What premium to pay for premium brands

[Lucky]

Premium brand motorhomes cost more than budget brands, naturally. Dethleffs cost more than Sunlight, Rapido cost more than Itineo, Hymer cost more... and so on. Some folk see value in premium brands, others don't.

How do we objectively measure quality and allocate it a value? A glance at price lists shows us premium sells for more, but how much more is it worth paying for something we cannot quantify?

If you bought a premium brand, how did you determine what precisely was better about it compared with its budget alternative and how much extra you thought it worth it paying (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%)?

I guess resale values and prestiege might come in to some people's reckoning, but I'm particularly interested in what else makes us pay more for essentially the same product.

Any thoughts?

 

[funflair]

I thought Morelo's were the other way round the front bed is an option.

Yes it's a €2,490 option, strangely though most new vans you see on forecourts that are not customer orders have the bed in.

 

[jongood]

With a new one you can get it built to your specification, rather than buying someone else’s choice of goodies. We wanted an A-Class without the standard front drop down bed, which has been replaced with some very useful cupboards.

But what if I want one on a truck chassis? Like I've got now, 100k wouldn't even start it, not that I would even bother because I don't want all the gizmos, no adblue, the braking thing, stop start, acc, lane bonging, I want a robust and powerful motorhome that lets me decide, happily £100k can buy quite a lot on my spec.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Even in the short time we have been involved in the M.H. scene I have noticed on a few occasions buyers that have known exactly what they want, and specified that when ordering their brand new van, only a short while later to discover that they don't actually want what they got !! "Discretion is the better part of valour", and all that. If you have the decades of experience, you are more able to discern, the function from the form, specify and buy accordingly. Others just buy because it's reassuringly expensive, so it must be the "dogs danglies " right ?
Mike.

​

Mike

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Yes it's a €2,490 option, strangely though most new vans you see on forecourts that are not customer orders have the bed in.

Am I correct in thinking there is also an option of a bed layout i between the sofas Martin?

I know Concorde do this option.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[funflair]

Am I correct in thinking there is also an option of a bed layout i between the sofas Martin?

I know Concorde do this option.

I think you can get a table that drops right down to allow a cushion on top to make another bed but I was never interested in that option no no research.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I think you can get a table that drops right down to allow a cushion on top to make another bed but I was never interested in that option no no research.

What’s you backup sleeping arrangements then for when you upset Jen

 

[funflair]

What’s you backup sleeping arrangements then for when you upset Jen

I could move the scooter out of the garage for her I suppose, as long as its not raining that is of course and as a bonus she doesn't know how to open it from the inside

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I could move the scooter out of the garage for her I suppose, as long as its not raining that is of course and as a bonus she doesn't know how to open it from the inside

Saying that I nearly got trapped in my garage when a gust of wind nearly shut it with me in

Would be a waste of time trying to get Mrs CC to get me out as she never has her phone on her

Is there a button inside?

 

[funflair]

Saying that I nearly got trapped in my garage when a gust of wind nearly shut it with me in

Would be a waste of time trying to get Mrs CC to get me out as she never has her phone on her

Is there a button inside?

No

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[funflair]

Saying that I nearly got trapped in my garage when a gust of wind nearly shut it with me in

Would be a waste of time trying to get Mrs CC to get me out as she never has her phone on her

Is there a button inside?

Oh you mean you want to know how to get out if yours is the same as ours but your door locks were slightly different, you just need to give a tug on the outer cable that runs between the two locks, have a practice before you get stuck.

 

[Sandyt]

Brand Value is a complex topic and companies spend significant sums on developing, maintaining and protecting it. At the customer level we may lust after Brand X because of its perceived quality and the brand will sell to the emotions such as aspirations, sexiness, safety/security needs [for the young, aspiring parent looking for a product or service that emphasises protection for their loved ones etc]. But this 'froth'is underpinned by successful R&D to produce tangible products and services of high quality, durability, lightness etc; in short, the thing that makes you say, 'And that is what marks Brand X quality, the attention to detail' etc etc

In turn, the R&D has to then be translated into quality production processes so that we see the finished example of the quality product that makes the Brand so desirable. But this costs a huge amount for the motorhome industry with low volumes and high labour intensive processes. VAG is the largest car producer in the world and defrays its cost over a wide variety of brands to enable economies of scale to be achievd and shared components across its brands [common chassis for Passat & Skoda Octavia; Ford & PSA sharing engine technology development etc].

A range of products enables market segmentation to be used to pitch the true premium product with all the bells & whistles at the top of the range [produced in small numbers for exclusivity at a high premium price to cover the higher costs of the niche product, and to yield higher unit profits]; the mid range model to have some of the [major cost/size] components from the premium range [e.g. VW Passat/Skoda common chassis] but with slightly lower quality or fewer bells & whistles, with the mid-range products aimed at a higher volume customer base at a lower price than the premium range, but still with high profit margins; and thenon to the true Budget product that has the Brand badge, some top quality elements such as engine to support the Brand reputation for reliability and durability, but a decent number of the budget 'rigid, scratch prone plastic cab dashboard, less impressive than the higher specced Model X' etc to provide a model that enjoys the Brand reputation, attracts aspiring customers who can afford to get on the ladder. Prices will be very attractive to enable the aspirers to afford the purchase, with the quality high enough to retain loyalty and to encourage the aspirers to want to upgrade.

Spreading development costs across a range of products achieves economies of scale in production. Spreading the model range across several different market segments increases the customer base, and means that an economic downturn damaging one are of the customer base can be offset by the other, unaffected segments.

And all of this, and a lot of other factors, produce the quality product that cements the Brand reputation, that drives the sales, that produces the revenues and enables lower cost volume production, maximising cashflow and profitability to support leading R&D to start the 'virtuous circle all over again', ideally at a higher level, so that the Brand stays ahead of the opposition and creates high cost barriers to new competitiors, rather than resting on laurels and starting the spiral of failure. Thor owns Hymer owns Dethleffs, Burstners, Elddis etc to give a multi level range of perceived value for money/desirability at the particular price point that people wish to buy into and tade up within. The Brand Value is both perceptual and tangible, the latter evidenced by the increased business value derived from profitable trading. The 'Marketing Hype' has to be underpinned by quality products to makeus want to pay varying levels of premium to buy into the reputation and the actual product.

Our intended Sunlight M/Home purchase places us in the 'less well heeled' customer grouping according to the Practical Motorhome Review, i.e. aspirational cheapskates!

Steve & Elaine, your friendly neighbourhood paupers

Well done Steve & Elaine, a post that is worthy of a magazine article!

 

[Sandyt]

With a new one you can get it built to your specification, rather than buying someone else’s choice of goodies. We wanted an A-Class without the standard front drop down bed, which has been replaced with some very useful cupboards.

I absolutely agree with your strategy here, however there are times when the right van pops up with all the boxes ticked, including the A-Class without the front drop down bed, replaced by cupboards, a year old, and less than 4k miles. It was impossible to say no!

 

[Rumour and Innuendo]

I have to say, for us so far it is about perception. Unlike you rich bods, we have to buy second hand and we are currently looking for a Hymer around £20,000. It will be old and it will be someone else's wants and needs, but that is how it is. Our 27 year old Talbot was the same to see if we liked motorhoming after years of caravans, apartments and back to caravans, but it has been fun. It is small, old and noisy. We have to make up the bed every night and break down in the morning (our BIG bug!) But as others have said on here, it has enabled us to travel to all the places others have in their big new shiny motorhomes, but also to places some of the bigger ones can't.

Having said that, there is a lot of credence in the myths that grow up around brands. The small VW campervans for instance. All their popularity came from way back with the surfer image. Even today they are seen as surfer vans. And then there is us with our search for a Hymer. (We can still be swayed by other brands of a good build quality) The construction and winterisation is the thing here. But having read about Swift motorhomes and having owned two Swift caravans, not something I would consider.

But after all said and done, it is what you can afford and what you have been swayed by. Would we buy new? Hell yes! Cheaper bigger vehicle or more expensive but smaller? The latter, for hopefully better build quality. It's like cars. Do you buy the top range version of a BMW One Series? Or the bottom range of the Five Series? For me, the Five would win for the extra engineering going into a more expensive car. That is my perception, right or wrong.

So more expensive motorhome as long as there are no big sacrifices to be made.

 

[AndyVW]

But what if I want one on a truck chassis? Like I've got now, 100k wouldn't even start it, not that I would even bother because I don't want all the gizmos, no adblue, the braking thing, stop start, acc, lane bonging, I want a robust and powerful motorhome that lets me decide, happily £100k can buy quite a lot on my spec.


Truck chassis Rules... No Gizmo,s Chassis that handle empty and loaded ! Tyres that have more ply ratings than British motorhome wall thickness. No weight issues, for the Emelda Marcoss syndrome. More Electric options, than a Hybrid car.
Four fridges as you must have fresh ice with your Gin. Power ... Loads of it. ! Sleeps two, the kids can stay in the house !
It has never been stuck anywhere because of access, It is the Party bus. All for 50K, N&B, MAN.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Sapper520]

We went for a Sunlight a ‘budget’ van. I’ve been told several of my previous cars and motorcycles have been ‘budget’. My sons new £9k motorcycle is referred to as ‘budget’.

When is budget not budget?

Before our purchase we did extensive research on here and many others places. What became apparent is the vast majority are built on the same Fiat base vehicles....for both budget and premium.

Both budget and premium brands have just as many quality failures........unscientific I know, but just from my own research.

We could have gone for a Premium Brand secondhand, but chose to use the same amount of money to buy a brand new Budget van. The layout and extras would have been the same, whichever one we had chosen.

I understand the difference in quality products, but it appears (again, unscientific) that both types of products do just as well (or not so well depending on your view point) in the reliability stakes.

 

[Harvard]

We have a 2012 N&B Arto, came very close to changing to a Morelo 2 years ago. It had everything we wanted but decided we didn’t need any of those things. What we have does the job as well as the Morelo, however neither in the same style nor premium features but it does everything we need. Another factor was the Iveco, just didn’t like the driving noise compared to the Fiat. I’m sure you’d get used to it but over 50 mph relaxed talking is impossible. Considered both Concorde and Morelo and yes they are Premium plus in both price and features but for us the Arto is still the right one today. So for me Premium is not the ultimate, choose what fits your needs and the budget goes along with it.

 

[funflair]

We have a 2012 N&B Arto, came very close to changing to a Morelo 2 years ago. It had everything we wanted but decided we didn’t need any of those things. What we have does the job as well as the Morelo, however neither in the same style nor premium features but it does everything we need. Another factor was the Iveco, just didn’t like the driving noise compared to the Fiat. I’m sure you’d get used to it but over 50 mph relaxed talking is impossible. Considered both Concorde and Morelo and yes they are Premium plus in both price and features but for us the Arto is still the right one today. So for me Premium is not the ultimate, choose what fits your needs and the budget goes along with it.

Interesting Kevin, was it a Home or Loft that you tried? I understand that the drive is "different" compared to a Fiat chassis especially tandem axle but I wouldn't say that ours was noisy at all but never driven a Fiat, OK we have the option of extra sound insulation around the engine bay and full air suspension but in ours 50mph on a decent road is very quiet and certainly better than our 3 series BMW.

But you are right though whatever suits you is the rights van, and to be fair you hardly have a "bargain basement" van

 

[msb03]

As a relative newbie, my first consideration as purchasing a second hand one was my budget, then the layout that suited us. Then looked at what was available and compared all of them to see which one ticked the most boxes. When narrowed down to a few, checked out what concerns, horror stories etc owner's had had on various forums. I did discount a few Purely on the vibe I got from the salesman! Then purchased the one we liked best and felt right for us.

As expected there have been a couple of niggles, nothing major, and we've added some of the things that were on our would like to have list.

Now just looking forward to using it

 

[The Wino]

As a relative newbie, my first consideration as purchasing a second hand one was my budget, then the layout that suited us. Then looked at what was available and compared all of them to see which one ticked the most boxes. When narrowed down to a few, checked out what concerns, horror stories etc owner's had had on various forums. I did discount a few Purely on the vibe I got from the salesman! Then purchased the one we liked best and felt right for us.

As expected there have been a couple of niggles, nothing major, and we've added some of the things that were on our would like to have list.

Now just looking forward to using it

We did similar and as our first secondhand one was pretty good overall we bought a new one the same make a few years later which we still have 7 years on .