What do we want a UK aire and how much to pay?

[GJH]

I would argue that in the case of a campsite owner they have already made the investment, insofar as they will already have waste disposal facilities, water points, and (possibly) reception/late arrival parking. I would be quite happy to park overnight in a late arrival area for (say) £5-7 if I arrived after 5pm and left before 9am. What I won't do is pay normal campsite fees for a quick overnight stay and early morning departure that uses none of the additional facilities that I've had to pay for.

But why should the camp site owner offer such a reduced fee facility? The business model will be based on "normal" (for want of a better word) stays. Why should the camp site owner add such extra services/facilities (inevitably meaning extra resource input) unless there was sufficient extra business to make a profit from that input?

Camp sites, like any other business, are profit making concerns which try to offer services to a steady and reliable customer base, not to fringe customers who want something out of the ordinary. In that regard they are no different from any employee who would brindle at being expected to work extra hours for little or no extra reward simply to suit the whim of their employer.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Aires are not just for sleeping over they are rest areas, away from passing traffic. We are constantly reminded not to drive when tired yet there are very few places, apart from motorways, to stop in a motorhome - even laybys are few and far between - and then you 'rest' being buffeted by trucks and buses passing a few feet away.

 

[GJH]

Aires are not just for sleeping over they are rest areas, away from passing traffic. We are constantly reminded not to drive when tired yet there are very few places, apart from motorways, to stop in a motorhome - even laybys are few and far between - and then you 'rest' being buffeted by trucks and buses passing a few feet away.

But, as you said previously, unlike France we just don't have enough land. The point with this country is that it is small enough to plan overnight rest stops at CLs/CSs. During the daytime there are a surprising number of car parks where one can stop for a few hours - over 1600 on my PoI set for example.

 

[scotjimland]

Pub owners should make it known if they are happy for us to use their carparks - a simple sign - a motorhome symbol like those used in France for instance.

I know there are sites that show pubs that allow motorhomers but if each pub could decide for itself and just put up a sign it would help both the pub and us - nothing organised - [HI]just put up a sign![/HI]

Doing it ad hoc is one thing, advertising is quite another....

To allow overnight camping they must have an exemption certificate issued by one of the issuing clubs as issued by DEFRA (Department of Environment, Food & Rural Affairs) and one of the conditions is that the sites must be for the exclusive use of members only and limited to 5 units with length of stay restrictions. There are actually about 15 clubs that hold paragraph 5 exemptions and therefore can set up a CL network.

Allowing people to camp without an exemption certificate would put them at risk of prosecution which could lead to loss of their license .. So it's not quite as simple as that..

Many pubs are leased and tied to breweries, perhaps they could be approached with the idea .. but I wouldn't hold my breath, there would be little if any financial benefit with many potential problems .. ie unwelcome guests staying longer than welcome.. so I think that's a non starter.

Also, if you are parking at a pub it is only cheaper if you were planning on having a drink and a meal out .. not cheap these days, so it's not cheap parking .. 2 drinks + 2 pub snacks / meals .. how much ? at least £12 .. probably closer to £20 .. with a family, double that.

What this really all boils down to is money... not lack of sites, motorhoming is an expensive hobby and site fees should be factored in before purchase, not as an after thought ..

 

[Landy lover]

We prefer the latter.
I think sites should charge each unit whether it be tent MH or caravan , for the electric they use too. That way the ones that use lots pay more than the ones that use hardly any .
They should also charge for the wash rooms , kitchen areas , everything extra to the bit of ground your put on .

We dont use any of them , just water and waste, so it would make it so much cheaper

I understand your thoughts but look at it from the point of view of the owners. They have paid for the facilities and maded available for your benefit - whether you use them or not is academic - they still need cleaning, heating, decorating, etc . That cost has to be recouped from somewhere. Another issue many CL sites are finding is that many campers are 'wilding' then spend one or two nights on a CL to tidy up - do their washing - recharge batteries - long hot showers - dump and clean tanks, etc etc before going off wilding again so using all facitilities to the max. I totally agree with EHU being on meter but I think if you check up on this there are some rules on 'selling' electricity which restricts this practice.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Barclaybasher]

But, as you said previously, unlike France we just don't have enough land. The point with this country is that it is small enough to plan overnight rest stops at CLs/CSs. During the daytime there are a surprising number of car parks where one can stop for a few hours - over 1600 on my PoI set for example.

I was talking about taking a short break on the road, not stopping for more than time to have a cup of tea. There are just not enough laybys that are not next to the road - those that feel like you've stopped on the hard shoulder are certainly not relaxing - the powers that be tell us to take a break - but where?

 

[GJH]

I was talking about taking a short break on the road, not stopping for more than time to have a cup of tea. There are just not enough laybys that are not next to the road - those that feel like you've stopped on the hard shoulder are certainly not relaxing - the powers that be tell us to take a break - but where?

To be honest we haven't noticed a problem with stopping for a short tea/coffee break. Many of our journeys are so short, a couple of hours or so, that we don't need to stop. Perhaps it is related to the fact that, living on Teesside, we often use major roads.

Apart from motorway services we've found a number of places to stop - Elkersley on the A1 and Dodworth on the A628 two which spring readily to mind.

If you Google <just off the motorway> there are quite a few places listed.

 

[scotjimland]

I understand your thoughts but look at it from the point of view of the owners. They have paid for the facilities and maded available for your benefit - whether you use them or not is academic - they still need cleaning, heating, decorating, etc . That cost has to be recouped from somewhere. Another issue many CL sites are finding is that many campers are 'wilding' then spend one or two nights on a CL to tidy up - do their washing - recharge batteries - long hot showers - dump and clean tanks, etc etc before going off wilding again so using all facitilities to the max. I totally agree with EHU being on meter but I think if you check up on this there are some[HI] rules on 'selling' electricity which restricts this practice[/HI].

Agree 100%

Re meters, It is illegal to resell at a profit.. totally legal to meter and charge at the supplied cost ..

Our friends who own a CL now have metered leccy .. as do several other UK sites.. prier to fitting they were losing money big time because people were abusing the leccy, (i've paid so I'll use as much as I damn well want attitude ) now fitted they make a small profit ..

Metering is by far the fairest way to charge and the cost of installing is not prohibitive.. they can be fitted in the existing EHU post ..

 

[vwalan]

hi burstner.just a note .imagine being a truck driver who is restricted by law how long he/she can drive for . they have to stop ,or loose their licence.
not knocking you but a truck driver also needs more space to park or stop the night . it does get harder the bigger the truck. try stopping at a service station . they charge . even for swapping trailers in some instances . its a hard life on the road . truck tramping is far harder than a motor home.

 

[Reallyretired]

If I'm going North I usually use the A1. There are loads of laybys on the non-motorway bits. Trouble is there seem to be more and more motorway bits.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Craig Rogers]

UK Aires won't work because the british people have a different mindset to the jolly foreigners.

Aires in France are setup by local councils and correct me if I'm wrong, but someone usually has great pleasure in the community looking after it as it benefits the local area.

In the UK, you'll find it hard to find someone who cares like this to keep it tidy. Just visit your local parking layby. The british public/councils can't maintain these so have little hope in maintaining an Aire.

It'll end up just like your local community childrens play area. They get demanded by the locals for somewhere for the children to play safely, eventually it'll be built, then in no time at all it's ruined and nobody maintains it, then the council decommission it.

It's just a sad way that we are in the UK. Little community spirit these days and nobody wants people in their local community, especially those in big MHs ruining the environment and clogging up their pretty little village streets whilst they all sit in their houses watching re-runs of Eastenders wondering why the local community is going downhill and all the local shops are closing.........

Plus then you have the easy opt out. "It'll be overrun by travellers", well, yes, but not if it's run right..........nobody wants to run it.

 

[laneside]

UK Aires won't work because the british people have a different mindset to the jolly foreigners.

Aires in France are setup by local councils and correct me if I'm wrong, but someone usually has great pleasure in the community looking after it as it benefits the local area.

In the UK, you'll find it hard to find someone who cares like this to keep it tidy. Just visit your local parking layby. The british public/councils can't maintain these so have little hope in maintaining an Aire.

It'll end up just like your local community childrens play area. They get demanded by the locals for somewhere for the children to play safely, eventually it'll be built, then in no time at all it's ruined and nobody maintains it, then the council decommission it.

It's just a sad way that we are in the UK. Little community spirit these days and nobody wants people in their local community, especially those in big MHs ruining the environment and clogging up their pretty little village streets whilst they all sit in their houses watching re-runs of Eastenders wondering why the local community is going downhill and all the local shops are closing.........

Plus then you have the easy opt out. "It'll be overrun by travellers", well, yes, but not if it's run right..........nobody wants to run it.

Very very sad but afraid Craig has put the problem into a nutshell

 

[aba]

i think it all comes down to greed and selfishness.

there are a lot of people out in the country that are so greedy and selfish that they just want everything all to themselves.

the its my village and i don't want all theses out of towners spoiling my view types.
and the well yes you can come here but its going to cost you £££££££££.

a wise man once told me " you can have a little bit for a long time or a big bit once "

 

[magicsurfbus]

Camp sites, like any other business, are profit making concerns which try to offer services to a steady and reliable customer base, not to fringe customers who want something out of the ordinary.

To my mind, offering low cost 12hr overnight parking (say 20:00 - 08:00) in existing but unused parking capacity near the campsite entrance would be a means of supplementing the business's income rather than adding to is costs, especially if the site enjoyed a prime location near to a main touring route, or close to a ferry port.

One site we visited near Lake Garda offered two overnight rates - one for a small grassy pitch with shade, and a lower rate to park in a marked bay on a tarmac car park outside the entrance barrier. That struck me as a business that was prepared to gain by diversifying the service on offer. They also had a prime location within walking distance of two theme parks.

On the subject of theme parks, Disneyland Paris, Parc Puy du Fou, Parc Futuroscope, and Europa Park all have overnight motorhome parking areas to attract and accommodate extra visitors. Does Alton Towers? Of course not, it's British.

 

[GJH]

To my mind, offering low cost 12hr overnight parking (say 20:00 - 08:00) in existing but unused parking capacity near the campsite entrance would be a means of supplementing the business's income rather than adding to is costs, especially if the site enjoyed a prime location near to a main touring route, or close to a ferry port.

One site we visited near Lake Garda offered two overnight rates - one for a small grassy pitch with shade, and a lower rate to park in a marked bay on a tarmac car park outside the entrance barrier. That struck me as a business that was prepared to gain by diversifying the service on offer. They also had a prime location within walking distance of two theme parks.

Usage of an area would have to be managed - extra staff costs.
Is the "parking capacity" actually unused or is it a late night arrivals area (with a different purpose)?
The Lake Garda site obviously has its business model and, one would expect, because of an established demand (proximity to them parks perhaps). That doesn't necessarily apply to other sites.

On the subject of theme parks, Disneyland Paris, Parc Puy du Fou, Parc Futuroscope, and Europa Park all have overnight motorhome parking areas to attract and accommodate extra visitors. Does Alton Towers? Of course not, it's British.

Not because it's British but because it would have to obtain a caravan site licence and, most probably, hasn't established a sufficient demand to warrant the expense of doing so. To check, though, why not contact them and suggest they should do so, just to see what they say?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wildman]

No matter what site owners pay to set up a CL, and I assure you it is not a cheap exercise. There will always be someone who objects to paying. When I set up my CL I found a lot of funsters thought it wrong for me to charge at all. Despite the fact that our charges are the lowest in the area by around 60%.
We have a basic charge and thats it, no extras because that is one of the main things I hated when going to other sites. The CL owner will always be on a good hiding to nothing, business rates have to be paid even if no one stays on site, as do water and sewerage rates, emptying a septic tank is not cheap either. Yet people still find the time to bemoan the cost of CL's. Wild park, wildcamp by all means, I do all the time and don't have a problem with it. But remember someone has to pay to take away your rubbish and effluent if you leave it on their land so do expect to pay. Safe parking in a tourist area is at a premium. Woolacombe charge £5 for a few hours parking during the peak season. Town centre carparks all over Devon and Cornwall can cost up to £10 a day. Sure there are free places to park just depends what you want and where you want it. I guess. French style aires would have to be set up by local councils. I just don't see it happening for free. Private sites will always have to charge as they do not have the infrastructure needed to service a site.

 

[philk]

what do we want

Wildman, based on your experience I am sure you are correct. But as ever, topics wander and loose their focus. The campsite is a given, its there and running. I am returning in a couple of weeks and said I would ask you lot your views. Some have given them some have given views on planning issues, but the average seems to be £6.32 for a nice quiet stop on a hardstanding on a campsite with waste and fresh. Also a willingness to pay for extras.
Phil