What’s Gadget John talking about ? 🥴 (2 Viewers)

[Otter Spotter]

Why hasn’t this voltage issue on Lithium batteries been mentioned before ? Is it actually an issue ?

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Yes there can be a concern for some kit that is designed around a specific voltage.

Lead acid battery, fully charged is max 12.6V.

Many devices will cut off if voltage drops below 11.7V -11.8-V, to protect them and battery. But they don't have overvolt protection.

Lithium runs upto 13.6V. A big proportionate increase over lead acid standards.

Too high, too low and it can put too much current through which overheats. I can see this in my van where LED lighting straps are failing. I expect there will be other electronics, especially those with chips in them that are sensitive.

 

[PP Bear]

3.20 seconds in and I was bored zzz sorry, but don’t know the answer

 

[Carpmart]

The only thing I’ve put a voltage regulator in line to (in the MoHo) is the TP Link router. It wants a clean 12v as it’s expecting to be mains powered via a regulator..

Most (not all) things designed to work at nominal 12v will be perfectly happy with a fully charged lithium @ 14 odd volts. If you run normal LA bats, when charging they can easily be seeing 14v..

Not looked at the Gadget John video as he makes me slightly nauseous!

 

[Steve N Tracy]

As the onboard charger charges at around 13.7v for standard batteries and up to 14.8 for AGM, I don't see a problem always run thing while plugged in on charge no with issues.

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[ChrisL]

As per Carpmart the only device I have that requires a stabilised 12v supply is my ZTE router, all other 12v devices are working fine from my lithium battery including the internal led spot lights.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Some LED bulbs and strips have voltage regulators built in. The ones that don't tend to run hot at 13.5v which is what a van charger will maintain at.

 

[Guigsy]

If your battery is full and your alternator is running, or your solar is getting full summer rays, the system will see a lot more than 12.6v. In an automotive environment, lithium batteries have a high resting point, but the range of voltages is still within the range of voltages you'd see with lead acid. So pretty much everything should be fine.

Adding a regulator is a waste of energy (yours and electrical) in my opinion

 

[ChrisL]

Adding a regulator is a waste of energy (yours and electrical) in my opinion

Some devices will not work with an unregulated supply, these are normally ones that are designed to work from a 240/12v transformer, they will either not work if they have overvoltage protection or will fry if they do not have overvoltage protection, think of it like a 12/24v laptop supply, it takes the vehicle voltage and transforms it into the voltage required by the laptop, a regulated 12v supply works in a similar way.

 

[Guigsy]

Some devices will not work with an unregulated supply, these are normally ones that are designed to work from a 240/12v transformer, they will either not work if they have overvoltage protection or will fry if they do not have overvoltage protection, think of it like a 12/24v laptop supply, it takes the vehicle voltage and transforms it into the voltage required by the laptop, a regulated 12v supply works in a similar way.

If it's designed to work in an automotive environment, it should be fine with the higher charged voltage of lithium. An alternator can kick out more than 14v.

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[Pausim]

Why hasn’t this voltage issue on Lithium batteries been mentioned before ?

Because it has nothing to do with lithium batteries. As already mentioned AGM batteries involve higher charging voltages than lithium.

Is it actually an issue ?

Not as far as I am concerned. I had lithium in my previous 2 motorhomes and had no voltage related failures in either of them.

He blames the problems with his heating and other devices on the higher voltage of his lithium battery. My Truma heating has a safe operating voltage range of 11V to 15V. Lithium batteries operate at less than 15V. All motorhome kit designed to run on a nominal 12V should have similar safe operating ranges.

I am not going to watch more than the intro because I know he will just annoy me and I might end up saying something that gets me sent to a Cathedral City in the Midlands.

 

[ChrisL]

If it's designed to work in an automotive environment, it should be fine with the higher changed voltage of lithium. An alternator can kick out more than 14v.

Yes, I agree, but it is possible to use domestic 12v devices in a motorhome but you may need a regulated supply if you do. I speak from first hand experience.

 

[meanders]

Some devices will not work with an unregulated supply, these are normally ones that are designed to work from a 240/12v transformer,

Really? There are very, very few devices that use a transformer these days. Most will be power supply units based around electronics. Transformers are heavy.

 

[Bertilak]

Adding a regulator is a waste of energy (yours and electrical) in my opinion

Maxxfans were known to toast their control circuits if run on too high a voltage, whether from Li, Solar or B2B. (May have been sorted on latest deliveries...?) Humble Road has a whole youtube on the subject...
C£10 to fit a regulator seems worthwhile insurance against having to plead for, or buy, a replacement PCB, to save a £300 fan. Even if it shouldn't be necessary and is poor product design.
And lots of your other electronics would probably benefit.

 

[Peavy]

I recently installed one of those to power the Maxxfan, because it used to be sensible to higher voltage. I believe this is not the case anymore, but better safe than sorry with that expensive thing.

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[Guigsy]

Yes, I agree, but it is possible to use domestic 12v devices in a motorhome but you may need a regulated supply if you do. I speak from first hand experience.

Agreed. I used 12v domestic LEDs in my previous van to replace incandescent bulbs. The one in the loo kept dieing... Took me a while to realise that I was using it in the day (no window, it was dark) so it was seeing much more than 12v when the solar was running. Meanwhile, the LEDs in the kitchen were fine because they generally only got used when it was dark.

I switched them up automotive LEDs that were fine up to 15v. No further issues.

Edit: to be clear, this was with a lead acid battery.

 

[ChrisL]

Really? There are very, very few devices that use a transformer these days. Most will be power supply units based around electronics. Transformers are heavy.

Apologies if my terminology is inaccurate, I wasn't referring to the big old transformers of yesteryear, I was referring to the modern equivalent, a device that transforms domestic AC mains supply into a lower voltage DC supply.

 

[meanders]

Yes. Usually switched mode (SMPS) but some are Linear (LPS) that are used where low noise on the circuit is vital but are much less efficient. They are heavier and bulkier than a SMPS of equivalent spec, but give a cleaner output if viewed on an oscilloscope.

 

[DT]

Apparently if he or others promote a product for 2-3mins in their video they can keep it. Many do that and then sell, very nice it it’s a £1k bike. If the complete video is about the product they can be paid a very tidy amount sometimes more that all YT earnings for a month. Wonder what the taxman does about this ? Bob Earnshaw did a video at the end of the year and I think his YT earnings were like £16k not bad for driving up and down the UK.

 

[the1andonly]

Some devices will not work with an unregulated supply, these are normally ones that are designed to work from a 240/12v transformer, they will either not work if they have overvoltage protection or will fry if they do not have overvoltage protection.

Many Telys are 12v feed by a box it is feasible to feed them 12v direct but they may need regulating or at least not powered by a running engine. A simple inline 7812 regulator could do the job (google for circuit) for specific devices.
PS ive not watched the video. Don't expect i've missed anything important.

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[Pausim]

Don't expect i've missed anything important.

How not to do it?

 

[Jim]

Apparently if he or others promote a product for 2-3mins in their video they can keep it. Many do that and then sell, very nice it it’s a £1k bike. If the complete video is about the product they can be paid a very tidy amount sometimes more that all YT earnings for a month. Wonder what the taxman does about this ?

Social media influencers should not dupe their audience into believing they are a customer of the brand, rather than a promoter. It is unfair trading, and both the influencer and the product seller risk prosecution from the Advertising Standards Authority.

So most of these influencers admit that an item is a loan or has been gifted for a review. But there is no issue here, they do earn those items, they don't get them for nothing.

Anyone who has attempted to make videos that people will watch and build a following, will know what hard work it is and how much time it involves. As for the taxman, an individual's tax return is between him and HMRC.

 

[Guigsy]

Many Telys are 12v feed by a box it is feasible to feed them 12v direct but they may need regulating or at least not powered by a running engine. A simple inline 7812 regulator could do the job (google for circuit) for specific devices.
PS ive not watched the video. Don't expect i've missed anything important.

Many TVs are designed to run on an external mains to 12v supply that would give them a much cleaner feed then you'd get from an automotive socket. So unless it's designed to take the large range you'd expect in a van (regardless of the battery type), then yeah, you should probably fit a regulator.

 

[autorouter]

Really? There are very, very few devices that use a transformer these days. Most will be power supply units based around electronics. Transformers are heavy.

You and I know what a 'transformer' is technically, but the modern usage of 'transformer' on the internet is anything that converts one voltage to another, DC or AC, especially if it is a brick in the middle of a wire. They almost all use switch mode technology, not the old transformer-rectifier-smoother technology.

 

[meanders]

I agree but the misuse of the term doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected if likely to cause confusion. Wallwart, PSU, and power supply are also terms used but less like likely to confuse. Someone searching for a 230v to 12v "transformer" is likely to find something like https://www.improducts.co.uk/product/transformer-230-12v-150va/ . Potentially worrying if they don't understand it would need rectifying and smoothing first, and also open mains connections.

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[autorouter]

If GJ just said that he fitted one of these regulators, and it apparently solved problem X or Y, then fine. But he rambles on about the reasons why it's necessary, when he has obviously no clue about any of the technicalities. He doesn't seem to know that flooded and Gel lead-acid batteries have the same charging voltage as lithium, and AGM batteries are higher. He doesn't know what a 'buck converter' is.

The problem arises because '12V' devices are fitted in motorhomes which have an automotive nominal 12V which can vary widely from 9V to 20V, and in some situations even to 60V for a few seconds. Accessories for automotive use are designed to cope with this, but devices that run from a mains-powered 'transformer' brick will either shut down if you are lucky, or burn out if you are not.

You probably would not even dream of connecting a 5V USB device directly to the 12V supply, and wouldn't expect a laptop requiring 19V to work directly off a 12V supply. You would use something to convert the voltage to whatever the device needs. Similarly devices like routers, fans, LEDs etc may require a supply of 11.5V to 12.5V, so a regulator to provide this is a very good idea.

I have one of these regulators on the water pump - it curbs its overenthusiasm when the voltage is high, and keeps its spirits up when the voltage gets a bit low. I would have one for my router, but it's an industrial grade Teltonika, working on anything from 8V to 60V.

 

[Pausim]

I agree but the misuse of the term doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected if likely to cause confusion. Wallwart, PSU, and power supply are also terms used but less like likely to confuse. Someone searching for a 230v to 12v "transformer" is likely to find something like https://www.improducts.co.uk/product/transformer-230-12v-150va/ . Potentially worrying if they don't understand it would need rectifying and smoothing first, and also open mains connections.

The dictionary definition of a transformer is
“a device that changes the voltage or other characteristic of electrical energy as it moves from one circuit to another”.
Technical definitions may vary from this but I think you will have to forgive the non-technical general public for using the term transformer as it is defined by dictionaries without regarding it as misuse.

 

[Carpmart]

The dictionary definition of a transformer is
“a device that changes the voltage or other characteristic of electrical energy as it moves from one circuit to another”.
Technical definitions may vary from this but I think you will have to forgive the non-technical general public for using the term transformer as it is defined by dictionaries without regarding it as misuse.

I thought Transformers were ‘robots in disguise’!

 

[Two on Tour]

I recently installed one of those to power the Maxxfan, because it used to be sensible to higher voltage. I believe this is not the case anymore, but better safe than sorry with that expensive thing.
View attachment 921809

I rang the UK importer for Maxxfan before I fitted a Maxxfan Deluxe to our van a few weeks ago, and they confirmed that the Maxxfan is still susceptible to over voltage and that an updated control board would likely be fitted to new Maxxfan's later in the year, so I fitted a voltage stabiliser to our Maxxfan.

 

[ianto999]

Is this a problem if the power comes via an EBL rather than directly from battery? I’m assuming that the EBL does some form of voltage control?

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