Votronic DCDC charger - need for separate -cable? (1 Viewer)

[Pedersen]

Hey

I am installing a Votronic VCC 1212-90A DCDC charger together with a EBL99 according to this wiring diagram.
I have a Globecar (Fiat ducato 2016) with metal chassis all around.

I am wondering if I need to mount a separate cable between -Start and -Bord as indicated with a dotted line below?

An do I need a 60A relay or is it ok with a 20A or 30A relay here?

Rune

 

[gerry mcg]

I fitted a Votronic VCC1250 B2B to my globecar 600L with a EBL119

Fitting Votronic VCC1212-50 B2B to EBL119

I'm in the process of fitting a Votronic 1212-50 B2B to my EBL119 equipped Globecar in anticipation of fitting a 200Ah KS Energy LiFePO4 under driver seat battery I'm planning on getting an Auto electrician to wire the B2B through the EBL as per the wiring diagram below and the EBL119 wiring...

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I fitted a ground cable between the -ive leisure battery terminal and -ive Engine battery - i think it is not necessary, but recommended as it guaranteed a better chassis ground.

Could you check my B2B 12v setup diagram please

hello there I'm just about to wire up my 12v set up in a micro build vw caddy (not smart alternator) i have a renogy 20A B2B charger and renogy 100ah lithium smart battery 6 way fuse box running small 15l alpicool compressor fridge a 2kw diesel heater 4 led downlights a couple of usb sockets...

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I didn’t need any relay.
I kept it simple and disconnected the input from the cab battery from the EBL and wired the B2B directly to the Leisure battery

Wiring Votronic B2B through an EBL119

Apologies for the long post, but I’m looking for a bit of assistance wiring my Votronic VCC1212-50 B2B via my EBL119. ive had some electrical gremlins since it was wired by my local auto electrician, and ive removed it until i can get to the bottom of things. i have an EBL119, so if i...

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Please also take note of my electrical near miss

Electrical Near Miss - Melted 80A fuse

I’m posting this for discussion as to what might have happened as a near miss on my electrical system following my B2B install I’m at a bit of a loss to be honest - so please feel free to discuss. this is an 80A fuse (bought from amazon? that i put in in place of a 50A fuse in the starter...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Pedersen]

Thanks for a good reply.

When you disconnected the input from the cab battery from the EBL, how did that effect the charging of the starter battery when on EHU?

Have you had any problems with too much heat generated from the DCDC charger when mounted like bellow? Effecting EBL and cables nearby?

And I also got a reply form Votronic today regarding the extra ground cable:
“If there is a common earth connection between the two batteries, no separate connection is required between the negative terminals.”

Are there any downsides to installing a new cable between the -Start and -Bord battery, even if it is not necessary?

 

[gerry mcg]

I have a VanBitz Battery Master fitted that trickle charges the cab battery from the habitation battery via the EBL.

I've had no issues with heat from B2B affecting the cables or EBL.

I note you are planning to use a vcc1212-90, rather than the vcc1212-50 I installed. Could this perhaps place undue strain on your alternator? The purpose of the B2B is to limit the demand on the alternator, as lithium would take as much charge as the alternator can provide.
I have a 205Ah LiFePO4 leisure battery and the vcc1212-50 is perfectly adequate for my needs. A larger B2B will be more expensive and need larger gauge cables

 

[autorouter]

When you disconnected the input from the cab battery from the EBL, how did that effect the charging of the starter battery when on EHU?

The charging of the starter battery when on EHU is not affected. On Schaudt EBLs, there is a separate wire to the starter battery with a 20A fuse that supplies the fridge 12V heater element when the engine is running. When the engine is stopped, that wire is used to trickle-charge the starter battery when on EHU. That wire is also used by the EBL to measure the starter battery voltage.

The thick wire to the B1 connection on the EBL only supplies the feed for the battery separator relay (aka split charge relay), it doesn't do anything else. So you can disconnect it completely. Even easier, just pull the 50A fuse on that wire near the starter battery.

Some other brands of fusebox use the wire for other functions like the fridge or trickle-charging, so a 60A relay is required to reconnect it when the engine stops, as in your diagram. But for a Schaudt EBL it's not necessary.

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[rod_vw]

Remember if you have a smart alternator and a battery monitor module attached to the -ve pole of the engine battery there should NEVER be anything else connected directly to the engine battery -ve pole.

 

[Pedersen]

I note you are planning to use a vcc1212-90, rather than the vcc1212-50 I installed. Could this perhaps place undue strain on your alternator? The purpose of the B2B is to limit the demand on the alternator, as lithium would take as much charge as the alternator can provide.
I have a 205Ah LiFePO4 leisure battery and the vcc1212-50 is perfectly adequate for my needs. A larger B2B will be more expensive and need larger gauge cables

I have a 2016 Duacto with a 150A alternator and my vanusage are during the late autumn months chasing storms and waves. So I landed on a 90A charger (and no solar) after recommendations from the local supplier whos experience was that the Ducato don’t use a lot of amps during driving compared to other models. There where an offer so almost the same price for the 70A and the 90A.

They recommended up to 60% off the alternator output as fine on the 2016 Ducato.

They also recommended one size bigger cables then in the manual, so I am going for 35 mm2 all the way. And also 35 mm2 between the two Lithium batteries inn parallel but I see several vanbuilds who use 55 mm2 between batteries so maybe I should upgrade even more here?

 

[gerry mcg]

Remember if you have a smart alternator and a battery monitor module attached to the -ve pole of the engine battery there should NEVER be anything else connected directly to the engine battery -ve pole.

Fair point, i think as long as you connect to the shunt, as opposed to the actual negative terminal one would be OK
In ref. it the OP situation, the 2016 Ducato (even Euro6) that came in to post Sept 2016 builds do not have a smart alternator - so not a concern. (FWIW, i have a sept 2016 build Globecar that was one of the first Euro6 Ducatos) as the Euro 6 builds began after the August 16 summer factory shutdown

 

[Pedersen]

The charging of the starter battery when on EHU is not affected. On Schaudt EBLs, there is a separate wire to the starter battery with a 20A fuse that supplies the fridge 12V heater element when the engine is running. When the engine is stopped, that wire is used to trickle-charge the starter battery when on EHU. That wire is also used by the EBL to measure the starter battery voltage.

The thick wire to the B1 connection on the EBL only supplies the feed for the battery separator relay (aka split charge relay), it doesn't do anything else. So you can disconnect it completely. Even easier, just pull the 50A fuse on that wire near the starter battery.

Some other brands of fusebox use the wire for other functions like the fridge or trickle-charging, so a 60A relay is required to reconnect it when the engine stops, as in your diagram. But for a Schaudt EBL it's not necessary.

Excellent information, thank you very much.

And I am wondering why Votronic recommend a relay together with EBL when it sound like a much better and safer solution to disconnect the cable totally.

 

[gerry mcg]

I just wired it like so, bypassing the EBL.
I added a Victron IP22 15A mains charger that has a specific lithium charging profile, connected directly to the leisure battery rather than rely on the non lithium LEad / AGM charging profile of the EBL119