. You cannot reverse with a toad no matter how good you are.

Plan a bit ahead and it’s ace,

Jim

Why Can't you reverse I do it easily with no problem at all Just take it slow.

 

[Excaliber]

Whilst these forums can be really useful there are often a lot of negative comments from members who are either ignorant of the facts or have a bit of an agenda
I tow my VW Polo using a Towtal A frame which was fitted some 2 yrs ago with no issues, I have a jockey wheel on the A frame which means I can drive the car with A frame attached up to the hitch which is then just a matter of lowering the hitch onto the ball, this also is so much easier if in a tight spot, raise hitch with jockey disconnect electrics and breakaway cable, drIve away
My MPG is hardly different especially if using cruise control on longer road sections,
I have towed a caravan and it’s more stressful with a large white box behind an average tow car than sitting in a large white box in full control with better vision with a smaller TOAD tucked in behing
We commented just last weekend whilst out that at least 50% of motorhome we saw had a TOAD there’s definitely an increase using the system
Yes I do also use a trailer if taking one of my classic cars out as they have not been converted to A frame towing, but as has been mentioned it is a lot of hard graft with ramps and steadys and mucky ratchet straps,
TOAD every time for us

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[Mikeyv60]

Not at all , i hardly see any difference, around .2 per gallon , i have done a few thousand miles too.

You will use a lot of fuel

 

[Conniedriving]

If it’s illegal to use a Aframe in France . How come the French supply/make /fit and use Aframes in France

 

[Old and wise 1]

So what do you do on an aire with your trailer leave it hooked up

Of course. Never an issue.

 

[Mikeyv60]

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

Incorrect as with any trailer over 750kg it has to be braked. The towcar is turned into a trailer, own lights and braking so can be towed np, only limit is your tow vehicles towing capacity.

 

[Conniedriving]

Whilst these forums can be really useful there are often a lot of negative comments from members who are either ignorant of the facts or have a bit of an agenda
I tow my VW Polo using a Towtal A frame which was fitted some 2 yrs ago with no issues, I have a jockey wheel on the A frame which means I can drive the car with A frame attached up to the hitch which is then just a matter of lowering the hitch onto the ball, this also is so much easier if in a tight spot, raise hitch with jockey disconnect electrics and breakaway cable, drIve away
My MPG is hardly different especially if using cruise control on longer road sections,
I have towed a caravan and it’s more stressful with a large white box behind an average tow car than sitting in a large white box in full control with better vision with a smaller TOAD tucked in behing
We commented just last weekend whilst out that at least 50% of motorhome we saw had a TOAD there’s definitely an increase using the system
Yes I do also use a trailer if taking one of my classic cars out as they have not been converted to A frame towing, but as has been mentioned it is a lot of hard graft with ramps and steadys and mucky ratchet straps,
TOAD every time for us

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

My Toad is classed as a trailer it is braked (electric) and it 980kg

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[Ian Bosman]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

extra fuel as any caravanner will tell you when you have ton weight behind you.

 

[Ian Bosman]

My view with a Fiat 500 and the LNB system installed.

1. Not gone overseas yet, so no idea
2. MPG, about 1-2 MPG worse.
3. Speed whilst towing, 10 MPH Slower (if you stick to the limit)
4. Paranoid that there’s some nutter in a Fiat 500 right up yer arse!
5. You cannot reverse with a toad no matter how good you are.

Plan a bit ahead and it’s ace,

Jim

you are stuck with 60mph max as with caravans wgich are braked trailers so i presume the law is the same with a toad

 

[Larrynwin]

When I travel it’s my leisure time so speed restriction no issue and if fuel cost is marginally higher I guess affording a motorhome and car that extra fuel cost is totally insignificant.

 

[Shrimp]

As you say Aires are in or near a car park , and close to communities so a car is not needed as in U.K. we only ever take bikes when travelling in Europe.

We only use the car in UK, we don’t take it to France either!

 

[Scotty Ian]

Incorrect as with any trailer over 750kg it has to be braked. The towcar is turned into a trailer, own lights and braking so can be towed np, only limit is your tow vehicles towing capacity.

Apologies for any misunderstanding on my part. I couldn't get my head around how the car brakes could work while being towed on an A frame. I have since been educated by those that know far more than me. I should have researched the topic more before I made the dumb statement I did.

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[seasickstu]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

 

[seasickstu]

Fitting the proper A frame means you’re turning your car into a trailer along with motorhome reg plate and triangular reflectors, just got ours done. Check out info@armitages.uk in Yorkshire.

 

[minesapint]

We've had great fun electric biking but being realistic about our physical capability we're considering selling them and converting my wife's Toyota to a tow car, already have the tow bar installed. I can hire a bike if I need one.
We know the advantages of a tow car. So what are the disadvantages? Is it OK to stay on an aire with a tow car for instance? All comments gratefully accepted.

Hi, check out this site it is on Facebook, ((A Frames not Trailers in Europe)) and has much information about towing in Europe, many people are now A framing in Europe and the systems are even being built and fitted in Europe.
As for towing our car around we rarely leave home without it, we had a A frame system fitted by Tow A Frame ((https://towaframecom.business.site/)). We chose it because it is much lighter than previous overide braking system a frames we had used on our earlier toads.
The electronic braking system is excellent you do not feel any snatching on the brakes from the car at all, just steady braking.
Hope this helps.

​

 

[the1andonly]

The toad is classed as an unbraked trailer and is limited in weight to I think 750kg by uk law. I was contemplating towing my MX5 but it weighs 1200kg so a no no. Trailer would have been my only option but too expensive.

Forget the bit about unbraked trailer ,thats been covered.
The reason why most MX5s are not towable is because theres no structure at the front end, nothing to attach to and pull. Early models could be flat towed.

 

[minesapint]

A lot of French Aires are in or near a Car Park.
Almost impossible to reverse a car on an A frame, you have to un-couple, turn both vehicles round and re-couple!
Could be difficult for a single person to hitch up unless you have an all singing/all dancing A frame!

It is ans easy and very quick job to unhitch the car and move it, especially if you have a sliding arm A frame.

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[Reallyretired]

If it’s illegal to use a Aframe in France . How come the French supply/make /fit and use Aframes in France

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The same reason e-scooters are sold in the UK where their use is illegal. Its not illegal to sell them.